Should Secession be an option?

Creech · Dec 9, 2012

Here is a good article from Pat Buchanan on secession.

Stirrings of Secession

Also, a video about reasons why someone from a red state wouldn't want to secede

Reasons Not to Secede? - YouTube

SnowCal · Dec 9, 2012

And let's be clear. Congress is still fully in control of monetary policy, but they have chosen to delegate the decision-making to the Fed. Wisely, I might add. It's hard to give up power, but it's the smart thing to do sometimes. And you will see economists of all stripes and creeds running to battle stations when Congress even hints that it wants to exercise influence on monetary policy. There are few things more dangerous than career pols meddling in the monetary affairs of a country with a fiat currency.

szechuan · Dec 10, 2012

miniverchivi said:
Population of Texas (conservative): 27 million
Electoral Votes: 38
1.407 electoral votes per million people

Population of California (liberal): 37 million
Electoral Votes: 55
1.486 electoral votes per million people

neither are swing states(regardless of what people say CA, Texas, and new york actually don't matter as much) , and CA only has a slight edge if Texas had a slightly bigger population they will have more electorals.

What really matters are swing states and it can go either way.

I actually did a thread about it a while back showing the numerous other examples of how the electoral college system is currently slanted in the liberal favor.

if we did go to with popular Al Gore would of won.

The people of TX have a legitimate gripe. While it does pertain to the election, it's not strictly due to a hatred of Obama. They're being under-represented in terms of electoral votes...as are many of the conservative states for that matter.

Not really, the reason why Texas doesn't have a slight edge is because there electoral colleges are also shared. The amount shared is FIXED for bigger states.

Texas gets 6 less than they should and CA gets 10 less than they should.

every state starts out with 3, states that should get only 1 electoral get more because they all start out with 3, so states that should only get 1 or 2 sometimes get 4-5 or more.

Archaeopteryx · Dec 10, 2012

Can Texas Secede from the Union? - YouTube

ThatRobGuy · Dec 10, 2012

Archaeopteryx said:
Can Texas Secede from the Union? - YouTube

Very cool video.

So that at least debunks the folks that claim that they couldn't survive from a economic or military perspective.

So it's really a legal matter at this point.

Since it would require a change in the law, I would say that petitioning to the government is the proper way to handle it, so the folks in TX who do want to separate are taking the proper channels.

jgarden · Dec 10, 2012

Despite the fact that Al Gore received approximately 500 000 more votes than his Republican counterpart during the 2000 Election, there was no mention of "secessionist declarations" by Democrats when the Supreme Court decided that George Bush would be the next president.

This was despite the fact that 2 of the Supreme Court Justices (David Souter, Clarence Thomas) were in a clear conflict of interests because they had been appointed by Bush's father, and that Florida, the state where the voting controversy occured, had Jeb Bush, Geotge's brother, as its Governor.

Conservatives have a tradition of patriots "wrapping themselves in the flag" and assuming the role of self-appointed guardians of the Constitution - but all bets are off if and when their candidate don't win!

Archaeopteryx · Dec 10, 2012

miniverchivi said:
Very cool video.

So that at least debunks the folks that claim that they couldn't survive from a economic or military perspective.

So it's really a legal matter at this point.

Since it would require a change in the law, I would say that petitioning to the government is the proper way to handle it, so the folks in TX who do want to separate are taking the proper channels.

Not just a legal matter, but a matter of public opinion. Secession just doesn't have enough popular support behind it to gain traction in any legislature. Perhaps the first step then is to galvanize support for the idea so that it comes to the attention of legislators at both the state and federal levels.

SnowCal · Dec 10, 2012

The comparison of Cali to Texas is kind of odd because Texans are only managing to get screwed slightly worse than Californians. California is #3 in the nation for least electoral votes per capita. What's a lot more striking is a comparison of a big state like Texas or Cali with a small one like New Hampshire or Montana.

And it's good to remember that Al Gore doesn't necessarily win if the popular vote decides. Turnout is so different with a system where your vote counts the same, no matter where you live in the country. And politics would change a lot because of that. Tis entirely possible that Mr. Gore never even gets a nomination in the first place under that system.

SnowCal · Dec 10, 2012

But the electoral college is a weird, archaic system. A throwback to an era where the landed-elite were a big deal and slaves couldn't vote but had better be counted for 3/5s. That's the big reason we have it in the first place. It's intensely anti-democratic and it hurts our country. It makes our government not responsive to the majority of the people but to the tyranny of a small minority. And that won't change until we abolish this obsolete institution and implement a popular vote.

psalms 91 · Dec 10, 2012

States rights are all about them being seperate and independant and they do have a right to seceed although I am sure the government will not recognize that any more than they did in the civil war. That was the real issue then and I believe that it will be an ssue at some point in this country as I can see a civil war being likely in this country once again.

TerranceL · Dec 10, 2012

Personal secession is your right! Put your money where your mouth is! Don't sign some silly petition that has no power.

Site Overview | Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship: A Web Guide

YOU HAVE THE POWER!

*This message brought to you by The Council for a Less Whiny Electorate*

DrkSdBls · Dec 10, 2012

Shoot. If Texas was to Secede, it would probably be the Best thing for America.

After America was to Take back all the Military and Financial Support that it provides Texas on a Yearly basis, it would go a long way to help balance our Deficit. Thinking of all the Texans who would relinquish their Claim of Federal Benefits by denouncing their Citizenship would make Medicare Solvent for 60 years.

And that's assuming if Texas would remain whole. I could see it dissolving in 50 years, it's northern part being reabsorbed into the Union (possibly being added to Oklahoma and New Mexico) and the southern half being taken by Mexico.

While we're at it, we can Sell Alaska to Canada and that'd probably wipe out our Debt completely! Shoot, Alaskans are pretty much Canadians already. We'd just be finishing the job. Hey! Maybe we can Trade Alaska for Quebec!

psalms 91 · Dec 10, 2012

And the oil and other natural resources? The trade and other beneficial things of these states? You would replace them how?

DrkSdBls · Dec 10, 2012

psalms 91 said:
And the oil and other natural resources? The trade and other beneficial things of these states? You would replace them how?

I was being Facetious.

Besides, Wall Street would never allow Texas to Succeed for this reason (the Federal Government wouldn't have much a Say in the matter.)

There are way too many non-Texans who have way too much invested in Texas to risk losing all of those investments.

The True Ruling Class of America profits from having a Stable Union.

szechuan · Dec 10, 2012

psalms 91 said:
States rights are all about them being seperate and independant and they do have a right to seceed although I am sure the government will not recognize that any more than they did in the civil war.

They do not have the right to Secede... They can ask for the right to secede essentially asking Congress to change the law, but that has an extremely slim chance.

SnowCal · Dec 10, 2012

What's up with all the mercantilism? We don't need to own Texas to reap it's natural resource wealth. Nor does our owning it prevent others from doing so. This is not the 19th century folks!

SnowCal · Dec 10, 2012

And of all the red states that might want to secede, Texas is the only one that isn't a drain on the federal government, barely. So, sorry but they've gotta stay. The rest of you can all leave and join Mexico or whatever brilliant thing you've come up with.

You know what would actually be more fun is if rather than dividing America up as red states and blue states we broke up on a county by county basis. You have no idea how badly Blue County America could screw Red County America (read: you'd be an effectively landlocked country with a severe shortage of saltwater ports).

Paulos23 · Dec 10, 2012

SnowCal said:
And of all the red states that might want to secede, Texas is the only one that isn't a drain on the federal government, barely. So, sorry but they've gotta stay. The rest of you can all leave and join Mexico or whatever brilliant thing you've come up with.

You know what would actually be more fun is if rather than dividing America up as red states and blue states we broke up on a county by county basis. You have no idea how badly Blue County America could screw Red County America (read: you'd be an effectively landlocked country with a severe shortage of saltwater ports).

And thde blue counties don't have enough crop land to feed itself. Both sides need each other economicly.

Purge187 · Dec 10, 2012

My political party (Constitution) largely supports the Compact Theory, but secession should be a last option.

As others have said, Texas's current push for independence is largely symbolic and partisan. If George W. Bush were pushing similar policies as Obama--and in many cases, he was--the outcry wouldn't be as loud.

TerranceL · Dec 10, 2012

SnowCal said:
And of all the red states that might want to secede, Texas is the only one that isn't a drain on the federal government, barely. So, sorry but they've gotta stay. The rest of you can all leave and join Mexico or whatever brilliant thing you've come up with.

You know what would actually be more fun is if rather than dividing America up as red states and blue states we broke up on a county by county basis. You have no idea how badly Blue County America could screw Red County America (read: you'd be an effectively landlocked country with a severe shortage of saltwater ports).

And the blue country would have no source of food.

Should Secession be an option?

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