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Featured Should the minimum wage be hiked?

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by mukk_in, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Aquila0121

    Aquila0121 Brother In Christ

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    You and I know that these are supposed to be entry level jobs. However, the reality is that an increasing number of older people, parents, and even college graduates are landing minimum wage jobs. Just walk through a local Burger King or Taco Bell. At least half of the staff are not entry level workers. They are mothers, fathers, and even grandparents. Many of them are making minimum wage, and some working just above minimum wage which provides minimum budgetary impact against the cost of living. The individuals I mentioned I know personally. Another trend in these McJobs is that they work you just under full time, which allows them to not have to provide any benefits or medical insurance.

    A lot of people have a main job that pays a little above minimum wage, but even that wage isn't enough to make ends meet with the cost of living in some places, so they also work at McDonald's or Taco Bell as a second job because of the flexibility to make ends meet. I know an Assistant Manager of a Pet Store that only makes $9.50 an hour. She works at Lucent VR for minimum wage to supplement her income because not even $9.50 an hour is enough to sustain a household.

    Again, this is very bad for the family and when they are too old to work we will see the rise of shanty towns in America once more.
     
  2. FenderTL5

    FenderTL5 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not for someone working minimum wage.
    Today, there is not one U.S. state, metropolitan area, or county in which a minimum wage worker who clocks 40 hours a week can afford a two-bedroom apartment.
    Community college is an expense too far when you can't pay for housing, and food, and transportation.
     
  3. Aquila0121

    Aquila0121 Brother In Christ

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    Even the idea that minimum wage jobs should be "entry level" is technically hogwash. The President who helped establish the minimum wage, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, stated:

    “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”

    The minimum wage was intended to be a bare minimum living wage.
     
  4. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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  5. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Yes, the minimum wage in WV needs to be increased. I just don’t think smaller businesses here are in a position to make a jump to $15/hour as has been done elsewhere. Example, a Reuben sandwich is $8.00 at Mountain State Brewing in Morgantown. The same sandwich is $12 at Pyramid Brewing in Seattle. Can Morgantown increase to Seattle-level wages without raising prices? Probably not. So prices either increase or businesses close, and if prices increase they may close anyway.

    BTW, the Reuben at Mountain State is excellent!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  6. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    In West Virginia’s defense, there are parts of the state that are doing very well. The Morgantown area, home of WVU, is a major pharmaceutical and education town. The eastern panhandle is likewise doing well. It is the rest of the state, southern WV and the western panhandle, that is an economic disaster.
     
  7. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi archivist,

    Thanks for the recommendation. I've never been to Morgantown. My father, as a representative for Celina insurance 40 years ago has been in that area a number of times, but as I said, he's long dead now.

    I do agree with you that $15/hr across the board nationwide is not a wise amount. That should be for local municipalities or states to choose. I, like you, am just considering that $7.75 is just too low and out of touch with the reality of the cost of living.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  8. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi archivist,

    Not having been to the state since my father's funeral, and only then for a short 3 day stay in S. Charleston, I'll have to defer to your knowledge on the state of WV economy. All I know, as far as current situation, is what I read about it. However, I'm not familiar with a 'western' panhandle. I know there's an eastern one that bounds against Maryland and the northern 'chimney' that squeezes between PA and OH. which is where, I believe, Morgantown and Wheeling are situated. When I lived in Huntington and Charleston, I don't remember any of that area being called a panhandle.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  9. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Wheeling is in the western panhandle. Morgantown is in the northern part of the state near the PA border, but not near any of the panhandles. The eastern panhandle includes Shephardstown and Romney.
     
  10. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is the simplest of economics. I'll use one real life example that I believe is probably representative of many circumstances across the land.

    The kid had almost no practical experience, no references, had been fired twice before for reasons he wasn't sure why, he would need some training to do the simplest tasks we needed done. But there was something in his eyes, in his bearing that prompted me to give him a chance. "Would you be willing to start and train at minimum wage on a trial basis?" He jumped at the chance.

    So even though our budget was strained to the limit, and because that young man would probably be paid more than he would produce for the organization, and he would require time from people who would otherwise use that time more productively, I hired him.

    There were some fits and starts and bumps in the road, but within a week or two he was beginning to hold his own. And then he began to shine with talents and ability I don't think he had any clue he had. He didn't stay at minimum wage for long and earned several more raises and a promotion before somebody who could afford to pay him a lot more than I could hired him away from us. With my blessings I might add.

    That's why you keep minimum wage low because it helps people to get a foot in the door and prove they are worth more than minimum wage. If I had to start that kid out at $15/hour I never would have taken a chance on him but would have looked for somebody who would earn $15/hour from day one.
     
  11. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi foxfyre,

    Thanks for your response:
    That's a good story, but please understand that I'm not trying to make a way for people who have screwed up their work record with second chances. Further, you don't seem to have been followiing my position on the matter. I'm actually in agreement with you that a national $15/hr minimum wage is not necessarily a good idea. You'd know that if you'd been keeping up.

    I think it's a foregone conclusion that a lot of young people do stupid things. They often don't fully understand the consequences of their actions. However, if you have a price point on your charity, that's your business. I'm not sure that I can justify paying most decent employees minimum wage for start up and low skilled work just because you want to be charitable in giving second chances to one person in the nation.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  12. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus was pretty clear in one of his parables that those who agree to work for a given wage should not complain when others agree to work for a different wage. (He was actually referring to God's grace as given to the last minute repentant as well as those who lived a lifetime of righteousness, but the principle is the same.)

    Nobody forces anybody to go to work for anybody. We have a great President right now that has accomplished an economy in which it is a seller's market for labor. Those who merit higher wages are getting them as currently there are fewer people with training, credentials, qualifications to fill all the vacancies for those jobs.

    But if a person is willing to accept a low minimum wage to get a foot in the door to obtain training and experience to merit more money, and/or if the person is someone like me who would work for free if it was allowed to get my foot in the door so I could show an employer what I am worth, what is that to anybody else? How is that anybody else's business?

    Many employers, especially mom and pop organizations, can't afford to hire people who won't earn their wages, at least without supervision, for a length of time. But they can often afford a low minimum wage to take a chance on training and qualifying somebody when they wouldn't take that chance at a higher wage. And those opportunities have put millions of people on the path to a living wage and prosperity.
     
  13. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    They take a chance on getting busted if they hire someone without a tax number. People are required to pay their taxes. The women I bought my house from did not pay her taxes and she had 15 people working for her. The government use to send people out here banging on my door looking for her. I had a landlord once he had to pay over $200,000 in back taxes. That was money he was suppose to withhold and was responsible to pay it even though he did not collect it.
     
  14. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    The trade I learned, I learned that in Houston around 1980. Even back then the illegals were already here and doing some of these same trades. And they are still here some 40 years later still doing some of these same trades. I don't recall one time when anyone ever got into trouble for hiring an illegal without a tax number. I don't doubt what you say though. I'm not questioning that. My point would be that maybe that happens in one case out of a million, while the other 999,999 times people are hiring illegals without tax numbers, and that no one seems to be doing anything about it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019 at 4:01 PM
  15. archarios

    archarios New Member

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019 at 1:46 PM
  16. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! Member

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    Great point. In suddenly bumping everyone up to $15 they make $20+hr jobs seem less worth having put in the time for. As for Amazon, I wouldn't work for them for $50hr. But at $15hr they are creating trouble for the big courier companies re: new hires. Why work THAT hard for 2-3bucks more an hour? Problem for Amazon workers is they are expendable and basically have no solid future there.
     
  17. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    LOL at myself. And the funny thing about it, in high school, math is what I got the best grades in at the time.
     
  18. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    It has been stated repeatedly that no one is proposing an immediate jump to $15/hr. It’s always done incrementally.
     
  19. GOD Shines Forth!

    GOD Shines Forth! Member

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    I just did a comparison of pieces from CNN, Vox and USA Today and they stated Bezos wanted this quickly. The OP did mention Amazon, and they don't qualify as "no one". The full timers have been getting $15hr. already. This new rate is for part-timers and temp agency hires (incl. seasonal hires). The plan is to add ONE bonus buck to the full timers' hourly rate. Gee, thanks a million, Bezos! Amazon will employ smoke, mirrors and sticky tape to mitigate against their sudden attack of "generosity".
     
  20. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    Labor is a market, like any other. When you have an oversupply of labor, prices go down. When you have an undersupoly of labor, prices go up.

    The classical response would be that we should have no minimum wage and that the market should set wage rates.

    The reason this is false is our current immigration policies where hundreds of thousands of new units of labor (speaking in economic terms) enter the country every month.

    This artificially depresses the labor rates markets would set and thereby creates a corporate subsidy with respect to the labor market.

    So until we can reform our immigration laws in such a way that only capital can enter the country, there is really no legitimate economic argument against a minimum wage.
     
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