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Should I use someone’s pronouns if it is not their gender?

RileyG

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I think in the trans community they differentiate between male/female and man/woman. Man/woman is what they believe is more of a social construct while male/female is more biological. Question: if someone changed their name, would you continue to call them by their old name? Another question: does it make you feel good or proud to reject someone's preferred pronoun? Has this ever needed to be applied IRL?
From my perspective, man or woman is NOT a social construct, it's a biological reality. It has nothing to do with me feeling proud, it's about honesty. Names can change, one's biology does not.
 
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rturner76

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From my perspective, man or woman is NOT a social construct, it's a biological reality. It has nothing to do with me feeling proud, it's about honesty. Names can change, one's biology does not.
Why not simply respect another person's wishes? Would it cause you some level of distress to adjust how you address an individual by their preferred pronoun?
 
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Aldebaran

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Why not simply respect another person's wishes? Would it cause you some level of distress to adjust how you address an individual by their preferred pronoun?
Correct! And if someone wishes to refer to me by my actual sex, I will respect them for doing so.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Why not simply respect another person's wishes? Would it cause you some level of distress to adjust how you address an individual by their preferred pronoun?
What would Jesus do?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Why not simply respect another person's wishes? Would it cause you some level of distress to adjust how you address an individual by their preferred pronoun?
1. Because it would be a lie. Lying is bad.
2. Because it enables their delusion. It is not merely a "preference." It is a delusion.
3. Because it adds to the overall "normalization" of a generation already saturated with lies and deception.

If a person "preferred" to be called a cow, a tree, or an extraterrestrial, would you enable that delusion?
If a person decided they were God and demanded to be referred to as the almighty or the creator, would you do this?
I hope you would not. You would not be helping them.
 
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AlexB23

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Picard never wavered. When a landing party came to escort him back to safety, Picard told the Cardassian there were four lights, and he said it with much conviction. I liked that show.
Picard was my favorite captain, and always had proper conviction. By the way, I like Star Trek as well, and watched TNG in 2014. :) Then Voyager in 2014-2015, TOS in 2014-2015 and finally Enterprise in 2017. I couldn't get into DS9 though, as the characters barely got off the space station for the first 4 seasons, so I gave up on Season 5 or so back in 2014 and 2017. So, instead, on this July and August of 2023, am currently on Star Trek: Discovery.
 
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Aldebaran

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Picard was my favorite captain, and always had proper conviction. By the way, I like Star Trek as well, and watched TNG in 2014. :) Then Voyager in 2014-2015, TOS in 2014-2015 and finally Enterprise in 2017. I couldn't get into DS9 though, as the characters barely got off the space station for the first 4 seasons, so I gave up on Season 5 or so back in 2014 and 2017. So, instead, on this July and August of 2023, am currently on Star Trek: Discovery.
At the end of Season 5 of DS9, they were almost all forced off the station.
 
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AlexB23

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At the end of Season 5 of DS9, they were almost all forced off the station.
Fascinating. I guess I should resume DS9 when I finish up discovery. Also, DS9 has very cerebral stuff, which is what like. 8 years ago, my teenage self back then wouldn't have understood everything. Now in my 20s, I'll give DS9 a try again for the third time. Thanks for convincing me to watch DS9 fully from the beginning, Aldebaran. :) Hopefully the guys in DS9's plot get onto USS Defiant soon afterwards.
 
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Aldebaran

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Fascinating. I guess I should resume DS9 when I finish up discovery. Also, DS9 has very cerebral stuff, which is what like. 8 years ago, my teenage self back then wouldn't have understood everything. Now in my 20s, I'll give DS9 a try again for the third time. Thanks for convincing me to watch DS9 fully from the beginning, Aldebaran. :) Hopefully the guys in DS9's plot get onto USS Defiant soon afterwards.
So much I could tell you, but I don't want to ruin it for you..... ;)
 
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AlexB23

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So much I could tell you, but I don't want to ruin it for you..... ;)
Please don't ruin the show for me. :) No spoilers. It is good that fellow Christian Trekkies are here on the forums. Also, I like both Star Trek, and Star Wars, and have since the early 2010s. If only Star Trek had a robot as adorable as R2-D2 with the strange chirping synthetic voices. Though, thankfully the Tribbles from TOS with their purring, an organic lifeform from the outdoes the Star Wars robot R2-D2 in adorableness. Final Verdict: Star Trek > Star Wars.
 
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rturner76

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Because it would be a lie.
Would it be a lie or just different?
Because it enables their delusion. It is not merely a "preference." It is a delusion.
Is it really up to you to dictate that to someone else? For example, could you say someone was lying if they felt depressed or anxious? Is it really up to you to identify someone else? Under who's authority are you acting to not respect someone's pronoun choice?
Because it adds to the overall "normalization" of a generation already saturated with lies and deception.
So it's a personal problem for you not to be able to accept someone who lies as a different gender than they were born?
If a person "preferred" to be called a cow, a tree, or an extraterrestrial, would you enable that delusion?
I don't think they want to be called a cow but they want to adopt male or female culture as their own. I think there is a difference between enabling and accepting someone for who they feel they are. Is it really your job to regulate this choice by not respecting their view of theirself? I guess I'm wondering who put you in charge of this decision to not respect others. Is this political, religious or a social high ground you stand on?
 
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Fireinfolding

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Correct! And if someone wishes to refer to me by my actual sex, I will respect them for doing so.
Psalm
Probably show them the respect they are due. Jesus doesn't really get into LGBTQ issues in the gospels.

The actual acronym for those unnatural lusts is not in scripture.
 
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rturner76

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The actual acronym for those unnatural lusts is not in scripture.
RIght, Jesus doesen't have much to say about it other than love your neighbor as yourself.
 
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ReesePiece23

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I like Tony. He's mastered the art of thread starting and doesn't ever seem to run out of questions.

I've entirely lost respect for the pronoun thing, not only for the confusion it causes to society, but also (and mostly) the disrespect it shows for those who have legitimately struggled to identify themselves and have felt like a stranger in their own bodies.

To quote a good (gay) friend of mine, when I asked him what he thought of gay pride, he said "I prefered it when the world hated us."
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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RIght, Jesus doesen't have much to say about it other than love your neighbor as yourself.
I agree that Jesus did not address LGBTQ issues at all in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The subject never came up, at least what is recorded by the gospels. Jesus did not address bestiality either, it doesn't mean he approved of it. Paul, however, did address homosexual acts in Romans and Christians, at least most of them, believe that Jesus inspired Paul to write the condemnation of homosexual acts. As for confused gender identity nowhere in Jesus' or Paul's words is this condemned and neither is it condemned in any inspired writings, both Old Testament or New. Now when the pre-incarnate Jesus inspired Moses to write the Hebrew Torah, he condemned homosexual acts and condemned those that participate in them to death,
 
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rturner76

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he condemned homosexual acts and condemned those that participate in them to death,
He also condemned women who have been raped in a cith to be stoned to death for not screaming loud enough. Do we really want to live under Levitical law? If trans issues are not addressed by Christ or his Apostles, why not respect them and call them what they live by? Is it up to you to change the minds of transsexual people or live your own life and respect others' way of life?
 
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Saber Truth Tiger

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He also condemned women who have been raped in a cith to be stoned to death for not screaming loud enough. Do we really want to live under Levitical law? If trans issues are not addressed by Christ or his Apostles, why not respect them and call them what they live by? Is it up to you to change the minds of transsexual people or live your own life and respect others' way of life?
I believe homosexual acts are condemned by scripture. And yes, there are some incredibly terrible laws in the Torah. I can't justify in my own mind some of the laws we would have today if we lived under a theocracy that wanted all Hebrew Laws (all 613 of them). You could be killed for just picking up sticks on the Sabbath or eating pork. There are some really crazy laws in the Torah and I do not try to justify them. But in the book of Romans, which is post resurrection of Jesus, the apostle Paul was inspired to condemn homosexual acts.
 
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Lost Witness

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Why not simply respect another person's wishes? Would it cause you some level of distress to adjust how you address an individual by their preferred pronoun?
That would be asking them to lie
 
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rturner76

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That would be asking them to lie
Not if that's what they want to be called. I see it as more that it's being self-righteous and a bit high and mighty. I mean who are you to make that choice for someone else?.
 
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