Should Christians support Jews in rebuilding of Third Temple?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by DennisTate I do agree with you that the people of God are the metaphorical temple

The church (ie; the body of Christ) is not a "metaphorical" temple, but is literally the temple.

Some bible versions render it as "Sanctuary" instead of Temple.

There is another greek word used for temple and it is never used once in the book of Revelation

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos), which occurs 46 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance

Young) 2 Corinthians 6:16 and what agreement to the sanctuary of God with idols? for ye are a sanctuary of the living God,
according as God said--`I will dwell in them, and will walk among [them], and I will be their God, and they shall be My people,

Reve 21:22 And a sanctuary I did not see in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, is its sanctuary, and the Lamb,
3And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold!, the tabernacle/booth of God [is] with men, and He will tabernacle/booth with them,
And they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them [and be] their God

 

[DennisTate]

Some bible versions render it as "Sanctuary" instead of Temple.

There is another greek word used for temple and it is never used once in the book of Revelation

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G3485 matches the Greek ναός (naos), which occurs 46 times in 40 verses in the Greek concordance

Young) 2 Corinthians 6:16 and what agreement to the sanctuary of God with idols? for ye are a sanctuary of the living God,
according as God said--`I will dwell in them, and will walk among [them], and I will be their God, and they shall be My people,

Reve 21:22 And a sanctuary I did not see in it, for the Lord God, the Almighty, is its sanctuary, and the Lamb,
3And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold!, the tabernacle/booth of God [is] with men, and He will tabernacle/booth with them,
And they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them [and be] their God

Interesting scriptures on this topic!

In I Corinthians the people were rebuked for turning even their favourite pastors into somewhat of an idol?!



1Corinthians 1:12

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

[cow451]

How about: No, because I'm not Jewish and neither are you.

 

[DennisTate]

:444: The Beast After Federal, State and Local Taxes.

LOL!

 

[usexpat97]

Since we are helping Jews rebuild their temple, can we get their help rebuilding my church? We're growing, and I'm getting a little tired of having two services every Sunday.

 

[DennisTate]

Since we are helping Jews rebuild their temple, can we get their help rebuilding my church? We're growing, and I'm getting a little tired of having two services every Sunday.

Actually, I am 99% certain that you are onto something important with these comments usexpat97! Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua always had in mind a church where his followers genuinely loved each other in spite of such amazing differences in ethnic or racial background. Soon Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua will be inspiring us Christians to understand exactly how we are to back up the Jews as they fulfill their role......all the world will be amazed as Christians and Jews are led to the level of love and mutual respect that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua had planned for us since before the world was formed!


John 13:34

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by usexpat97
Since we are helping Jews rebuild their temple, can we get their help rebuilding my church? We're growing, and I'm getting a little tired of having two services every Sunday.

I am on my way!

Actually, I am 99% certain that you are onto something important with these comments usexpat97! Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua always had in mind a church where his followers genuinely loved each other in spite of such amazing differences in ethnic or racial background.
Soon Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua will be inspiring us Christians to understand exactly how we are to back up the Jews as they fulfill their role......all the world will be amazed as Christians and Jews are led to the level of love and mutual respect that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua had planned for us since before the world was formed!

John 13:34

Are you talking about Jesus?
Isn't that why both Jews and Christians have a Bible to help us better understand the Word of YAHWEH?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan I think we in America should strongly support Israel.

But I don't think as Christians we have any business promoting a third temple. The Temple sacrifices are a bold statement that the Messiah has not come according to Hebrews 10:4-11.

I believe that God has overruled in Israel to make that point clear for the last 2000 years.

Wow!

I thank you for expressing your opinion on this important topic Bob!

The Orthodox Jews have a tradition that when they rebuild their Jerusalem Temple, it will last for one thousand years or more! They also have a tradition that Gentiles will push them to rebuild their Temple?!

I have the impression that we Gentiles will actively desire for Jews to rebuild their Temple when the climate is so astonishingly unstable that we are desperate to do anything that will bring the G-d of Abraham closer to us and closer to our earth!

That is an interesting impression.

In Hebrews 7 we have the direct teaching that the law supporting the priesthood was abolished by Christ - and so goes the temple services.

In Hebrews 8 we have the direct teaching that the real temple and priesthood is now in heaven - with Christ as our High Priest.

In Heb 10:4-11 Paul says "He takes away the first in order to establish the second" with his "once for all time" sacrifice.


So while I do understand why non-Christian Jews want animal sacrifices and a restored temple - for them there never was a Messiah that came and set those things aside or changed those laws.

If gentiles who have not read the New Testament suddenly seek for the "God of the Jews" supposing like them that Christ is not the Messiah and the NT is not the Word of God -- then I think your conclusion may indeed be correct. It makes sense that they would join with that percent of Jews looking for a new Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

According to the Bible - in Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:4 - Love for the Jews does not involve joining with them to resume animal sacrifices as if Christ is not the Messiah - rather Love for Jews involves standing up for the truths of the Gospel and giving them the Gospel invitation to accept Christ's once-for-all sacrifice as our substitute.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DennisTate]

.....
Are you talking about Jesus?
Isn't that why both Jews and Christians have a Bible to help us better understand the Word of YAHWEH?

Yes, when I write Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua I am talking about Jesus!

Many of us Christians seem to fail to remember that Jesus was actually a Jewish Rabbi who was so well liked and respected by the majority of Jews that the leadership who had control of the temple were genuinely worried that Rabbi Jesus, (Yehoshua in Hebrew), would be taken and made into a king by the average Jews living in the Roman province of Judaea at that time!

I believe that we Christians due to our culture do not grasp all that was intended by Jesus in this admonition:

Matthew 23:2

Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.

 

[DennisTate]

Originally Posted by BobRyan I think we in America should strongly support Israel.

But I don't think as Christians we have any business promoting a third temple. The Temple sacrifices are a bold statement that the Messiah has not come according to Hebrews 10:4-11.

I believe that God has overruled in Israel to make that point clear for the last 2000 years.




That is an interesting impression.

In Hebrews 7 we have the direct teaching that the law supporting the priesthood was abolished by Christ - and so goes the temple services.

In Hebrews 8 we have the direct teaching that the real temple and priesthood is now in heaven - with Christ as our High Priest.

In Heb 10:4-11 Paul says "He takes away the first in order to establish the second" with his "once for all time" sacrifice.


So while I do understand why non-Christian Jews want animal sacrifices and a restored temple - for them there never was a Messiah that came and set those things aside or changed those laws.

If gentiles who have not read the New Testament suddenly seek for the "God of the Jews" supposing like them that Christ is not the Messiah and the NT is not the Word of God -- then I think your conclusion may indeed be correct. It makes sense that they would join with that percent of Jews looking for a new Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.

According to the Bible - in Acts 13, Acts 17:1-5, Acts 18:4 - Love for the Jews does not involve joining with them to resume animal sacrifices as if Christ is not the Messiah - rather Love for Jews involves standing up for the truths of the Gospel and giving them the Gospel invitation to accept Christ's once-for-all sacrifice as our substitute.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob you have made valid points that need to be taken into consideration but I don't believe what is stated in Hebrews in any ways overrules:


Luke 24:25

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

I take it from this statement by Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua that every single word in the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets must all be fulfilled....filled up to the full.....which in the case of Ezekiel chapters 40 to 48 means an actual Jerusalem Third Temple complex that will be accessible to Jewish officials capable of performing all the Mosaic rituals?!

Yes, timing is critical and both Jews and Christians must be guided by the Holy Spirit in regards to the time of the fulfillment of these words...but it sure does seem to me that we Christians, if we believe what Rabbi Jesus stated about all that the prophets have spoken being fulfilled....then we need to realize that the time is coming for Jews to have as much freedom of religion as we want for ourselves...which means that we want them to be free to build and use their Jerusalem Third Temple complex!

One of the first changes that we Christians will make is that we will pray differently when we pray for the peace of Jerusalem and for the positive prophecies for Jerusalem to be fulfilled exactly as God has promised!

 

[BobRyan]

I agree with the promises being fulfilled up to the full.

But Hebrews is correct to point out that "he takes away the first in order to establish the second" when it comes to animal sacrifices - because those sacrifices were never put in place just to give Jews warm fuzzy feeling - rather they all pointed to the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world" and that has happened. The types and shadows end when the antitype has come and the type fulfilled.

Thus Paul makes the case in Romans 9 regarding the mechanism for 100% fulfillment of the promises.

9 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,

2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,

4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ through Isaac your descendants will be named.”

8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

The Holy Land is now little more than a hotly contested patch of desert. The "promise" of Hebrews 11 is for something a lot more. It is about a Heavenly city -

Heb 11
37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
38 (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.


in Christ,

Bob

 

[DennisTate]

I agree with the promises being fulfilled up to the full.

But Hebrews is correct to point out that "he takes away the first in order to establish the second" when it comes to animal sacrifices - because those sacrifices were never put in place just to give Jews warm fuzzy feeling - rather they all pointed to the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world" and that has happened. The types and shadows end when the antitype has come and the type fulfilled.

Thus Paul makes the case in Romans 9 regarding the mechanism for 100% fulfillment of the promises.

9 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,

2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,

4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,

5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “ through Isaac your descendants will be named.”

8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

The Holy Land is now little more than a hotly contested patch of desert. The "promise" of Hebrews 11 is for something a lot more. It is about a Heavenly city -

Heb 11
37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
38 (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground. 39 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.


in Christ,

Bob

Bob, you certainly write in a logical and convincing manner.....I have been thinking about your arguments for a long time now and only a few days ago ran into what I think may answer some of your questions.

This is from a near death experience but the comment was so in line with the flavour of the entire Jewish Bible that I found this truly moving!

"We chose a family once: We espoused Israel and Judah as the wife of Jehovah. She and we would walk and work together to bring down the idol worship of Satan's nations who rejected their Creator.

"But our wife Israel chased after other gods, and played the harlot and "slept' with Satan. Jehovah (who includes me) had to obey his own laws, so we gave her a bill of divorcement. We had to chasten her until she would repent: otherwise we would be breaking our own rules! Since then she has not yet repented, and is still wandering like lost sheep.

"I am lonesome for my people to come home to me. I even came to Earth to win them back, but they said "Away with him! Crucify him!' I left them a promise that I still love them. After all I even died for them. I promised that I would restore my divorcee and would wash her filthy rags of whoredom white as snow. I would make her my new bride adorned in a pure white wedding gown with jewels. As a wedding present I would reestablish her nation on Earth to be a blessing once again (instead of the stumbling stone). I must be her king on David's throne! And soon!

"The Father and I have felt so neglected all these centuries without the love we sought to enjoy with our family. Can you now imagine how we hurt as I await my body and my Father waits to remarry a penitent wife as our new bride? I am letting you feel that sense of separation!"

(Dr. Richard Eby, near-death.com)

 

[DennisTate]

Many well read Christian scholars would caution us to be cautious of the source of the near death experience visions....but after digging into them a great deal I feel strongly that the vast majority of them are a genuine encounter with God or with an angel?!


http://www.christianforums.com/t7647330/

Former atheist Howard Storm asks about holocaust during his NDE?!

Do you believe that some NDE accounts fit with scripture?

Yes, I believe that some NDE accounts are genuine meetings with the Messiah or angels. 6 35.29%

Maybe but perhaps some NDE accounts are of a meeting with Satan?! 4 23.53%

No, the near death experience accounts are mostly false and misleading. 7 41.18%

I don't know enough about this subject yet to express an opinion?! 1 5.88%

Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 17. You have already voted on this poll

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by BobRyan I agree with the promises being fulfilled up to the full.

But Hebrews is correct to point out that "he takes away the first in order to establish the second" when it comes to animal sacrifices - because those sacrifices were never put in place just to give Jews warm fuzzy feeling - rather they all pointed to the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world" and that has happened.
The types and shadows end when the antitype has come and the type fulfilled.

How long do you think it would take the Jews to build a new Temple and Sanctuary?

Edit to add: I voted for this: No, this could lead to a war and human life is of more value than any temple!

Luke 19:43 Because days shall come upon thee, and thine enemies shall cast around thee a rampart and compass thee round, and press thee on every side,

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins ; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.

 

[Illuminaughty]

human life is of more value than any temple!

^ This. Physical building are nice but the greatest temple is the human body. Not worth sacrificing people for a building of stone.

 

[DennisTate]

^ This. Physical building are nice but the greatest temple is the human body. Not worth sacrificing people for a building of stone.

On the other hand, if indeed there are rituals that the Jewish Sanhedrin and priests could do that would stabilize the climate in any nation that will send representatives to the Festival of Tabernacles....then we could be talking here about saving MILLIONS of lives??????


Zechariah 14 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)


Zechariah 14:17

And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[DennisTate]

How long do you think it would take the Jews to build a new Temple and Sanctuary?

Edit to add: I voted for this: No, this could lead to a war and human life is of more value than any temple!

Luke 19:43 Because days shall come upon thee, and thine enemies shall cast around thee a rampart and compass thee round, and press thee on every side,

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ; and it is deserving of the very particular attention of the reader, that this was the anniversary of that memorable period in which the Jews crucified their Messiah !

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins ; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.

I suspect that they could have the temple purified and ready for sacrifices quite rapidly but the full construction of the Temple Mount Complex as described by Ezekiel may take decades to construct....unless they have miraculous assistance!!!!????


I just read a seriously cool translation of an important verse from an email from Dr. Michael Evans.

In the Hebrew language, when Genesis 12:3 says God will curse those who curse the seed of Abraham, it literally says, “Those who speak lightly against you, I will visit with heavy blows.”

(Dr. Michael Evans, email, October 11, 2012).


Fw: When I prayed with Mother Theresa in Rome she said...
Yahoo! Groups

 

[LionofJudahDK]

An option is missing:

"No, we should not support people in idolatry".
Any kind of worship that does not have Jesus Christ as its center and star around which it revolves, is idolatry. Even Judaism.

 

[DennisTate]

An option is missing:

"No, we should not support people in idolatry".
Any kind of worship that does not have Jesus Christ as its center and star around which it revolves, is idolatry. Even Judaism.

LionofJudah.....Zechariah chapter 14......over the next two or three centuries what percentage of this chapter do you feel will be fulfilled literally as well as metaphorically??????

Zechariah 14 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)


I personally feel that one hundred percent of this chapter will be fulfilled over the coming two or three centuries......including China allowing some of their Messianic Jews, and Noahides and Orthodox Jews and Hebraic Roots Christians to visit Jerusalem........for the Festival of Tabernacles.......and then you know what happens......CHINA RECEIVES RAIN IN DUE SEASON!!!!!!

 

[DennisTate]

Shabbath Shaluem,

In response to Eporu Ronald’s study of the Jerusalem Temple Rebuilding Prophecy:

1. There will be no Cyrus II to setup any church in Jerusalem; no prophecy supports this theory. The verse John 2:18 is not referring to Cyrus but to the body of Yahshuo (aka Jesus Christ) being raised in three days. That verse has been fulfilled by his resurrection from the dead. The days mentioned here is not referring to 3,000 years; because the people in this discussion are men not God. Although a thousand years is like a day to God; nevertheless, when referring to days and years, God knows that men understand a day is a day and a year is a year. If the temple is rebuild then the church will returned to following the rest of God’s laws; and not picking some of them to obey like at buffet line. However, the Son of God and not any so-called Cyrus II will lead the rebuilding of temple upon his return as King over the earth. No Holy Scriptures supports any Cyrus II. The church will not unify or lead anyone in Jerusalem; however, the twelve tribes of Israel will lead all the peoples of the world in serving and worshipping God. At that time, the sons of Israel will reveal to the church that they all have been a victim of the following prophecy:

........Shabbath Shaluem.[/FONT][/COLOR]

But how could Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua fulfill the Cyrus prophecies because it is said of Cyrus that he did not really know God?????

For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: (Isaiah 45:4.5)