Should I Return?

[WarriorAngel]

What about Mary and the Saints? isnt it unbiblical to pray for their intercession?

Jesus said there is a second death [hell] and a second life [Heaven]
They are alive.

Also, 'the clouds of Saints are witnesses.'
And the 'Saints will judge nations.'
The 'Saints prayers before the throne of the Lord are like incense.' [a costly perfume in ancient times]
and it shows they are in Heaven praying.
Also we are told to pray for one another because it's loving of others.
There is no love on earth like the Saints are enjoying in His Presence.

They know what's up, they pray, and they are fully alive and loving.

Ancient tombs in the Catacombs of Rome [1st century Christians] have written on their tombs for Our Lady to pray for them.

If ya dig more into archeology [I love that stuff] especially the Catacombs, you will see altars, icons, and prayers for Our Lady to pray for the souls of the departed.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Do you believe Jesus is also in the Lutheran Communion? Why or why not?

I believe in invincible ignorance.
It’s not a fault that people were misled 500 years ago in these times.
I believe we’re United in baptism but I don’t believe that they can consecrate the Eucharist.
They believe they can, no doubt, but Luther was unable to ordain predecessors to do so.
Only Bishops have that authorization and he couldn’t do it.
So lacking the ability or authority the Eucharist is not consecrated.

Desire to do so does not make it so.

I believe they believe in the Lord Jesus and I believe they have intent to follow Him. I believe their hearts are in the right place.
However; the truth is that you can only find the actual consecrated Eucharist in the Catholic Church.
East or West.

 

[FaithT]

I believe in invincible ignorance.
It’s not a fault that people were misled 500 years ago in these times.
I believe we’re United in baptism but I don’t believe that they can consecrate the Eucharist.
They believe they can, no doubt, but Luther was unable to ordain predecessors to do so.
Only Bishops have that authorization and he couldn’t do it.
So lacking the ability or authority the Eucharist is not consecrated.

Desire to do so does not make it so.

I believe they believe in the Lord Jesus and I believe they have intent to follow Him. I believe their hearts are in the right place.
However; the truth is that you can only find the actual consecrated Eucharist in the Catholic Church.
East or West.

Yes, but how does one know a priest consecrates the Eucharist while a Lutheran pastor can’t? Both depend on the words in the Bible but Catholics also go by Tradition. How can one be certain Tradition is truth?

Ive got Catholics telling me one thing, Lutherans telling me another. Both sound reasonable.

 

[Michie]

This is going nowhere imo. You got to ask God to help you and go from there.


Cardinal Newman Said, “To Be Deep in History Is to Cease to Be Protestant.” Why Don’t More Protestant Historians Become Catholic?

 

[FaithT]

This is going nowhere imo. You got to ask God to help you and go from there.


Cardinal Newman Said, “To Be Deep in History Is to Cease to Be Protestant.” Why Don’t More Protestant Historians Become Catholic?

What makes you think that I haven’t?

 

[Michie]

What makes you think that I haven’t?

Then you need to pray and discern. If you want to make it a tug of war by asking these things on the internet ( Lutheran and Catholic), it’s a waste of time. You should be consulting clergy on both sides. Ask God for wisdom and discernment. But asking these questions constantly does not seem to be doing you any good. Go to RCIA, no obligation. Make an appointment with a Catholic priest, make an appointment with a Lutheran pastor, read up, do some homework and pray and figure it out. The decision is ultimately up to you. Either you seek understanding or you seek the debate. You have to figure it out. You said you were Catholic at one time. Nobody can do it for you. I’m a convert. That’s what most of us have to do.

 

[FaithT]

Then you need to pray and discern. If you want to make it a tug of war by asking these things on the internet, it’s a waste of time. You should be consulting clergy on both sides. Ask God for wisdom and discernment. But asking these questions constantly does not seem to be doing you any good. Go to RCIA, no obligation. Make an appointment with a Catholic priest, make an appointment with a Lutheran pastor, read up, do some homework and pray and figure it out. The decision is ultimately up to you. Either you seek understanding or you seek the debate. You have to figure it out. Nobody can do it for you. I’m a convert. That’s what most of us have to do.

I had a second appointment with a priest which I canceled since the first appointment didn’t help. he said I can still come in anytime. I did try to set up an appointment with my Lutheran pastor but since we’re going out of town in the near future he said he’d just see me when we get back.

 

[Michie]

I had a second appointment with a priest which I canceled since the first appointment didn’t help. he said I can still come in anytime. I did try to set up an appointment with my Lutheran pastor but since we’re going out of town in the near future he said he’d just see me when we get back.

Do the real life stuff. Figure it out. First it’s been because you are bored, music, etc. Set your priorities for the truth. Praying for you in the meantime.

 

[FaithT]

Do the real life stuff. Figure it out. First it’s been because you are bored, music, etc. Set your priorities for the truth. Praying for you in the meantime.

The problem is, Lutherans will say their faith is true and Catholic teaching isn’t.

 

[RileyG]

Yes, but how does one know a priest consecrates the Eucharist while a Lutheran pastor can’t? Both depend on the words in the Bible but Catholics also go by Tradition. How can one be certain Tradition is truth?

Ive got Catholics telling me one thing, Lutherans telling me another. Both sound reasonable.

Lutheran ministers do not have valid apostolic orders. Luther was just a priest. He had no power to consecrate bishops. Their only valid sacrament is baptism and in some cases, marriage. Luther founded a new religion based on his own interpretation of Scripture. He even wanted to cut books of out the NT!

 

[Michie]

The problem is, Lutherans will say their faith is true and Catholic teaching isn’t.

No the problem is, you must weigh the evidence and discern on your own with God’s help as well as the clergy face to face. You have to work it out. It’s too important a situation to use it as fodder on the internet as a contest between Catholics and Lutherans. It’s up to you. Either you feel called to come home or you don’t. But these things are serious. If you take it seriously you are going to take responsibility and look into it with the proper guidance. I can just say that guidance is not on the internet as a topic of debate. You need to take it seriously and work it out. You can get support on your journey after you have made your own choice.

 

[RileyG]

No the problem is, you must weigh the evidence and discern on your own with God’s help as well as the clergy face to face. You have to work it out. It’s too important a situation to use it as fodder on the internet as a contest between Catholics and Lutherans. It’s up to you. Either you feel called to come home or you don’t. But these things are serious. If you take it serious you are going to take responsibility and look into it with the proper guidance. I can just say that guidance is not the Internet.

Agreed. We cannot make the decision for you.

OP- Talk with both a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastor.

Prayers for the OP.

 

[FaithT]

Agreed. We cannot make the decision for you.

OP- Talk with both a Catholic priest and Lutheran pastor.

Prayers for the OP.

I’ve been to speak with a priest plus briefly discussed this in confession as well. No help. And I’m planning on talking with my Lutheran pastor but pretty much know what he’s going to say. Both sides are biased.
I made the mistake of coming here looking for some help from non clergy. Guess I’ve learned my lesson.

 

[RileyG]

I’ve been to speak with a priest plus briefly discussed this in confession as well. No help. And I’m planning on talking with my Lutheran pastor but pretty much know what he’s going to say. Both sides are biased.
I made the mistake of coming here looking for some help from non clergy. Guess I’ve learned my lesson.

Study the early Church and pray.

God bless

My prayers are with you

 

[Michie]

I’ve been to speak with a priest plus briefly discussed this in confession as well. No help. And I’m planning on talking with my Lutheran pastor but pretty much know what he’s going to say. Both sides are biased.
I made the mistake of coming here looking for some help from non clergy. Guess I’ve learned my lesson.

Of course both sides are biased. You have to weight the evidence yourself. Take some responsibility. You have gotten a lot of good evidence here. I do not understand what you expect. Pray and do the work.

 

[RileyG]

Study the early Church. I say it again, study the early Church. Look at how the Church developed and look at the canon of Scripture. That's important.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

I’ve been to speak with a priest plus briefly discussed this in confession as well. No help. And I’m planning on talking with my Lutheran pastor but pretty much know what he’s going to say. Both sides are biased.
I made the mistake of coming here looking for some help from non clergy. Guess I’ve learned my lesson.

what kind of help did you want? Seriously. Did you want us to say that Luther had a valid argument, when we know his theology to be false? Luther turned his back of Christ’s Church and formed one of his own in his image, not Christ’s.
The preaching of faith alone leads to indifferentism with regards to sin, when all true children that call God father are horrified by sin. Life is a continual battle to die to self and live for Christ. Luther tells you the you don’t have to fight, just believe and all will be fine. If you take that path, you will not like where it leads. You will stand before Christ and He will say I don’t know you, unless you repent of your sin, all of your sin.
The rest that Jesus promises us is not giving up the fight against sin, which is what Luther teaches. Luther says the Christian life is easy, just believe, but that is not true. Christ says that you have to give up your whole life to follow Him. The rest that He offers you is not giving up the fight and ignoring sin, rather rest from the futility of sin’s promises. All the pleasures of this world lead nowhere, so don’t chase them.
If you believe Luther and say a holy life is impossible and futile, just believe Jesus instead, you will miss the mark. God says be perfect as I am perfect, be holy as I am holy. You think that is too hard and you are right, but God gave you the promise, whatever you ask of Me I will give you. Do you ask Him for grace for repentance and holiness or do you just want your ears tickled? The path of Luther is self esteem, the true path of Catholic teaching is humility. We are constantly asking for holiness which is why we have the sacraments.
No one can make your choice for you, and I can say that God does not force you to follow Him. His followers love Him freely. You have a choice, save your life to lose it, or lose your life to save it. Christ died to give you that choice. He did not die to allow you to sin and say repenting is too hard

 

[WarriorAngel]

I’ve been to speak with a priest plus briefly discussed this in confession as well. No help. And I’m planning on talking with my Lutheran pastor but pretty much know what he’s going to say. Both sides are biased.
I made the mistake of coming here looking for some help from non clergy. Guess I’ve learned my lesson.

So after a great experience at Mass I had a hunger to 'know' more. [Returning Catholic BTW]
So I sharpened iron against iron in General Theology until I was forced to search and find all of the history on the Church.

After several years of reading the Church fathers [and the background of Luther and most break offs in history], it became more evident to me that not only couldn't Luther ordain others, and left Apostolic succession, but he was angry at ethnic groups [Jews] and he attacked the Popes Chair but he himself made himself a pope of kind.
"We're gonna do it my way..."
His own friend said if you keep taking books out of canon, you won't have anything left.

He was angry at indulgences which are in Maccabbees so he removed Maccabbees and then all the Koine Greek of the OT and then started going after St James. He pretty much 'created' his own ideas of what he felt scriptures were to mean.
He became paranoid. Even a lunatic at times. He became angry and boastful.

Martin Luther: hero, but no saint

1. He left the Church and could not understand why others who did the same just couldn't keep up with believing the Eucharist as the Body and Blood.
[well, if one makes a break from a history of one teaching and others follow - then it means all are free to pick and choose as it stands to reason.]
2. He decided indulgences were unnecessary, ignoring the festival of lights Hannukah and hating the Jews. [Maccabbees = Hannukah]
3. His hatred for his own father led him to rebel. He became his father.
4. He debated Calvin and Zwigli who also formed their own Churches. The more he became his own teacher, and not historical teaching, the more the protest against the ancient Church led to many new denominations growing and rising in numbers since.
5. He attacked the Papacy but demanded people follow his ways. Kind of ironic.

I don't describe him because I dislike him, I have read who is was a few times.
So all in all, in the end 'We know them by the fruits if from the Holy Spirit.'
Yet, the Lord never said to break away from His teachings.
Peter warned about such things.

The problem is you may need to research starting with the 1st century is the only way to figure out legit teaching.

FWIW - Jesus travelled to celebrate the festival of lights [Hannukah] and had Jesus disagreed with giving silver to the Temple for the dead - I'm absolutely certain He would have said something.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I’ve been to speak with a priest plus briefly discussed this in confession as well. No help. And I’m planning on talking with my Lutheran pastor but pretty much know what he’s going to say. Both sides are biased.
I made the mistake of coming here looking for some help from non clergy. Guess I’ve learned my lesson.

You have people praying for you here. And you asked a bunch of questions and got reasonable answers. It’s just that we are not able to make the decision for you. No priest or Lutheran minister can do that for you either.

You might be ready to decide, or not be ready yet. Your indecision makes me think things are not yet ripe for you to decide. There are probably more facts to consider but there is more importantly listening to God and being brave enough to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. It’s a really big decision. It needs discernment even to lead you to ask the right questions. We are praying for you. You will get there with diligence and faith, maybe not today or tomorrow, but in God’s good time if you seek with a pure desire to be faithful to your baptismal calling to be the daughter of God that you were originally called in baptism to be.

 

[FaithT]

You have people praying for you here. And you asked a bunch of questions and got reasonable answers. It’s just that we are not able to make the decision for you. No priest or Lutheran minister can do that for you either.

You might be ready to decide, or not be ready yet. Your indecision makes me think things are not yet ripe for you to decide. There are probably more facts to consider but there is more importantly listening to God and being brave enough to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit. It’s a really big decision. It needs discernment even to lead you to ask the right questions. We are praying for you. You will get there with diligence and faith, maybe not today or tomorrow, but in God’s good time if you seek with a pure desire to be faithful to your baptismal calling to be the daughter of God that you were originally called in baptism to be.

Thank you!