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Should Secession be an option?

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Creech, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. Creech

    Creech Senior Veteran

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  2. ThatRobGuy

    ThatRobGuy The artist formerly known as miniverchivi Supporter

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    I think they should be allowed if they want to.

    Heck, our nation was founded by people who wanted to break away from a home country which they thought was going in the wrong direction and was oppressive.

    Why would we deny that right from anyone else?

    I know Quebec wanted to break away from the rest of Canada, however, Canada didn't allow them because they didn't want to lose access to their shipping ports, not really because they had any love or admiration for the people of Quebec (in fact, most Canadians I talk to said they typically don't like the people of Quebec because they're pompous and usually follow it up with "Well, they're French so what do you expect, eh?") ^_^

    I suspect that the US would have the same reasons for trying to prevent it. Many liberal folks like to bad mouth the ways of states like Texas, but if it came down to actually losing a state like Texas, they'd never allow it because of the revenue the country gets from a state that size.

    For me personally, I have several friends in Texas, if they did manage to break away...I'd consider moving there.
     
  3. Douger

    Douger Veteran

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    There is certainly an ugly and unpleasant side to a lot of the secessionist movement and some states would be real basket cases if the seceded.

    I wouldn't vote for the secession of my home state, but as a federal issue, I'd vote that absolutely, states should be allowed to secede.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2012
  4. jehoiakim

    jehoiakim Servant

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    Secession was the key point that made us a nation in the first place. Simply reading the declaration of independence we have to by our nature honor the idea of succession if states feel called to it.

    Succession in 1860 however was different. The only reason the south succeeded was for slavery. Some southerners will tell you it was for "states rights," but really what was the only right they were talking about? Only slavery which really opposed the views of the founding fathers, Jefferson wanted to make it illegal in the original draft of the constitution but he was talked out of it so they southern states would support he war, Jefferson understood slavery was a battle for another day. In the movie Gettysburg Robert E Lee says "we should have freed the slaves and then attacked Ft Sumter". If that was really how the south felt, and they did that, we'd be looking at the south a lot different. The Union certainly had it's faults as well, Lincoln originally avoided the slavery issue at all costs, and some suggest Lincoln used the slavery issue to hold control of the south and it wasn't really a priority to the Union at all. The North was no lest racist then the south. Robert E Lee and Jackson were very Godly men, but really I think The Union had a real case there because the South was not protecting the rights of all of it's inhabitants, if the south had just disagreed in ideology and how to run their states it would have been a different scenario.
     
  5. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    To what level? If states secede... can then towns secede from these states? Neighborhoods from the towns? Streets? Individual homes?
     
  6. Avniel

    Avniel Doing my part each day by being the best me

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    Yeah and we want all of our weapons american tax dollars paid for all american troops must move out of the country, if you have federal student loans you either have to pay or move out of that state and we are going to sell texas back to mexico.
     
  7. jehoiakim

    jehoiakim Servant

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    The only reason a state would want to succeed is if the union of states is being tyrannical. Same goes for counties or towns and if a state or a country is being tyrannical I say go for it it forces the states not to have as much power. Of course if a state succeeded and rewrote it's owns constitution they could stop succession there, but with in the law of the US state succession at least seems legit
     
  8. mpok1519

    mpok1519 Veteran

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    Didn't we fight a civil war over this idea?

    Great to see we haven't settled this already.
     
  9. motherprayer

    motherprayer Elisha

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    What about citizens of those states who do not wish to secede? Does their vote not count?
     
  10. Blackwater Babe

    Blackwater Babe Well-Known Member

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    700,000 Americans? Or 700,000 signatures?
     
  11. jehoiakim

    jehoiakim Servant

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    If states started voting to succeed I wouldn't want to be in my state for too long it is far too corrupt, but if other states were doing it, I would be happy for my state to succeed it it meant I could move to another state that succeeded and had views closer to my own. Washington regardless of who is in power are republican or democrat continues to spend well beyond our means and continues to infringe on our civil rights, either way I think we are in a lot of trouble in this country and state succession might by us some time before it all goes down the drain
     
  12. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist

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    700,000 signatures across 50 states in a country with a population of 311,000,000. Not exactly a whole lot of clout there.
     
  13. Blackwater Babe

    Blackwater Babe Well-Known Member

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    Especially considering there were several petitions, which, presumably, some people signed more than one of.
     
  14. jehoiakim

    jehoiakim Servant

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    Doesn't their vote count?

    There were many people during the American revolution who wanted to stick with England, what if we didn't' succeed from England based on that principal?

    Democracy isn't as free as people think it is, it is the mob rules mentality which is why we have a constitutional republic which protect the rights of the people and not a democracy.




    In my opinion secession is a last stage resort.

    Ideally Stage 1 should be States rights so that states can determine what ideology their citizens want to live by. Something more conservative, something more liberal, something more green, something more libertarian, and the federal gov should be a lot smaller. State rights would allow an outlet for people who have specific convictions. Over time people with similar values would move to like-minded states and it would all even out. If a state was trying to trample on the rights of another (example slavery) then would be a legitimate reason for the Fed to step in

    Stage II, succession, I think only really happens if you don't allow stage 1, states rights. If you don't allow stage II you are likely to be forced at some-point with stage III... civil unrest and civil war. God forbid we ever get there, I pray that does not happen. This nation is so divided, so angry at each other, so unwilling to compromise or work together I am afraid it is possible down the road.
     
  15. morningstar2651

    morningstar2651 Senior Veteran

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    My thoughts: Is it really so bad that you can't just wait 4 more years to vote again? I didn't like Bush Jr., but that didn't mean I felt the need to abandon the country.
     
  16. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist

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    Yes, they do but a fraction of one percent of the population scattered across numerous states who are not taken seriously by the rest of the population does not make for a successful movement towards a minor goal much less a history altering one like succession.
     
  17. Desk trauma

    Desk trauma Atheist Capitalist

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    They only have to wait two years, if the republicans gain seats in the midterms they can move federal policy towards their views no matter who hold the white house.
     
  18. Creech

    Creech Senior Veteran

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  19. Creech

    Creech Senior Veteran

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    Wars do not determine if an idea was right, just who was in a better military situation. Ireland fought for hundreds and hundreds of years before they gained Independence. I highly doubt anyone here is thinking about another civil war. Just peacefully leaving the Union.
     
  20. jehoiakim

    jehoiakim Servant

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    you are right this movement doesn't mean anything, and I never said it did. They aren't even doing it right. The proper procedure is to propose succession to your state legislature, not the white house.
     
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