Should I worry more about Hell?

[Not David]

When I was a kid, I was afraid to do any bad stuff because I didn't want to go to hell. Nowadays, I know I have to remain in grace, otherwise I will be doomed, but I don't feel the same fear I once had. Is that something to worry about? I don't want to burn.

 

[Antoni]

One of the Saints taught that there are three reasons why people follow the commandments of God. The first, and lowest reason, is out of fear of hell and punishment. The second reason is to enter the Kingdom of Heaven when the time comes. And the third, and greatest reason, is purely out of love for God. That is the way of the Saints.

Nevertheless, although one is greater than another, we sinners should be struggling for all those reasons.

Thus, we can understand why one Saint (I think St. Silouan) said: “keep your mind in hell, yet despair not”. In other words, we should be battling with the thought that we may lose our salvation and be separated from God on account of our sins, because that (in appropriate doses) stirs us to remain attentive and continue to fight the good fight. But that should not be to a degree of leading us to despair.

To repentance? Certainly! But not to despondency and depression, as if we have no hope.

For this reason, it is important to have an experienced spiritual father for guidance.

 

[All4Christ]

One of the Saints taught that there are three reasons why people follow the commandments of God. The first, and lowest reason, is out of fear of hell and punishment. The second reason is to enter the Kingdom of Heaven when the time comes. And the third, and greatest reason, is purely out of love for God. That is the way of the Saints.

Nevertheless, although one is greater than another, we sinners should be struggling for all those reasons.

Thus, we can understand why one Saint (I think St. Silouan) said: “keep your mind in hell, yet despair not”. In other words, we should be battling with the thought that we may lose our salvation and be separated from God on account of our sins, because that (in appropriate doses) stirs us to remain attentive and continue to fight the good fight. But that should not be to a degree of leading us to despair.

To repentance? Certainly! But not to despondency and depression, as if we have no hope.

For this reason, it is important to have an experienced spiritual father for guidance.

St Maximos also said something similar:

"The fear of the Lord is twofold. The first type is produced in us from threats of punishment, and from it arise in proper order self-control, patience, hope in God, and detachment, from which comes love. The second is coupled with love itself and constantly produces reverence in the soul, list through the familiarity of love it becomes presumptuous of God. Perfect love casts out the first fear from the soul which by possessing it no longer fears punishment. The second fear it has always joined to it, as was said. The following passages apply to the first fear: 'By the fear of the Lord everyone turns away from evil,' (Prov. 15:27) and, 'the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.' (Prov. 1:7) And to the second fear: 'The fear of the Lord is pure and remains forever and ever,' (Ps. 18:10) and, 'There is no want in those who fear him.' (Ps. 33:10)" - St. Maximos the Confessor, Four Hundred Chapters on Love, 1.81-82

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think just the fact that you posted here at all does show you still have some level of fear.

 

[zippy2006]

When I was a kid, I was afraid to do any bad stuff because I didn't want to go to hell. Nowadays, I know I have to remain in grace, otherwise I will be doomed, but I don't feel the same fear I once had. Is that something to worry about? I don't want to burn.

It sounds like you're worried about being worried about Hell, and that's the first step to recovery!

(Not being Orthodox, I offer no opinion beyond this joke )

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

When I was a kid, I was afraid to do any bad stuff because I didn't want to go to hell. Nowadays, I know I have to remain in grace, otherwise I will be doomed, but I don't feel the same fear I once had. Is that something to worry about? I don't want to burn.

If you have received Christ as your Saviour are trusting in the shed blood of Christ for your justification, you have no fear of hell because you won't be going there. The Scripture says that God saves to the uttermost those who believe in Christ and trust in His finished work. You have the seed of God's grace in you, and it will never be removed.

 

[Not David]

But why do I worry about vainless and mundane stuff but my fear of hell isn't as great?

 

[Lukaris]

I would think we need to have courage in our faith to confront what we must also fear. What the Lord preaches in Luke 12:4-10, I believe, refers to this.

 

[bèlla]

I never think of hell. It doesn’t cross my mind. My fear of the Lord isn’t rooted in negative consequences. It’s steeped in a daughter’s wish to please her Lord.

 

[JohnTh]

One of the Saints taught

St. Basil the Great, quoted by St. Dorotheos of Gaza

Thus, we can understand why one Saint (I think St. Silouan) said: “keep your mind in hell, yet despair not”.

Yes, it was St. Silouan.

But why do I worry about vainless and mundane stuff but my fear of hell isn't as great?

Lack of spiritual knowledge - called also 'illumination of the mind". It is a very common parasite of Adam which at its heights makes the soul insensible.

We have the experience of the things near us while we don't really know how the heavenly things are because these are very, very different from earthly things, even if we try to describe them with our own words.

I think that what effectively will help you is to know the difference between heaven and hell and, hence, which is the hell's core.

If you have received Christ as your Saviour are trusting in the shed blood of Christ for your justification, you have no fear of hell because you won't be going there. The Scripture says that God saves to the uttermost those who believe in Christ and trust in His finished work. You have the seed of God's grace in you, and it will never be removed.

Hmmm.... hell is choice. We are not dead yet. The game is over only when we are dead. More upon request.

Nowadays, I know I have to remain in grace, otherwise I will be doomed, but I don't feel the same fear I once had.

Yes, because the hell is choice (see above) - so we must concentrate to be constant in having good thoughts and doing good deeds. If your fear of hell paralyses you and stops you in making good deeds then this fear is from the evil one.

 

[ArmyMatt]

If you have received Christ as your Saviour are trusting in the shed blood of Christ for your justification, you have no fear of hell because you won't be going there. The Scripture says that God saves to the uttermost those who believe in Christ and trust in His finished work. You have the seed of God's grace in you, and it will never be removed.

hell is not so much a place to go to as it is a condition of the soul experiencing the fire of God's presence. it's the shed Blood of Christ that makes hell, hell.

 

[ArmyMatt]

But why do I worry about vainless and mundane stuff but my fear of hell isn't as great?

because we're all fallen. because the devil is very good at distracting us.

 

[Antoni]

But why do I worry about vainless and mundane stuff but my fear of hell isn't as great?

Tradition tells us that after St. Lazarus died and was risen from the dead by Christ, he never smiled during the thirty years after his resurrection, worried by the sight of the unredeemed souls and what he had experienced during his four-day stay in Hades.

We worry about mundane and trivial things and not as much on hell because our minds our fallen and distracted, as ArmyMatt posted above. If we tasted hell for only two seconds, we would be falling on our knees with tears every night and praying for deliverance from such a fate. Instead, we focus on more ‘immediate’ and visible issues, while ignoring that which we should be most fearful of- namely, separation from God.

As we spiritually mature, and our love and faith grows stronger, the fear of hell does not occupy the forefront of our thoughts, but rather, the fear of disappointing our Beloved Father in Heaven. Nevertheless, to have no fear of hell at all, one is either 1) distracted, 2) full of pride or ignorance, or 3) a God-bearing Saint perfected in Christ. For myself, knowing the sins I do and how far I am from where I should be, the first two reasons would apply.

 

[JohnTh]

Tradition tells us that after St. Lazarus died and was risen from the dead by Christ, he never smiled during the thirty years after his resurrection

He smiled just once but with a very bitter smile when he saw someone stealing a pot from his neighbor. Then he smiled a little and said: „Look, the mud is stealing the mud”

 

[JohnTh]

because we're all fallen. because the devil is very good at distracting us.

---=+ ALL WARFARE IS BASED ON DECEPTION +=---​

If I should post this 1000 times in order to make it more believable, I would gladly do so.

 

[ArmyMatt]

---=+ ALL WARFARE IS BASED ON DECEPTION +=---​

If I should post this 1000 times in order to make it more believable, I would gladly do so.

yep, and it's scarily very true.

 

[zippy2006]

---=+ ALL WARFARE IS BASED ON DECEPTION +=---​

If I should post this 1000 times in order to make it more believable, I would gladly do so.

I didn't realize that the Orthodox held to this view so strongly. Who are some authors on the topic?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I didn't realize that the Orthodox held to this view so strongly. Who are some authors on the topic?

pretty much any ascetic writer. the Philokalia would be a good place to start.

 

[zippy2006]

I do recall the Philokalia treating the management of (evil) thoughts, logismoi, but I do not recall anywhere where spiritual warfare is addressed in the sense of "Not believing thoughts" full-stop, much in the same way John of the Cross might speak of not believing visions. If there is a particular section that addresses this I would love a specific reference. I am currently reading archbishop Hierotheos' Orthodox Psychotherapy, and he does touch on the topic to some degree.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I do recall the Philokalia treating the management of (evil) thoughts, logismoi, but I do not recall anywhere where spiritual warfare is addressed in the sense of "Not believing thoughts" full-stop, much in the same way John of the Cross might speak of not believing visions. If there is a particular section that addresses this I would love a specific reference. I am currently reading archbishop Hierotheos' Orthodox Psychotherapy, and he does touch on the topic to some degree.

how do you think you manage your thoughts?