Should Forgiveness Be Conditional?

[RebirthDefender]

Mat 18:21-35 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

REMEMBER that this parable was told to Peter in response to his question about how many times he should forgive his brother--this is a parable for Christians--the guy in the parable represents who Peter will be if he continues on his path of not wanting to forgive others. What is Jesus' message to Peter? "If you do not unconditionally forgive your brethren then God the Father will take back his conditional forgiveness of you, as the king in the parable did."

 

[Pac Shady]

Mat 18:21-35 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? 22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. 23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

REMEMBER that this parable was told to Peter in response to his question about how many times he should forgive his brother--this is a parable for Christians--the guy in the parable represents who Peter will be if he continues on his path of not wanting to forgive others. What is Jesus' message to Peter? "If you do not unconditionally forgive your brethren then God the Father will take back his conditional forgiveness of you, as the king in the parable did."

But where does it say the forgiveness is "unconditional"?

In fact, it suggests it IS conditional, since the forgiveness is only offered AFTER the other begs to be given time to repay. Sounds pretty conditional to me. For if it was unconditional, why would the king be ready to sell the servant and his family? He would have already forgiven the servant. But there was a condition on the forgiveness, even if that condition was simply asking for it.

'Shady

 

[homewardbound]

But where does it say the forgiveness is "unconditional"?

In fact, it suggests it IS conditional, since the forgiveness is only offered AFTER the other begs to be given time to repay. Sounds pretty conditional to me. For if it was unconditional, why would the king be ready to sell the servant and his family? He would have already forgiven the servant. But there was a condition on the forgiveness, even if that condition was simply asking for it.

'Shady

Forgiveness is a complex issue because in some instances it's transactional in nature and at other times it isn't. The bible clearly supports both conditional and unconditional forgiveness.

Conditional forgiveness is transactional and is called for when the offense is serious enough to drive a wedge in your relationship with someone...because that's the only way reconciliation can take place. Conditional forgiveness is also appropriate if by forgiving someone unconditionally you would cause them to continue sinning. Conditional forgiveness is also appropriate for serious offenses against more than one person (Hitler, bin Laden, etc. for example).

Unconditional forgiveness should be offered any time the offense is trivial, unintentional, or done out of ignorance. It's also appropriate if the offense is against you alone and your unforgiveness causes you to be bitter, resentful, gossip, wish harm to another, or harbor harsh feelings.

Forgiveness offers evidence of the Holy Sprit in us. It heals us and others and should always be offered, whether conditionally or unconditionally, over and over and over....just as Jesus tells us in Matthew 18.

 

[linssue55]

Should we only forgive someone under certain conditions. Is it just if we chose not to forgive someone if they don't apologize? Is it ok to not forgive even if someone sincerely apologizes?

No, we forgive as Christ forgave...we forgive everything!!!

 

[Pac Shady]

Forgiveness is a complex issue because in some instances it's transactional in nature and at other times it isn't. The bible clearly supports both conditional and unconditional forgiveness.

Conditional forgiveness is transactional and is called for when the offense is serious enough to drive a wedge in your relationship with someone...because that's the only way reconciliation can take place. Conditional forgiveness is also appropriate if by forgiving someone unconditionally you would cause them to continue sinning. Conditional forgiveness is also appropriate for serious offenses against more than one person (Hitler, bin Laden, etc. for example).

Unconditional forgiveness should be offered any time the offense is trivial, unintentional, or done out of ignorance. It's also appropriate if the offense is against you alone and your unforgiveness causes you to be bitter, resentful, gossip, wish harm to another, or harbor harsh feelings.

Forgiveness offers evidence of the Holy Sprit in us. It heals us and others and should always be offered, whether conditionally or unconditionally, over and over and over....just as Jesus tells us in Matthew 18.

This sounds pretty much what I've been getting at. But do you have Scriptural references for what you've said, that would help Thanks

God Bless

'Shady

 

[homewardbound]

This sounds pretty much what I've been getting at. But do you have Scriptural references for what you've said, that would help Thanks

God Bless

'Shady

You bet....

Unconditional forgiveness: Gen 45:4-5; Luke 23:34; Acts 59-60; Prov 17:9; Mark 11:25

Conditional forgiveness: Luke 17:3; Mat 18:15-20; 1 Cor 5 (entire chapter speaks of expelling the unrepentant)

I recently read a good article on forgiveness which stated that where a confrontation is called for, forgiveness is conditional. If a confrontations isn't appropriate or called for, forgiveness is to be unconditional.

The bottom line is that God knows whether or not we have a forgiving heart. I think I'll err on the side of caution.

 

[king-priest]

Forgiveness is unconditional period. Most people want an answer to justify that it is ok not to forgive someone. And most people prefer a quick answer without having to search the scriptures and study for themselves.
If anyone really wants the answer I suggest study the doctrine of love.
You will find it under impersonal love for all mankind called agape. Which is what God had for us when He sent His Son to die for us.John 3:16
It is also used again as a commandment to love each other. So therefore we are to follow His example of love.
Love upholds justice. It gives the ability to execute judgement and mercy. All sin can be forgiven because what Christ has done. But in the governing of people it is required of us to execute judgement, the difference between reckoning and revenge is that revenge is done through one's personal satisfaction, whereas reckoning is executed based upon the upholding of God's divine order.Herein freedom lies for the individual.
On a personal level we are suppose to forgive unconditionaly;but concerning the governing of people we are still to execute justice in order to protect freedom.

 

[bliz]

Forgivness by it's very nature is unconditional.

However, forgivness is often not a one time, over & done, action. When I hear people who have had a great wrong done to them - a cheating spouse, a loved one harmed or murdered - and within days or hours of the event they are saying "I've forgiven them." I simply do not buy it. At that point, the injured party has not begun to come to terms with the harm that was done. We are unable to forgive harm when we do not know the harm has been done.

I'm thinking of a friend after her divorce. Her husband had been rather hurtful on the way out the door... and she had forgiven that. Later she learned that he had been having an affiar while they were married. Ouch. That's a whole other matter to realize and forgive. Later she learned he was having an affair with a student she was coaching. OUCH! Back to square one with forgiving...

We cannot forgive something if we don't know about it - either becasue the information is not there yet, or because we have not fully realized the impact. A fried of mine lost a child to a drunk driver. She worked hard toward forgiving him... but she found as other girls the age her daughter would have been move through their lives, there were fresh wounds all over again. She had forgiven him for taking away her beautiful child... but when the daughters of friends went to the prom for the first time... went away to college... married... had children... the need to forgive was there again, layer after layer.

 

[homewardbound]

Forgivness by it's very nature is unconditional.

However, forgivness is often not a one time, over & done, action. When I hear people who have had a great wrong done to them - a cheating spouse, a loved one harmed or murdered - and within days or hours of the event they are saying "I've forgiven them." I simply do not buy it. At that point, the injured party has not begun to come to terms with the harm that was done. We are unable to forgive harm when we do not know the harm has been done.

I'm thinking of a friend after her divorce. Her husband had been rather hurtful on the way out the door... and she had forgiven that. Later she learned that he had been having an affiar while they were married. Ouch. That's a whole other matter to realize and forgive. Later she learned he was having an affair with a student she was coaching. OUCH! Back to square one with forgiving...

We cannot forgive something if we don't know about it - either becasue the information is not there yet, or because we have not fully realized the impact. A fried of mine lost a child to a drunk driver. She worked hard toward forgiving him... but she found as other girls the age her daughter would have been move through their lives, there were fresh wounds all over again. She had forgiven him for taking away her beautiful child... but when the daughters of friends went to the prom for the first time... went away to college... married... had children... the need to forgive was there again, layer after layer.

I would agree that forgiveness by nature is unconditional, but there are times where it should be granted conditionally. Your example of marital infidelity is perfect. In order for forgiveness to help mend a broken relationship, it needs to be conditional. But let's say the unfaithful spouse leaves the marriage, does that mean the remaining spouse can remain unforgiving? No, but in that case forgiveness is offered through Jesus Christ as a way to bring closure and enable the offended party to move forward without resentment, bitterness, or hate. It's for spiritual healing rather than relationship healing.

In all this discussion about forgiveness, I have to confess that I don't know how I'd forgive someone if they killed one of my kids while driving drunk. We see instances every day where gross injustices occur and I always find myself wondering how those people forgive...and yet I know that if they don't, they'll end up miserable....think of how many times have you seen the families of crime victims express their contempt and hatred of the person who committed the crime. I just hope and pray I'm never in that situation.

 

[bliz]

I would agree that forgiveness by nature is unconditional, but there are times where it should be granted conditionally. Your example of marital infidelity is perfect. In order for forgiveness to help mend a broken relationship, it needs to be conditional.

I simply do not understand what you are saying. Please elaborate in the case of infidelity by one spouse.

 

[homewardbound]

I simply do not understand what you are saying. Please elaborate in the case of infidelity by one spouse.

Sure, no problem. If infidelity occurs in a marriage, forgiveness is going to have to take place in order for the relationship to be repaired. That type of forgiveness is conditional because it requires the offending spouse to express remorse before the full transaction of forgiveness can be completed. That's why I mentioned earlier (I know this is a long thread so I don't blame you if you haven't read all of it) that forgiveness is tranactional in certain cases. Another example of conditional forgiveness is where someone dishonors your church. That also requires repentance before full forgiveness can be given. A third example is God's forgiveness of our sins, which depends on our repentance. In all three examples a relationship is involved.

Going back to the infidelity example, let's assume the spouse who committed the infidelity leaves the marriage without expressing remorse for his or her actions. There is no longer a relationship involved, or if there is one it will be drastically different. So does that mean the spouse who was faithful doesn't have to forgive? No, not at all...that's where unconditional forgiveness comes in to play because that's the type of forgiveness that mends the spirit. But it's purpose and it's characteristics will be different.

Relationships that are damaged or broken by a breach of trust or other sin by one of the parties require conditional forgiveness in order to be restored fully. If that's not possible for some reason (unrepentance, absence, lack of awareness for example), then unconditional forgiveness is offered through Jesus Christ in order to keep our relationship with God intact. However, it doesn't mean the relationship with the other person is restored. In fact it could be irrevocably damaged if the offending party never expresses remorse.

 

[bliz]

I think I'm having trouble with the use of the word "conditional".

Conditional forgivness, to me, means that if X repents, then Y can/will forgive. But that flies in the face of forgivness. Forgivness does not require that the party who did wrong repent. "I'll forgive him as soon as he says he's sorry." That's not forgivness. I am required to forgive even if the offending party doesn't think they have done anything wrong.

Now, reconciliation would require repentence, but forgivness does not require it.

 

[Crusader_4_Christ]

I think I'm having trouble with the use of the word "conditional".

Conditional forgivness, to me, means that if X repents, then Y can/will forgive. But that flies in the face of forgivness. Forgivness does not require that the party who did wrong repent. "I'll forgive him as soon as he says he's sorry." That's not forgivness. I am required to forgive even if the offending party doesn't think they have done anything wrong.

Now, reconciliation would require repentence, but forgivness does not require it.

That's true. But are we obligated to forgive others if they are unrepentant?

Even God is condemns the unrepentent.

People don't repent not because they can't they do it because they are too proud to admit they had made a mistake.

 

[bliz]

That's true. But are we obligated to forgive others if they are unrepentant?

Even God is condemns the unrepentent.

People don't repent not because they can't they do it because they are too proud to admit they had made a mistake.

Yes, we are obligated to forgive the unrepentant. We are not God - we have clearly been told not to judge, which is, in it's proper meaning, to condemn.

Remember the example Jesus gave - 70 X 7. Someone who continues to do the same thing wrong 490 times clearly has not repented. And we are told to forgive them.

I wish we had the option not to forgive in those circumstances, but I just don't see an escape clause in Scripture. I'm not saying this is easy, or that it makes human sense, but I think this is what we are required to do. God knows out hearts; He knows if we are working toward forgiving (I think forgivness is often a layer by layer process) or if we are hardening our hearts to those who have done them wrong. Jesus forgave those who were in the process of killing them, and not repentant in the least... I don't think I will ever get there, but I think I am obligated to work toward that goal.

 

[TSIBHOD]

Should we only forgive someone under certain conditions. Is it just if we chose not to forgive someone if they don't apologize? Is it ok to not forgive even if someone sincerely apologizes?

I don't think that forgiveness should be conditional, but a restoration of trust or closeness may depend on certain things.

 

[Pac Shady]

I think I'm having trouble with the use of the word "conditional".

Conditional forgivness, to me, means that if X repents, then Y can/will forgive. But that flies in the face of forgivness. Forgivness does not require that the party who did wrong repent. "I'll forgive him as soon as he says he's sorry." That's not forgivness. I am required to forgive even if the offending party doesn't think they have done anything wrong.

Now, reconciliation would require repentence, but forgivness does not require it.

If it flies in the face of forgiveness, then how is it that God forgives in this way?

What's good enough for God is good enough for me. I agree with Homewardbound, and I agree with God's view of forgiveness. In fact, according to God, forgiveness is by nature CONDITIONAL. LOVE on the other hand, is unconditional, but love is not the issue here.

'Shady

 

[Pac Shady]

I don't think that forgiveness should be conditional, but a restoration of trust or closeness may depend on certain things.

If your partner was repeatedly cheating on you, and not willing to repent, why would you forgive them? Would the forgiveness in this case not destroy the relationship, since it tells the other person to keep doing what they like, because no matter what they do you'll always forgive them? God doesn't do the same thing. And what is sin is sin is sin, if God conditionally orgives then according to "unconditional forgiveness" theory, He has committed a sin, and that is blasphemy to suggest God has committed sin.

'Shady

 

[bliz]

If it flies in the face of forgiveness, then how is it that God forgives in this way?

What's good enough for God is good enough for me. I agree with Homewardbound, and I agree with God's view of forgiveness. In fact, according to God, forgiveness is by nature CONDITIONAL. LOVE on the other hand, is unconditional, but love is not the issue here.

'Shady

God's forgivness of His children is unconditional.

In some ways using God as the example here is awkward becasue of the salvation issue. I do not have salvation to offer anyone. I am not wholey perfect and sinless in every way, unable to tolerate sin, save for the presence of the blood of Christ covering the sin. (God also exists without a body, but I dare say you are not attempting to emulate Him in that way...)

If I am to forgive, it must be unconditional, or it is not forgivness.

 

[king-priest]

Forgiveness is unconditional in that it is not brought up again and not harbored a grudge. It is not a matter of trust,nor an act of trust, but grace.Grace is not trust.

Grace is all that God can do for free based on the death(spiritual death) of His Son. We as christians are commanded to love(agape) one another, to forgive one another, based on grace.

Grace is not deserved nor earned.In fact, there may be someone who has done such evil and malicious acts toward you, and he does not deserve it,nor would he ever earn it(at least whereas your concerned).

But grace is seeing the need and giving it because your Father in heaven commanded it and by doing so , it glorifies Him.(which should be your motivation and objective and desire)
Forgive...
Not because it meets your standard.
Not because they feel guilty enough.
Not because you say it is ok to do it again.
Not because you think you are more righteous.("At least I don't......")
Not because you trust them.
People want to hold someone's fault to their own standard of atonement, which really is self-justification with their self- righteous thinking.
But the bible also points out ...
"Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it." Grace.

Did we as sinners deserve or earn forgiveness from God before we became to Christ?
No.

863 aphiemi,(af-ee'-ay-mee) from 575[away] and hiemi[to send; an intense. form of eimi,to go]; --to send forth,in various applications (as follow):-cry,forgive,forsake,lay aside,leave,let (alone,be,go,have),omit,put(send) away,remit,suffer,yield up.
Mt. 6:12,14,15, 9:6, 18:21,35
Mk. 2:7,10, 11:25,26
Lk. 5:21,24, 11:4, 17:3,4 23:24
1 Jn. 1:9

630 apoluo,(ap-ol-oo'-o);from 575[away] and 3089[luo;"loosen"];-- to free fully,i.e.(lit.) relieve, release, dismiss(reflex. depart), or (fig.)let die, pardon,or (spec.)divorce:-(let) depart, dismiss, divorce, forgive, let go, loose, put (send)away, release,set at liberty.
Lk. 6:37

5483 charizomai,(khar-id'-zom-ahee); mid. from 5485[graciousness(as gratifying), of manner or act(abstr. or concr.;lit.,fig. or spiritual; espec. the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life;] --to grant as a favor, i.e.gratuitously, in kindness, pardon or rescue:-deliver,(frankly)forgive, (freely)give, grant.
2 Cor. 2:7,10 12:13

Forgiveness is not about you.....it is about God.

 

[bliz]

If your partner was repeatedly cheating on you, and not willing to repent, why would you forgive them? Would the forgiveness in this case not destroy the relationship, since it tells the other person to keep doing what they like, because no matter what they do you'll always forgive them? God doesn't do the same thing. And what is sin is sin is sin, if God conditionally orgives then according to "unconditional forgiveness" theory, He has committed a sin, and that is blasphemy to suggest God has committed sin.

No, the cheating would destroy the relationship. I can forgive the cheating, but still choose to end the relationship. Forgivness does not equal restoration. Forgivness is a first step toward restoration, but more steps are involved.

Being forgiven does not automatically mean that we will do the same thing over again, and if one does repeat the same offense, it is not becassue they were forgiven, it is becasue they choose to sin.