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Should Christians support Jews in rebuilding of Third Temple?

Should Christians support Jewish control of Temple Mount and rebuilding of Temple?

  • Yes, I believe that every word in Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 must be fulfilled.

  • No, doing this might speed up the time of the coming of the anti-Messiah!

  • Yes, King Cyrus was led by the God of Abraham and he supported this cause.

  • No, I believe that we should all be vegetarians and never kill animals.

  • Yes, our nation will be blessed if we bless the Jewish people.

  • No, this could lead to a war and human life is of more value than any temple!


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usexpat97

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Since Isaiah was a temple priest, obviously there was a temple at the time he wrote it.

In any event, how about receiving the meaning of the Scripture? It talks about how Jews are being expelled from their own temple, from their own brethren, for standing up for their beliefs. It is a message to the true believers to take heart. Just because you are kicked out of the temple by false believers doesn't mean you are kicked out of God's Church. Indeed, it is they, the hypocrites, who will be shamed.
 
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Supreme

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Agreed. This is very true.
 
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Steve Petersen

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Ezekiel is not the only book that looks into the future and sees a Third Temple. This passage is obviously in the future because it has not happened yet:

Zechariah 14:

 
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DennisTate

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Yes usexpat97!

That is definitely the primary meaning in those verses....but when these verses are combined with Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48....I do have to ask myself the question if the time is coming when again Orthodox Jews who are determined to obey all that Moses passed down to them to perform....will be kicked out of the restored Temple Mount area by politicians determined to appease other groups.....especially one particularly successful politician who is a serious case of God complex????!!!

But again we are back to the question of where the Bride of Messiah should be on this question....should we want the real Messiah back here on earth saving lives and restoring deserts and altering the nature of animals.....or should we fear that guy with the God complex so much....that we fail to assist the Jewish community.....at least at the political level..... to complete their part of the job which is to build a literal Jerusalem Third Temple.....that yes....after 3.5 years from the time of some sort of covenant will probably get taken over for a while....perhaps another 3.5 years?????!!!!!!


But....then the LORD....comes to His Temple....literally as well as metaphorically and The LORD cleans out both His literal Temple as well as His Bride????!!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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There was no response, entitled, "No, The Temple is the Jews' business, and we should keep our noses out of it"; so I voted with the veggies.


BlandOatmeal....for us Christians to keep our nose out of Jewish business is a vastly better approach than average....but.....the Messianic Jewish movement has us Christians asking questions that we didn't ask previously so verses like this one jump at us:


Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua was clear that the Jewish methods of worship were different from the methods of worship by the Samaritans whose religion was a syncretism of some Jewish rituals with some pagan ones.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
 
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DennisTate

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Ezekiel is not the only book that looks into the future and sees a Third Temple. This passage is obviously in the future because it has not happened yet:

Zechariah 14:

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished. And half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley, and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal. Yea, ye shall flee as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day that the light shall not be clear nor dark.
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord — neither day nor night; but it shall come to pass that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and half of them toward the hinder sea; in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth; in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; and it shall be lifted up and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s Gate unto the place of the First Gate unto the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananeel unto the king’s wine presses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people who have fought against Jerusalem: their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem, and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together: gold and silver and apparel in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague on the horse, on the mule, on the camel and on the ass, and on all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass that every one who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem, shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up and come not, upon whom there is no rain, there shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen who come not up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses: “Holiness Unto The Lord.” And the pots in the Lord’S house shall be like the bowls before the altar;
21 yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts, and all those who sacrifice shall come and take of them and boil therein. And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.




Thank you immensely for this quotation Steve!

Yes, this is another one of the series of scriptures that point toward a future where every single promise made to the Jewish people has been fulfilled!

And if Egyptians.....who are Moslems....are expected to respect and to some degree send representatives to observe the Festival of Tabernacles....who are apparently not horribly persecuted as soon as they return to Egypt.....then obviously we Christian nations should be sending some representatives to observe some aspects of the Festival of Tabernacles as well.....once that time comes and this promise is fulfilled????!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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Actually, Lion of Judah....the statements of Rabbi Jesus to the Samaritan woman indicate that the Jews have the only religion that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua stated clearly is a form of worship of the Messiah!


John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
 
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LionofJudahDK

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That's the most ridiculous pseudo-reasoning I've read in a long time! It's akin to someone going off and murdering infants of non-believers, because "Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and http://www.biblestudytools.com/esv/psalms/137.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-9dashes them against the rock! " (Psalm 137).

Please note when Jesus said this, and in what situation He said it. You can't just pick Bible verses at random and use them to argue whatever the fiddlestick you want, without looking at the points, and the context!
 
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Touma

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There will never be a third temple built.

1) It would cause such an uprising against Israel.

2) Jesus is already the third, and final temple. He is the eternal temple. Why would Christians support the building of a 'third' temple for the Jews? I think ya'll read too much left behind and have a hard on for the blood bath that happens in those books.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Dennis, you can tell by my logo that I am not allowed to comment here on matters of theology. John 4:22, which I thoroughly believe, would be considered as heresy if anyone here said it without the scriptural reference; and indeed, I am unashamed to call myself a heretic for this reason.

When talking about the Third Temple, you are touching upon an issue that is COMPLETELY Jewish, and that impacts the Jewish people before it impacts anyone else. That is why I say it is their business, not ours. When the nations of the world (the goiim) DO take it upon themselves to decide what goes on in Yerushalaim (Jerusalem), as they do almost continually in the UN, they are acting out the very Zechariah 14 scenario alluded to above:

I was born in 1948, the same time that the modern State of Israel was coming into being. That was also the year the Cold War began, so I (and Israel) grew up in an environment wherein international politics was dominated by a high-stakes poker-like confrontation between the United States of America and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Everything that happened in the world in those days, including happenings in the Middle East, was viewed through a Cold War perspective; and the notion that Americans would one day stand shoulder-to-shoulder with China, Japan and all the great nations of the world against a nation so tiny that its name doesn't even fit inside the country on maps, seemed like utter fantasy; yet here we are today, 64 years later, with committees of the UN continually drafting resolutions against Israel, almost to the exclusion of all other business.

That is why I say that it is the Jews' business and nobody else's; and the Jews are right to take offense, when so-called Christians take up the torch of their cause in a way that they themselves do not want to do.

Christendom had its chance to rearrange things in Jerusalem, in 1099 during the First Crusade. That was a momentous time, when Pope Urban united the kings and nobility of Europe to set aside their eternal warring with one another, come to the aid of their Eastern Orthodox brethren against attack by the Turks, and free the Holy Land so that Christians of every kind (well, ALMOST every -- heretics like me were excluded then, as they are in CF theological discussions). Jews, of course, were slaughtered then in the onslaught, along with the Muslims that they had sided with; so Jews to this day do not look fondly at those times.

Nevertheless, that was the Christian day, the time when the presumed followers of Christ had it within their power to do whatever they wanted in Jerusalem. Concerning the Temple Mount, there was a mosque off to one side, in the area SOUTH of the former Temple; whereas on the site of the Temple itself, supposedly on the very Holy of Holies, stood the Dome of the Rock.

In early Christian times, this had been the site of a modest Christian church. Some time after the Muslims invaded Jerusalem as occupiers, they converted the church to a shrine in an effort to use it as a place of conversion for Christians. Worshipers were commanded to enter the shrine, then do a circuit of the Holy Place with their BACKS TO THE HOLY PLACE, while they read the Muslim scriptures inscribed on the outer wall. At no time, were they allowed to worship TOWARD the Holy Place; and this situation continues to exist to this day. As for the Muslims, they pray with their butt ends pointed towards the Dome of the Rock. This is not an act of reverence, but of disdain. THE DOME OF THE ROCK IS NOT HOLY TO THE MUSLIMS, AND NEVER HAS BEEN.

While the Christians controlled Jerusalem. they turned the Dome back into a church, but did not attach much significance to it; the focus of their worship in Jerusalem was elsewhere, at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. This situation also continues to this day, with the Garden Tomb added in later years as a place of pilgrimage by some Christians. The golden Dome, meanwhile, which is alluded to in the Israeli patriotic song, "Jerusalem the Golden" (Yerushalaim shel Zahav), reverted to Muslim control under Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb. When the Jews regained control of the place during the 1967 War, it was almost immediately returned to the Muslims.

As I said, the Christians had their chance to set things right on the Temple Mount during the Crusades, and they squandered it. In 1917, a much more Biblically enlightened group of Christians, the British, again took control of Jerusalem. They made the city part of a mandate to re-establish the Jewish homeland, but they left control of the Temple Mount in the hands of the Muslim Wakf, under the family of Amin al Husseini, pictured below:



(Al-Husseini is the one without the Nazi helmet). It was to this same family that the government of Israel returned the place after the 1967 War.

So much for the best intentions of the Christian nations, to "help" the Jews order their worship on their most holy place. NOTHING WILL CHANGE with any "new" batch of Christians who want to lend a hand. God has not commanded the Christians to worship at the Temple Mount; He commanded this to the Jews, and THEY must show their devotion to Him by setting things straight THEMSELVES.

Shalom shalom.
 
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DennisTate

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Wow!

Awesome post BlandOatmeal!

At the moment I have to run but hopefully soon I will be able to get into some specifics on how the printing up of church currencies could fit with film projects that could help Jews and Christians and Moslems to come up to a whole new level of cooperation and understanding of each other's differing role in latter day events.


http://www.christianforums.com/t7701455/
North American churches should each have their own currency!
 
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DennisTate

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Muslims who have real faith in the prophecies of the Qu'ran teach that the Jewish people were supposed to return to the Holy Land in the latter days:



http://www.christianforums.com/t7665300/
Qu'ran teaches that Jews must return to Israel in latter days.
 
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Illuminaughty

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Jerusalem doesn't belong to the Jews alone. It also belongs to Palestinian Christians and Muslims. Heck, even a few atheists and agnostics. Bulldozing the dome of the rock would ignite violence worldwide and everyone else would have to bear the consequences. Temples are nice but they aren't worth more than humans. We have every right to voice disapproval of any such plan.
 
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DennisTate

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Illuminaughty....I believe that you are correct that human life has astonishing value.....more than temples....but I have learned a saying from my Pentecostal wife and friends that I never understood until they taught me. "The anointing breaks the yokes/chains."


Isaiah 45 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)


Isaiah 45:1Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;..............

Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

One of the most serious forms of captivity, enslavement is debt slavery. President Lincoln did his very best to not only end literal slavery...but debt slavery as well. I strongly strongly suspect that the prophecy given by the man from Uganda, back on page 3 of this discussion, fits with the breaking out of God's people from debt slavery on an even larger scale than arranged through President Lincoln who saved American 4 BILLION DOLLARS in interest payments on the money spent to win the Civil War!


Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy

 
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DennisTate

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I could be wrong....but sometimes a greater level of guilt can lead to an even deeper level of repentance....I feel that we Canadians were seriously in error to oppose Americans in your War of Independence and perhaps a Canadian political leader might just figure out some way to fulfill some or even most of the role of a modern Cyrus??!!

There are 143,000 acres of farmland that have been taken back from the Bay of Fundy by the use of dikes. In my part of Nova Scotia the difference between low tide and high tide is as little as one meter. In parts of the Bay of Fundy the difference is 15 to 17 meters or more. The Bay of Fundy has a funneling effect on tidal water therefore that 143,000 acres of dike land along the Fundy is probably the most vulnerable to rising ocean levels.

The best way to combat rising ocean levels that I know of is to invest heavily in turning deserts green through desalination of ocean water and then irrigating desert land to produce crops. Israel has recently made some astonishing advances in desalination using solar energy. We are living in a time period when it is possible for humans to do something ethical by turning deserts green to produce food which would directly combat climate change in several ways....but perhaps most importantly ocean water would be diverted somewhere else other than on top of Florida or New Orleans or Manhattan Island or those 143,000 acres in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia along the Bay of Fundy!?!?




http://www.christianforums.com/t7653888/

An apology to all Americans from a Canadian, and a thank you!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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God had the Gentiles destroy the Jew's temple twice. Not sure why the Jews would want to risk building another one

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival.

How suitable and how kind, then, was the prophetic admonition of our LORD, and how clearly he into futurity when he said "Let not them that are in the countries enter into Jerusalem." Luke xxi. 21........................

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins ; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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...I feel that we Canadians were seriously in error to oppose Americans in your War of Independence...

Don't feel too bad about it, Dennis. During the American Revolution, the Colonies were about equally divided between Tories/Loyalists, Rebels/Patriots and people trying to be neutral. Even the Iroquois Indian nations were divided, with the Senecas, Cayugas, Onondagas and Mohawks supporting the British and the Oneidas and Tuscaroras supporting the Colonists. Americans remember General Benedict Arnold as a traitor, for having changed sides during the war; but hardly anyone realizes that American hero Ethan Allen also entertained a delegation from General Burgoyne at one time; and he would have gone over to the British if the latter had granted provincial status to Vermont. My ggreat grandmother was born in Canada, of American parents. Much of Ontario was settled by Loyalist Americans AND THEIR FAMILIES, even family members who had supported the Revolution, who shared land grants rewarded to their kinsmen for service to the Crown. During the War of Rebellion of Upper Canada, and even before then, many of these returned to the United States. During the War of 1812, some of these returning families even found themselves fighting their own kinsmen as a result. During the American Civil War/ War of Rebellion, many Canadians moved to the United States to help out the Union cause; and of course, some Canadians worked hand-in-hand with American abolishionists in running the Underground Railway.

During the Vietnam War, many Americans who had opposed the war found refuge in Canada. While many Americans look upon this as treachery by our allies as well as our own citizens, I personally am grateful that there is an English-speaking country so close to us, wherein Americans can find refuge when they find themselves on the "politically incorrect" side of public law and opinion. France and Germany have their Switzerland, and we have our Canada. Thank God for both places.

Shalom shalom
 
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DennisTate

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Wow!

I love how you look at history BlandOatmeal!!!!!

In his most recent interview with Sid Roth, Pastor David Herzog stated that he had been shown a vision of Israel being blamed when the American economy gets even worse and Jewish Americans would be persecuted in the USA and would have to flee to Canada....and then to Israel.

I guess this is part of the predicted Exodus from the north that will cause the Exodus from Egypt to seem small in comparison!!!!!!
 
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DennisTate

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LittleLambofJesus....I tried twice to get into the other thread that you gave here....and the link isn't quite working....Not sure why????

But....the topic you mentioned has artistic value.....that could be translated into economic and diplomatic value....in the hands of an inspired and wise group of Christians?!
 
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