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Featured Should the minimum wage be hiked?

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by mukk_in, Jul 9, 2019 at 12:57 AM.

  1. Gigimo

    Gigimo Well-Known Member

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    I was surprised it was that much higher too but their prices have been trending upwards for awhile now.
     
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  2. Foxfyre

    Foxfyre Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is a huge difference between an individual business or corporation choosing to pass on their profits in the form of higher wages and benefits to their employees and the government mandating that everybody must do that.

    Currently President Trump's policies are resulting in higher wages pretty much across the board for most, and individual and family wealth is increasing again instead of declining as it did through the Obama years. Unemployment is at near historical lows and many demographics with historically high unemployment rates are seeing record or near record unemployment. That includes black people, Hispanics, women, youth, inner city hard core unemployed, etc. Further, even though the baby boomers are retiring in huge numbers now, the labor participation rate ticked up last month for the first time in a long time.

    Also people's 401ks and IRAs are prospering, and millions of people who were making do with part time jobs with few or no benefits during much of the Obama years are now moving into permanent full time jobs with benefits.

    This was accomplished with reform of the tax code plus deregulation of unnecessary and oppressive regulations that had created a stagnant economy and had been depressing the job market and keeping people unemployed and or under employed.

    We should not mess with something that is clearly working by establishing a federally mandated artificially high minimum wage that would almost certainly hit the young and difficult to employ people the hardest and ultimately wouldn't really benefit much of anybody.
     
  3. MayYouBeBlessed

    MayYouBeBlessed Member

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    It is good. The gov't expenses should be cut as well.
     
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  4. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    Or.... we could live 10 people per $1000 apartment? AAArrrrrgggghhhh :(
     
  5. archarios

    archarios New Member

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    As inflation goes up the minimum wage will need to go up.

    But as LaBella pointed out, there's always a catch.

    When bottled water companies started to "Go Green!" and use bottles made with less plastic, did prices go down and stay down? (I'm guessing they didn't.)

    When food companies decided to "Go Healthy!" and offer less food "for your sake", did prices go down and stay down?

    Doubling the minimum wage sounds good to a lot of people but why do you think all companies will

    1) have the extra money for such a sudden increase?

    2) Not have the money for the sudden increase, but will hire lots more new employees with a smile and expect everything to work out?

    3) Have the money for the sudden increase but NOT cry poor, lay off tons of folks, and pass on any remaining cost to customers?

    I ask these questions as someone with sympathies to the economic left.


    --------------
    As an aside, how long do you think it will be until we see the left half of Twitter and Facebook agitating for IWWs "4 Hour Work Day, Four Day Week"? And how long until we see 35 Democratic Presidential Candidates raise their hands in favor of it? Just asking.
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  6. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    Well the truth is much different. The educated professionals have been getting paid more as inflation goes up. The only people who's wages haven't gone up are the un-educated. Business raise their prices also. It's the low class that always foot the bill of inflation.

    Take a look at the bar graph here: How Much Can a Lawyer Expect to Get Paid?
     
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  7. derpytia

    derpytia Compassion. Supporter

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    The only way a wage increase would work well is if companies didn't see that as a loss and don't hike up the prices of everything/lay off thousands of workers as a result.

    Unfortunately, greed is the rule of the land and no company CEO wants to sacrifice 1-5% of their gross pay to give their workers a living wage.

    If I sound bitter, it's because I make a little above minimum wage and yet I live paycheck to paycheck and often have to ration medicine and basic needs in order to survive and even I know I'm lucky. I have friends who are homeless who work 2-3 jobs with only a few hours of sleep at night before they have to get up for the next job and they can't afford to live.

    You can see why the current financial and economic situation in the USA has me really worried.
     
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  8. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    The minimum wage either does nothing because the employers will pay higher than that since the market rate will be higher, or if the market rate is lower it will incentivize employers to cut either workers or their hours. I really don't see the point of having one at the federal level at all.
     
  9. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    All raising the minimum wage does is raise the baseline. If the cost of labor for non-skilled job goes up, then the skilled labor jobs also have to increase or no one is going to do the more difficult skilled jobs. As the price of labor increases, so does the end price in all products and services increase. So the $1 product is now $2. The $1000 a month rent goes up to say $1500 a month because it costs more to maintain that apartment and more people are willing to pay more. The cost of electricity goes up because it costs more to pay the same personnel to do the same job. And so on. The net result is just an inflated dollar that doesn't buy any more product or services so the same people are still struggling.
     
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  10. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    The only winner is the government because increased income means more people in a higher tax bracket
     
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  11. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Also, as the cost for labor increases, the companies look for ways to save money. Benefits disappear. Hours are cut so full time employees now are only getting part-time hours so they don't have to provide things guaranteed to full-time employees. Part-time employees are getting less hours. Corners are being cut where customers don't see which reduce quality of the service or product in the end. So you pay more for a 1.5 quart container of ice cream instead of the old 1/2 gallon container. It is only an illusion that anyone life gets better. It also means we are allowing teen workers to have more money to get in trouble with. Instead of raising the minimum wage, we should be encouraging minimum wage workers to get more skills so they can hold a higher paying job. Minimum wage isn't supposed to be able to provide for a family. It is a starting wage for no skill jobs.
     
  12. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am not an economist.

    All I can say is that the Bible teaches that defrauding the worker of his wages, which includes not paying a just wage, is a sin crying out to heaven for vengeance.
     
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  13. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    I'd say a just wage is decided between the two parties before the laborer engages in the work. Not one where the government decides a minimum wage. I think there are a lot of jobs out there that won't get done because they are not worth paying someone minimum wage to do. Easy parttime jobs that a student or a retired person or a mom might be willing to do if given the opportunity.
     
  14. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    That sounds wonderful. And then there's so many people that get swindled and conned in the barter system though. And like that people use and take advantage of others which is why we even have a minimum wage system. Cause the government had to step in and put their foot down on the swindlers.
     
  15. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Maybe the answer is to educate people on how not to be taken advantage of. Minimum wage punishes everyone, not just the swindlers. And if a mom is getting paid minimum wage but is required to pay a babysitter the same minimum wage (or more for multiple children) who is being helped? Shouldn't she be allowed to hire a college student to babysit her kids while she studies at a lower wage? That would allow the college student to make money while studying and the mom to make a bit of money.
     
  16. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    I understand your position. It would be a nice world when we could rely on that honor system. But in this world asking the government to stay out of minimum wage as a policing agency would be kind of, but not quite, like not having police resolve disputes.
     
  17. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Police don't resolve disputes. They enforce laws and judges resolve disputes.

    How does the minimum wage keep people from taking advantage of workers? It only artificially inflates the dollar. Giving unskilled labor more money doesn't give them more spending power because the cost of everything goes up. It actually starts to take advantage of skilled labor because the value of their higher pay goes down and they seldom increase as much relatively. I know I don't even get cost of living wage increases anymore. I am really wondering if it is time to change professions.

    Again, people lose jobs when the minimum wage goes up. Their life is not improved by forced minimum wages. People are not allowed to work for less when the job is not worth less money but is worth something. And the places that hire minimum wage workers find ways to work with less employees.
     
  18. devin553344

    devin553344 Enlighten our lives dear Lord

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    You maybe are coming from different experiences than I. I have lived with a $25/hr wage and also survived on much less.

    Police do in fact resolve disputes, they don't always perform arrests unless a crime has been committed and then not always depending on the crime. For instance they may arrest one and stop other crimes from being committed by resolving disputes. Do an internet search and you'll see that.Making Peace - Tips on Managing Conflict - Los Angeles Police Department

    I find that a lot of poor people I know shop at Fredmeyer and Walmart and such and the prices are pretty low for most items. And they have raised minimum wage. The only thing that is out of control probably is gas prices around here and we all know what that's about I think. Unless you're buying name brand items. They can get pretty pricey.
     
  19. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih Supporter

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    federal minimum wage is $7.25. the highest is at $13.25 and the average is something is like $8.50. So an increase to $15 would be a substantial amount and if we are talking about the federal minimum wage than it would be more responsible to increase it over a length of time rather than all at once (maybe 10 years?).

    When you increase the minimum wage this will increase paying "under the table" to workers, dominantly illegals. The US's economy already irresponsibly depends on illegal workers in many of its primary industries so it needs to figure out that puzzle first before an aggressive minimum wage increase.

    tariffs are not the solution as illegals are personally motivated to enter (not by government or corporate bodies) and as long as there is "work" for them to come to they will keep coming. For example, if there are 5000 jobs that are designed for illegals than this means there is a demand for 5000 illegals. if there is are 50,000 jobs designed for illegals than there is a demand for 50,000 illegals. Do you see where this is going? If tariffs are to be imposed it should be to the industries supporting illegals, not outside the country but the problem with this is no one likes this answer. It means the cost of these primary industries will go up and the consumer will have to pay more, this includes exporting these goods and importers (the rest of the world) may find someone else who is cheaper.

    These industries affect all aspects of the economy from raw materials to food and are widely exported. I live in SEA where there is a staple of soy products in a lot of food, this soy dominantly comes from the US. Papayas grow easily here and are common but if you go to the market the papayas are from the US. This is a developing nation and they import products that they can grow themselves from the US so if these costs go up, they will start growing it for themselves and this is a danger to the US economy. The entire thing is one giant cracked egg and it's going to collapse if nothing is done about it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019 at 5:16 AM
  20. lsume

    lsume Active Member Supporter

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    The problem is much more complicated than what has been considered. A work ethic and productivity have been America’s big bread winner. Having the drive to excel in our work efforts has been a great advantage for America. Things have certainly changed here over the last 40 years. Now socialized government threatens to upend America. All any of us can do is pray for God’s Will in our lives. The leftist regime is moving in a negative direction and if America is not redirected soon I’m afraid we will fall.
     
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