Should I worry more about Hell?

[zippy2006]

how do you think you manage your thoughts?

I think I manage them better than most but not well enough. Impactful and difficult thoughts especially become a problem while on prayer retreats.

 

[ArmyMatt]

those usually aren't the thoughts you gotta worry about.

 

[JohnTh]

If there is a particular section that addresses this I would love a specific reference.

„Do you see a man (monk) who is in delusion? He believed in his thoughts”.

St. Dorotheos of Gaza - Volume 8 in Romanian Philokalia (compiled by fr. Dumitru Stăniloae).
EDIT: Volume 9. Sorry! (<Big sheepish grin>)

It has only 4.57 stars out of 5 on Good Reads. Too low IMHO. See also the comments there.

Also, Elder Joseph the Hesychast said the above quote in his epistles very, very often.

I think I manage them better than most but not well enough. Impactful and difficult thoughts especially become a problem while on prayer retreats.

Heh! Don't say so. During prayer you just start to see them because the first the stages of sin happen very quickly and most of the time unobserved by us. Prayer gives you some illumination to see what it is happening in reality. If you do not see that unseen warfare in day by day life it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. On contrary.

 

[public hermit]

When I was a kid, I was afraid to do any bad stuff because I didn't want to go to hell. Nowadays, I know I have to remain in grace, otherwise I will be doomed, but I don't feel the same fear I once had. Is that something to worry about? I don't want to burn.

I wouldn't worry about that. God, by grace, has freed you from fear (including that particular one) so that you may freely love as you have been loved. So, worry about love.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I wouldn't worry about that. God, by grace, has freed you from fear (including that particular one) so that you may freely love as you have been loved. So, worry about love.

hell is God's love in the face of the sinner

 

[AMM]

Heh! Don't say so. During prayer you just start to see them because the first the stages of sin happen very quickly and most of the time unobserved by us. Prayer gives you some illumination to see what it is happening in reality. If you do not see that unseen warfare in day by day life it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. On contrary.

When we realize these negative, problematic, sinful thoughts, like irritation, impatience, grumbling, and so forth (the ones I notice in myself the most) - what do we do about them? How do we grow in Christ and let his mercy heal us?

 

[Basil123]

If you have received Christ as your Saviour are trusting in the shed blood of Christ for your justification, you have no fear of hell because you won't be going there. The Scripture says that God saves to the uttermost those who believe in Christ and trust in His finished work. You have the seed of God's grace in you, and it will never be removed.

We are saved by grace and every sin is under the blood of Jesus! (even future sins!) If you have been saved then you will go to Heaven! Romans 8:1 I agree with Oscarr! Amen!

 

[zippy2006]

„Do you see a man (monk) who is in delusion? He believed in his thoughts”.

St. Dorotheos of Gaza - Volume 8 in Romanian Philokalia (compiled by fr. Dumitru Stăniloae).
EDIT: Volume 9. Sorry! (<Big sheepish grin>)

It has only 4.57 stars out of 5 on Good Reads. Too low IMHO. See also the comments there.

Also, Elder Joseph the Hesychast said the above quote in his epistles very, very often.

Wonderful, thank you for the reference - that is very helpful.

If you stumble upon anything else along these lines feel free to refer me.

Heh! Don't say so. During prayer you just start to see them because the first the stages of sin happen very quickly and most of the time unobserved by us. Prayer gives you some illumination to see what it is happening in reality. If you do not see that unseen warfare in day by day life it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. On contrary.

Sure, that makes sense.

 

[JohnTh]

hell is God's love in the face of the sinner

I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scourged by the scourge of love.

- St. Isaac is formidable.

 

[JohnTh]

When we realize these negative, problematic, sinful thoughts, like irritation, impatience, grumbling, and so forth (the ones I notice in myself the most) - what do we do about them? How do we grow in Christ and let his mercy heal us?

First you would ignore them. Do not talk with them (as I said earlier), rather concentrate on Christ.
If they will not go, then blame yourself in front of our beloved heavenly Father with humility but take care to not despair.
And if they still do not leave, then you should go to confess.

You know, the thoughts are like planes. Do not make any airport to allow them to land in your heart. If you will see a helicopter which try to land in your soul then you will take Bazooka and shoot it - that is tell that thought like a helicopter to a confessor.

 

[AMM]

First you would ignore them. Do not talk with them (as I said earlier), rather concentrate on Christ.
If they will not go, then blame yourself in front of our beloved heavenly Father with humility but take care to not despair.
And if they still do not leave, then you should go to confess.

You know, the thoughts are like planes. Do not make any airport to allow them to land in your heart. If you will see a helicopter which try to land in your soul then you will take Bazooka and shoot it - that is tell that thought like a helicopter to a confessor.

Thanks that's helpful. I really like that quote from St Porphyrios - "Do not fight to expel darkness from the chamber of your soul. Open a tiny aperture for light to enter, and the darkness will disappear." I think I'm going to write it down in a little prayer notebook I keep where I record prayers and spiritual sayings that particularly strike me

And the one from St Isaac is also helpful. I must admit, this line made me chuckle: "For it is more expedient to be bruised than dead." Too often, I know I think something along the lines of "ugh, I've fallen again, I wish God would just take me than leave me here to struggle with XYZ". But in reality, He is allowing me these struggles in order to be sanctified, so that when He takes me to Him, at His time, I will be ready (I hope and pray!)

 

[Andrei D]

This is a very scary thread because there is such a fine line between simply thinking about the mystery of Salvation and straying into really dark territories. It's hard, because we are indeed supposed to have some fear and stay alert and ready, but we are effectively commanded not to worry. So, I don't know.

On lighter note, if you are indeed worried, I found this booth at a county fair:

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This is a very scary thread because there is such a fine line between simply thinking about the mystery of Salvation and straying into really dark territories. It's hard, because we are indeed supposed to have some fear and stay alert and ready, but we are effectively commanded not to worry. So, I don't know.

On lighter note, if you are indeed worried, I found this booth at a county fair:

The answer is: "Be anxious for nothing, but by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, make your requests to God, and the peace of God that passes all understanding will keep your heart and mind in Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:6-7).

 

[ArseniusTheSilent]

I think of the pit from time to time. It is NOT somewhere that I want to end up. We can argue and discuss what it is to experience that as an end result but I know it is infinitely worse than anything we can put to words.

Like La Bella, I am (usually) firmly focused on living a life in Christ. If it takes a healthy dose of terror and fear to kick me back on the narrow path when I stumble and falter from time to time then so be it. The Ladder does such an incredible job to define the various stages of living a life int he Lord's image.

Sometimes however...I do not want to think about what's in that gaping, bottomless pit.

edit: I realized that I didn't answer the OP's question. Focus on living a life in Christ's image. The focus is on salvation and picking up the cross to live a life in Christ. Easier said than done to be sure.

 

[ArseniusTheSilent]

Go read Mary of Egypt's life (April 1st). She tells Saint Zosimas to "Remember my wretchedness" despite the level of piety that she attained by the end. Salvation requires effort. The narrow path isn't for everyone. Is it right for you?

The Prodigal Son shows us that we can all be saved if we turn to Christ decisively. That is the beauty of God's creation and gift to us. We have free will to turn towards him (rather than away from him) at any point regardless of how far we have fallen and what we have done up until that moment.

Focus on moving towards the light in lieu of fearing the darkness.

http://www.dormitioninconcord.com/articles/pascha/StEPIPHANIUS-homilyHolySaturday.pdf

That is what Christ gave us if we have the courage to take up the cross and follow him. I can't think of a more beautiful, poignant and powerful way to describe his gift to us.

 

[Antoni]

I wouldn't worry about that. God, by grace, has freed you from fear (including that particular one) so that you may freely love as you have been loved. So, worry about love.

If we truly worry about love alone, than we spend less time with other worries. We then begin to live one foot in the Divine Kingdom and one foot upon the earth. Those who have lived such lives in the history of mankind, we call Saints. And those who died for love, we call Martyrs. Those holy men and women give us hope by their example, and they give us instruction by their faith.

These giants amongst our spiritual forefathers fell on their knees and prayed with tears for the souls of those who would torture them and who killed them.

This is perfect love, and in such love, there is no fear.

Unless, however, we have such love, (which is the indeed the love of Christ), we should fear hell every waking moment of our lives.

But not as those who live without hope! For we see the example of the Saints and their repentance, and how they struggled and found the love of Christ. We have such Saints, many who interceede for us right now before the altar of God.

We must learn to live as Saints, and replace hate with mercy and through love, extinguish fear.

And by God’s great mercy, even we who have often fallen, might find ourselves enter into the Heavenly Banquet and into eternal life.

As St. John the Beloved of Christ said to his flock which he shepherded, well into his years, when he was so old that needed to be carried about:

“Love one another.”

By this instruction, St. John the Theologian summed up the Gospel, and on how they would find everlasting life in the Kingdom of Heaven. “Love one another”

May he intercede to our Almighty God on our behalf, and may our Lord Jesus Christ have mercy upon us sinners.

 

[Antoni]

I also maintain that those who are punished in Gehenna are scourged by the scourge of love.

- St. Isaac is formidable.

Indeed. A giant amongst the Saints.

 

[prodromos]

Fear is the beginning of wisdom, it certainly isn't the end. Some need a bit of fear to set them on the right path, but eventually we should remain on the path out of love.

 

[JohnTh]

Fear is the beginning of wisdom, it certainly isn't the end.

Well, first we should mention that we speak about fear of God here and not any other fear.
Besides that, you are right - there are three states that we can please God.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yep, fear of hell is the most base and the lowest of the paths to heaven, but it does work.