Should I continue attending church?

[Neostarwcc]

So I found out today because my mom did some looking up on Facebook that one of my churches deacons sells Firearms. In fact he is a huge gun nut, I never knew this I mostly only talked to the guy about budgeting and he's been helping my wife and I out financially because we're quite poor and can't afford the hike in gas prices. It's been getting quite costly to go to church every week.

In fact he even sells military weaponry. My mom is Catholic with odd views but she told me one of God's commandments were to not kill. And she's saying that nobody with a position in the church should sell high powered rifles to 18 year olds. I hate to say it but I agree with her and I'm getting a little reluctant on going to church tomorrow or ever attending church again. It's true he is not an Elder or anything and there is another deacon I could ask for help in the church. It's just... I'm so used to talking to Matt. He always says hi to my wife and I every Sunday and he's not a bad guy. I just feel uncomfortable that he is putting high powered rifles that should be for our police force and military and not in the hands of some psychotic eighteen year old. What should I do?

 

[jacks]

Yes, continue to attend church. If you really feel you must do something, just have a private discussion with him about your concerns.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Unless he is breaking the law, but has been kind and helpful to you. Not sure why you would break fellowship

But if it is that much an issue I would hope you sit and have an open discussion with him, pray together and then find a church you can agree with.

 

[GenemZ]

In fact he even sells military weaponry. My mom is Catholic with odd views but she told me one of God's commandments were to not kill.

Its does not say" kill" in the Hebrew. The Hebrew speaks of homicide. To murder their fellow man.

For, why would God give the Jews a command not to kill? And, then shortly after, Moses commands Israel to be made ready for war?

Jesus also said the following...

“When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe." Lk 11:21​

We all need to be careful who we obey. We need to obey the Word of God above the traditions and opinions of religious men.

grace and peace .......

 

[Saucy]

There are a lot of misconceptions about AR-15s. They are not super high-powered weapons. There's no such thing as an "assault weapon." The AR stands for "ArmaLite Rifle" They are semi-automatic just like any other hunting rifle sold to consumers. They just look pretty. The military does not issue AR-15s to soldiers because they are limited, which means these are not "weapons of war" like you hear people in the media talk about. The military gets automatic weapons, which are illegal for gun owners to have.

If you are not a fan of guns, that's perfectly fine. You don't need to be. But at least do a bit of research before judging someone for owning them. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells us “he that has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.” Why is Jesus advocating for people to buy a weapon for defense? Of course, swords aren't adequate for defense today.

As others suggested, maybe get closer to him. Talk to him a bit. Bring up the subject of guns. Maybe he can help educate you a bit. If you're interested, he might even let you shoot one at a range. Again, there's nothing wrong with being against guns, but there's nothing wrong with being a 2A supporter and owning/selling them as long as it's done legally. People use guns for all sorts of things.

 

[Cormack]

It's just... I'm so used to talking to Matt. He always says hi to my wife and I every Sunday and he's not a bad guy.

I’d rather spend my time with a nice man who sold guns than a jerk who sold child safety locks. Judge him on his kind conduct around you, not based upon high minded consequences to do with guns and the Jewish law.

Guns are the hot button topic right now, and every blowhard and every wind of doctrine is going to shake up friendships or test familial relations at this point.

Don’t let the next in thing ruin or upset the flow of your life, because there’s gonna be a lot of in things and lots of water cooler talk. Be calm, don’t bite, do that and move towards a more stable life.

Think better of him based upon his good conduct.

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’​

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’​

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”​

 

[Cormack]

In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells us “he that has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.” Why is Jesus advocating for people to buy a weapon for defense? Of course, swords aren't adequate for defense.

Apart from this point I largely liked your post. In that portion of scripture Jesus isn’t advocating that His followers buy swords for the sake of self defence, in fact, only a short time later He reprimands Peter for trying to defend Him with one of those swords (Luke 22:49-51.)

Rather, Jesus has the swords brought to Him in fulfilment of Isaiah 53, notice in Luke 22 Christ brings up the wording in Isaiah and applies it to Himself:

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That’s enough!” he replied.
​

Jesus argues from Isaiah 53:

For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
​

The two swords material is prophecy, not permission to bear arms. So though He “had done no violence,” the wicked powers only needed two swords for their trumped up charges, He’s then wrongly “numbered with the transgressors.”

Apart from that I felt your message was very charitable and commonsensical, I hope @Neostarwcc preserves his friendship.

 

[bèlla]

Friendships and familial connections were destroyed over politics…then the virus…now race and guns are the latest irritants. When will we learn?

He’s shown a genuine interest in your welfare and is aiding you both. How many people who share your views are doing the same? Is your well-being and fellowship a priority?

 

[GenemZ]

Friendships and familial connections were destroyed over politics…then the virus…now race and guns are the latest irritants. When will we learn?

He’s shown a genuine interest in your welfare and is aiding you both. How many people who share your views are doing the same? Is your well-being and fellowship a priority?

When will we learn that we are here on earth? Have been placed here to be baptized into a battle between good and evil?

Having unrealistic expectations causes some to lose hope and become depressed .. even suicidal.

Once we can accept the presence of evil as a normal, and expected, part of this life? Then we can take a realistic stand by keeping the Lord's Word as our confidence in this world to 'restrain' evil.

Its why false teaching is so detrimental. It can get others killed because of a stand based upon stupid assumptions. Stands based upon subjective sentimental wishful thinking by distorting the Word of God

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid." Prov 12:1​

grace and peace .............

 

[Saucy]

Apart from this point I largely liked your post. In that portion of scripture Jesus isn’t advocating that His followers buy swords for the sake of self defence, in fact, only a short time later He reprimands Peter for trying to defend Him with one of those swords (Luke 22:49-51.)

Rather, Jesus has the swords brought to Him in fulfilment of Isaiah 53, notice in Luke 22 Christ brings up the wording in Isaiah and applies it to Himself:

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That’s enough!” he replied.
​

Jesus argues from Isaiah 53:

For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was punished. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
​

The two swords material is prophecy, not permission to bear arms. So though He “had done no violence,” the wicked powers only needed two swords for their trumped up charges, He’s then wrongly “numbered with the transgressors.”

Apart from that I felt your message was very charitable and commonsensical, I hope @Neostarwcc preserves his friendship.

Thank you for sharing that! I didn't know that. I understand Jesus told Peter to put away his sword because His time was about to be fulfilled. And I also don't think they needed earthly protection in that way.

 

[Neostarwcc]

There are a lot of misconceptions about AR-15s. They are not super high-powered weapons. There's no such thing as an "assault weapon." The AR stands for "ArmaLite Rifle" They are semi-automatic just like any other hunting rifle sold to consumers. They just look pretty. The military does not issue AR-15s to soldiers because they are limited, which means these are not "weapons of war" like you hear people in the media talk about. The military gets automatic weapons, which are illegal for gun owners to have.

If you are not a fan of guns, that's perfectly fine. You don't need to be. But at least do a bit of research before judging someone for owning them. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells us “he that has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.” Why is Jesus advocating for people to buy a weapon for defense? Of course, swords aren't adequate for defense today.

As others suggested, maybe get closer to him. Talk to him a bit. Bring up the subject of guns. Maybe he can help educate you a bit. If you're interested, he might even let you shoot one at a range. Again, there's nothing wrong with being against guns, but there's nothing wrong with being a 2A supporter and owning/selling them as long as it's done legally. People use guns for all sorts of things.

I don't know, it makes me uncomfortable but like other people said maybe I should voice my concerns to him personally. That or just deal with the other deacon.

He does sell them legally as far as I know. I don't know New York state gun laws and if he's allowed to sell semi automatic weapons or not. But thank you for educating me on AR 15s. They're still weapons no 18 year old should have. My mom is so anti gun it took a lot of convincing to allow her to buy me a BB gun even so it kind of rubbed off on me.

A person who is supposed to be representing the church and is supposed to be a man of God idk they shouldn't sell guns imo.

 

[GenemZ]

Apart from this point I largely liked your post. In that portion of scripture Jesus isn’t advocating that His followers buy swords for the sake of self defence, in fact, only a short time later He reprimands Peter for trying to defend Him with one of those swords (Luke 22:49-51.)

Jesus reprimanded Peter for behaving like a criminal.

What Peter did would be like someone today trying to shoot a policeman who was making making an arrest.

Thieves in that day "lived by the sword." That was what Jesus told Peter.

Jesus ultimately told Peter to keep his sword and to place it back in its sheath.

 

[Saucy]

I don't know, it makes me uncomfortable but like other people said maybe I should voice my concerns to him personally. That or just deal with the other deacon.

He does sell them legally as far as I know. I don't know New York state gun laws and if he's allowed to sell semi automatic weapons or not. But thank you for educating me on AR 15s. They're still weapons no 18 year old should have. My mom is so anti gun it took a lot of convincing to allow her to buy me a BB gun even so it kind of rubbed off on me.

A person who is supposed to be representing the church and is supposed to be a man of God idk they shouldn't sell guns imo.

I do not mean for thus to come across as rude, but nowhere is that a requirement for church leaders. It's a personal opinion. Church leaders have enough on them already and don't need additional standards that arent biblical placed on them.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So I found out today because my mom did some looking up on Facebook that one of my churches deacons sells Firearms. In fact he is a huge gun nut, I never knew this I mostly only talked to the guy about budgeting and he's been helping my wife and I out financially because we're quite poor and can't afford the hike in gas prices. It's been getting quite costly to go to church every week.

In fact he even sells military weaponry. My mom is Catholic with odd views but she told me one of God's commandments were to not kill. And she's saying that nobody with a position in the church should sell high powered rifles to 18 year olds. I hate to say it but I agree with her and I'm getting a little reluctant on going to church tomorrow or ever attending church again. It's true he is not an Elder or anything and there is another deacon I could ask for help in the church. It's just... I'm so used to talking to Matt. He always says hi to my wife and I every Sunday and he's not a bad guy. I just feel uncomfortable that he is putting high powered rifles that should be for our police force and military and not in the hands of some psychotic eighteen year old. What should I do?

Additionally, they must first be tested. Then, if they are above reproach, let them serve as deacons. (1 Timothy 3:10)

If you feel this person who is a deacon is not above reproach, you should bring this up with the church leadership.

In the US, guns aren't really an issue (regarding reproach). However, using church as a means to sell merchandise, might be considered scandalous in any country.

 

[GenemZ]

The real issue is....

How can the one world power brokers disarm Americans? They can only come up with irrational - emotion driven - demands that make no sense in light of what the problem really is.

It needs to become mental illness control.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

So I found out today because my mom did some looking up on Facebook that one of my churches deacons sells Firearms. In fact he is a huge gun nut, I never knew this I mostly only talked to the guy about budgeting and he's been helping my wife and I out financially because we're quite poor and can't afford the hike in gas prices. It's been getting quite costly to go to church every week.

In fact he even sells military weaponry. My mom is Catholic with odd views but she told me one of God's commandments were to not kill. And she's saying that nobody with a position in the church should sell high powered rifles to 18 year olds. I hate to say it but I agree with her and I'm getting a little reluctant on going to church tomorrow or ever attending church again. It's true he is not an Elder or anything and there is another deacon I could ask for help in the church. It's just... I'm so used to talking to Matt. He always says hi to my wife and I every Sunday and he's not a bad guy. I just feel uncomfortable that he is putting high powered rifles that should be for our police force and military and not in the hands of some psychotic eighteen year old. What should I do?

I doubt he is intentionally selling arms to fractured young adults. He may need a bit of guidance from you. Gun nuts do not build the Kingdom of God. Maybe advocate for God's will instead. Blessings

 

[GenemZ]

I doubt he is intentionally selling arms to fractured young adults. He may need a bit of guidance from you. Gun nuts do not build the Kingdom of God. Maybe advocate for God's will instead. Blessings

Interesting fact I learned since moving down south...one gun shop here in Georgia is owned by a retired policeman. Real "nut."

The first thing Zelensky did when Russia began invading Ukraine was to distribute weapons to its citizenry. Imagine if they were already armed?

 

[Saucy]

I doubt he is intentionally selling arms to fractured young adults. He may need a bit of guidance from you. Gun nuts do not build the Kingdom of God. Maybe advocate for God's will instead. Blessings

These so-called "gun nuts" are people, just like anyone else. Again, we are pushing political bias and personal opinion onto church leaders and it's not necessary. You can't find a single scripture that says a church leader cannot sell weapons. It is his job and how he feeds his family.

You also cannot prove that owning firearms or being a "gun-nut" prohibits any Christian from building the Kingdom of God. My pastor is a "gun-nut." He used to be a part of the militia here and gave that up to become our head pastor, but still owns many guns. We have a men's outing at his place once a year, which includes a bible study, then we shoot at targets. Many people in our church own guns and conceal carry while at church. It's not some kind of evil obsession. They just believe in their right to carry. And they do build the kingdom in many ways.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

These so-called "gun nuts" are people, just like anyone else. Again, we are pushing political bias and personal opinion onto church leaders and it's not necessary. You can't find a single scripture that says a church leader cannot sell weapons. It is his job and how he feeds his family.

You also cannot prove that owning firearms or being a "gun-nut" prohibits any Christian from building the Kingdom of God. My pastor is a "gun-nut." He used to be a part of the militia here and gave that up to become our head pastor, but still owns many guns. We have a men's outing at his place once a year, which includes a bible study, then we shoot at targets. Many people in our church own guns and conceal carry while at church. It's not some kind of evil obsession. They just believe in their right to carry. And they do build the kingdom in many ways.

It is an absolute contradiction to the Kingdom of God to carry guns into a congregation. There is no fruit from the Holy Spirit being displayed shooting at targets. Just think of how many people can be helped with food, clothing and shelter if all your men sold their arms. But alas, Jesus Christ of Nazareth said it would be very difficult to follow Him with only the Word of God as their sword.

Lay down arms for the sake of the Kingdom of God.
Blessings.

 

[PloverWing]

So I found out today because my mom did some looking up on Facebook that one of my churches deacons sells Firearms.

The cluster of issues surrounding guns -- whether it is acceptable to use violence in defense of self or others, whether it is acceptable to provide another person with a gun without being able to control what that person will do with the gun, and so on -- are issues about which Christians disagree. Some Christians see the use of lethal violence against another person as a violation of the command to love our enemies. Others see themselves as protecting the innocent from harm, committing violence to prevent greater violence.

Part of living together in the body of Christ is learning to appreciate the perspectives of our fellow Christians. Don't stop going to church over this unless it truly is a deal-breaker for you.

As others have suggested, I think it could be a good idea to invite the deacon to chat with you about it over coffee. Only do this if it can be a respectful chat, in which you try to appreciate each other's points of view. Maybe you could ask him about what precautions he takes when selling to a customer. How does he "size up" a potential customer? Has he ever refused to sell a weapon to someone? What made him say "no"? That might be a way to have a respectful conversation about this very volatile topic.