Should the minimum wage be hiked?

[Sparagmos]

I just did a comparison of pieces from CNN, Vox and USA Today and they stated Bezos wanted this quickly. The OP did mention Amazon, and they don't qualify as "no one". The full timers have been getting $15hr. already. This new rate is for part-timers and temp agency hires (incl. seasonal hires). The plan is to add ONE bonus buck to the full timers' hourly rate. Gee, thanks a million, Bezos! Amazon will employ smoke, mirrors and sticky tape to mitigate against their sudden attack of "generosity".

We’ve been talking about raising the minimum wage, not Amazon voluntarily raising their wages. Amazon can afford to give everyone a big raise without affecting the customer at all.

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

We’ve been talking about raising the minimum wage, not Amazon voluntarily raising their wages. Amazon can afford to give everyone a big raise without affecting the customer at all.

Ok. I haven't been following your discussions, but was responding to the OP...who DID bring up Amazon. I understand your point, many are doing the raise incrementally. I never claimed they weren't.

 

[Sparagmos]

Ok. I haven't been following your discussions, but was responding to the OP...who DID bring up Amazon. I understand your point, many are doing the raise incrementally. I never claimed they weren't.

Yes I see what you are saying, the OP mentioned Amazon too.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The trade I learned, I learned that in Houston around 1980. Even back then the illegals were already here and doing some of these same trades. And they are still here some 40 years later still doing some of these same trades. I don't recall one time when anyone ever got into trouble for hiring an illegal without a tax number. I don't doubt what you say though. I'm not questioning that. My point would be that maybe that happens in one case out of a million, while the other 999,999 times people are hiring illegals without tax numbers, and that no one seems to be doing anything about it.

Sounds like life is different in Houston then life in Ohio.

 

[mukk_in]

Update: House passed a bill raising the minimum wage to $15/hour. The Senate is another matter.

House passes bill to hike the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour

Businesses are irate.

Business groups slam House for passing $15 minimum wage bill

 

[Yarddog]

Here's an interesting piece on WSJ about the possible ramifications of hiking minimum wage to $15 an hour. Amazon had done that and as an investor, I'm OK with it. CBO seems to suggest that many jobs would be lost as well. I believe all the 2020 Democrats are big on this. What do you folks think?

Links:

$15 Minimum Wage Would Bring Mixed Fortunes for U.S. Workers

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/8/20686392/federal-15-minimum-wage-raise-the-wage-act

I'm not in favor of a total minimum wage increase to $15 an hour, though I am a proponent of higher wages, which only stimulate the economy. Many businesses cannot afford to pay higher wages and should not be forced to while many businesses are just poorly run and the easiest way to cut expenses is to cut employees or their wages.

Far too much of the money is lies stagnant in the pockets of the ultra rich while the poor and middle class would spend that money and stimulate the economy. The answer is higher wages for good employees.

A good employee should be rewarded with a higher wage than a poor employee. A good supervisor should be rewarded with a higher salary while a poor one should be fired. Poor managers and corporate bosses cost companies more than poor employees. They are the ones who make the decisions which bankrupt the companies.

 

[Willie T]

I understand your position. It would be a nice world when we could rely on that honor system. But in this world asking the government to stay out of minimum wage as a policing agency would be kind of, but not quite, like not having police resolve disputes.

There is no "Honor System" to it. A specific wage is openly offered. It can be accepted, or refused.

 

[devin553344]

There is no "Honor System" to it. A specific wage is openly offered. It can be accepted, or refused.

I used to work in a strawberry field as a child. And it was terrible conditions, the field patrol was cruel and surprisingly didn't have whips to go with their shouting at us. We were basically paid a certain amount for each basket of strawberries which was pennies worth.

It reminded me of slavery, I never returned for a second day. But I had no idea the conditions when I agreed to work.

I agree there's no honor in robbing people of a decent wage

 

[Pooja Sadhu]

Here's an interesting piece on WSJ about the possible ramifications of hiking minimum wage to $15 an hour. Amazon had done that and as an investor, I'm OK with it. CBO seems to suggest that many jobs would be lost as well. I believe all the 2020 Democrats are big on this. What do you folks think?

Links:

$15 Minimum Wage Would Bring Mixed Fortunes for U.S. Workers

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/8/20686392/federal-15-minimum-wage-raise-the-wage-act

Here in Delhi the minimum wage is ₹423 per day. Most people can't get by on so little money.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Tlaib says it should be $20:

Rashida Tlaib: Minimum wage should be $20 an hour, not $15

Why are we selling Americans short with all this $15 and $20 talk? Just make it $500/hr so we can all become millionaires and join the 1%.

 

[The Barbarian]

I also think it will contribute to wealthy business owners replacing low skilled workers with machines. We've come so far in robotics and artificial intelligence that one day universal basic income won't seem like an outrageous idea anymore. Sure, work gives us purpose but what happens when only engineers and programmers can get jobs?

Kurt Vonnegut wrote about this in 1952, his first novel. A bit rough, compared to his later work as a mature novelist, but still a compelling read. I thought when I read it in the early 1960s, that it was not a very likely future.

Now, it seems to be very likely. The question Vonnegut raised and didn't completely answer, was precisely the same one you're asking. In Vonnegut's dystopia, everyone had enough to get by on, but the vast majority of people lacked purpose and meaning in their lives, and that eventually turned ugly.

Note the cover art, completely innocent of transistors and other solid-state devices.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[The Barbarian]

Any revolution in society will have profound consequences. Personal digital access is no different. We won't just be more capable of some things; we will also be less capable of other things.

Socrates denounced the technological innovation of writing, warning that when people stopped memorizing long epic poems, we would lose the ability to memorize huge chunks of verse, with dire consequences. And so it happened.

We think it's laughable, because we didn't experience the transition. In every change, you gain something and lose something. If you're lucky.

 

[Radagast]

In Vonnegut's dystopia, everyone had enough to get by on, but the vast majority of people lacked purpose and meaning in their lives, and that eventually turned ugly.

We're already seeing that in Western countries where some people are jobless for their whole lives.

 

[The Barbarian]

We're already seeing that in Western countries where some people are jobless for their whole lives.

Yes. I believe, given robotics and AI development, we could get to a point where almost no one would have to work.

Whether that's a great liberation, in which people find meaning and value in life's adventure, or a horror of human uselessness, depends greatly on how it is implemented, and how we prepare ourselves for it.

And of course, human society has periodic crashes, in which progress gets lost and we regress, so that might happen before we get to a workless world.

 

[Sparagmos]

I'm sure you remember a time where robot butlers doing the dirty work for us seemed like a utopia like in the Jetsons. As it's becoming a reality, however, it's only getting downright scary. Inventions always sound good on paper but half the time they have some unforeseen consequences on society. No one could have predicted the impact smart phones had on the younger generations. Study after study shows how it's impacting teens, young adults, and society as a whole.

Nothing scary about my dishwasher, my washing machine, my roomba, or my car. What automation or machines currently in use would you eliminate and replace with human labor?

 

[Radagast]

Yes. I believe, given robotics and AI development, we could get to a point where almost no one would have to work.

Whether that's a great liberation, in which people find meaning and value in life's adventure, or a horror of human uselessness, depends greatly on how it is implemented, and how we prepare ourselves for it.

I think we have enough experience to know that, for most people, it turns out to be a "horror of human uselessness."

 

[The Barbarian]

I think we have enough experience to know that, for most people, it turns out to be a "horror of human uselessness."

Having just retired a couple of years ago, I was concerned about that. I've picked up a host of new skills, reworking the house to my liking. And my photography continues to keep me seeking the ultimate image.

Too many people don't like themselves very much, and that makes it hard when they have to decide what to do when it's all up to them.

But I suspect you're right. Perhaps we should begin preparing society for that time.

 

[Snoder]

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[Sparagmos]

I think we have enough experience to know that, for most people, it turns out to be a "horror of human uselessness."

That’s crazy to me. On your day off are you useless? When humans have more time they create art and music, they invent things, they spend time with their families, they cook great cuisine, they read and study and learn, they innovate, they pray and meditate, they make love. I would posit that for most people, the time we spend outside of work is the most meaningful.