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Should an ex-Christian be able to explain why?

Not me

Righteousness is right and not me.
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They’re not identical, but you were asking for a synonym so I did my best. Do you still not understand what I mean by “property?”

I believe you mean the same thing I mean when I say “a quality” but I’m doing the best I can to follow, so continue and we’ll see.

Much love in Christ, Not me
 
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gaara4158

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I believe you mean the same thing I mean when I say “a quality” but I’m doing the best I can to follow, so continue and we’ll see.

Much love in Christ, Not me
It’s your move. I denied that truth exists.
 
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gaara4158

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That’s your call, but it must be hard to balance your checkbook.

Much love in Christ, Not me
Not really, it’s just hard to play word games that end up with proof of God’s existence when I use language so precisely.
 
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Not me

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Not really, it’s just hard to play word games that end up with proof of God’s existence when I use language so precisely.

So would you dismiss any proof that God exists?

Question; if God does exist, would you want to know Him?

(Be careful; “pride comes before a fall”)

Much love in Christ, Not me
 
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cloudyday2

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I think that if there is a significant reason they should be able to clearly define that reason, but the problem is knowing if it is the actual explanation or an acquired explanation. So for example if you were hungry and you ate two cookies and your gym instructor saw this and asked you why you ate two cookies you might acquire the explanation that you needed the extra calories because of your workout. Really you were just hungry and wanted another cookie but the explanation you acquired, while true, is not why you ate the extra cookie. The specific thought about calories didn't occur until after you were asked.

Depending on what they deconvert into there may be a read-in from what they are moving into, so that you get an explanation more of why they moved in than out. Like lets say you leave one church for another because you really want a free gym. When you are asked you give spiritual reasons for why the new church was better, and list reasons that never really bothered you before about the old church. When you made the choice to go to the new church you had no idea it would be spiritually better, but that gets retroactively applied in the explanation, even though the real explanation is the free gym.

This also happens emotionally. If the church hurt you, or God hurt you, or failed to meet ones personal expectations of trust then one might leave emotionally, then after studying counter apologists one can retroactively acquire or muddle the true explanation. In fact some of the most vitriolic counter apologists are those that deconvert.

It's really tricky knowing whether you are being given the actual explanation or the acquired one.
Yeah, that was the case with me, but I'm not certain that it matters. Maybe it does matter. IDK

The original issues that caused me to lose faith:
- I wanted some help or guidance from God in either being happy in my current circumstances or finding something else to do with my life, and God seemed to be totally unhelpful.
- I had an experience/hallucination that made me start feeling that reality isn't what it seems, and yet I had no idea what reality actually was. That made me depressed and confused.
- Christian theology seems highly macabre. As I brooded and brooded, I began to wonder if God might actually be an evil pretender because all this talk of drinking blood and eating flesh seemed suggestive of that. Eventually I started to suspect that this was a test to see if I had the perceptiveness to see that God was actually evil and Satan was actually good and follow the true good instead of the phony good. But I never had that courage. I only became confused.

At first I wanted to find a different denomination of Christianity that was less into superstitious nonsense. I thought the Quakers might be a possibility or maybe some sort of non-denominational church. Then I learned about psychosis and began to realize that I imagined all the evidence that I was trying to comprehend and respond to.

Later I read as much as I could to reinforce my disbelief.
 
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gaara4158

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So would you dismiss any proof that God exists?

Question; if God does exist, would you want to know Him?

(Be careful; “pride comes before a fall”)

Much love in Christ, Not me
No, I wouldn’t dismiss it, I would want to know about it. I keep asking you for it but you keep heading down rabbit holes instead of providing it.
 
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Not me

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No, I wouldn’t dismiss it, I would want to know about it. I keep asking you for it but you keep heading down rabbit holes instead of providing it.

I can instruct you how you can “know” God exists. just like I can instruct you to “know” that one and one is two. But it will require you to “do” something. Are you willing to find out if God exists?

Just so you know where I’m going, it will be a repeat of what I wrote on this thread to another individual.

First question; does righteousness exist?

On second thought, it might not be possible with you for you don’t believe ”truth” exists. We would first have to get you to see that truth “in itself” does exist. Are you open to that reality?

Much love in Christ, Not me
 
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bhsmte

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I can instruct you how you can “know” God exists. just like I can instruct you to “know” that one and one is two. But it will require you to “do” something. Are you willing to find out if God exists?

Just so you know where I’m going, it will be a repeat of what I wrote on this thread to another individual.

First question; does righteousness exist?

On second thought, it might not be possible with you for you don’t believe ”truth” exists. We would first have to get you to see that truth “in itself” does exist. Are you open to that reality?

Much love in Christ, Not me

Stop evading and demonstrate what you claim.
 
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cloudyday2

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In regards to myself, I can clearly explained the process of going from Christian, to not being able to reconcile the theology any longer.

I actually dove into an investigation into the New Testament (motivated to understand it's meaning and it's historicity) and that investigation, caused me to acquire knowledge of the same I did not posses before and it also triggered me to take a deeper look at my belief. At the end of the day, I could no longer reconcile the theology in my own mind, without basically lying to myself, which I don't do well.
Just curious of the specifics in the theology that didn't reconcile.
 
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gaara4158

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I can instruct you how you can “know” God exists. just like I can instruct you to “know” that one and one is two. But it will require you to “do” something. Are you willing to find out if God exists?

Just so you know where I’m going, it will be a repeat of what I wrote on this thread to another individual.

First question; does righteousness exist?

On second thought, it might not be possible with you for you don’t believe ”truth” exists. We would first have to get you to see that truth “in itself” does exist. Are you open to that reality?

Much love in Christ, Not me
Are you a robot? We’ve already been over this. The epistemology you propose is identical to self-delusion. I’ve already explained that you how truth is not something that exists in itself.
 
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bhsmte

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Just curious of the specifics in the theology that didn't reconcile.

Many things, but a quick synopsis of issues I didn't find credible, from how Christians describe their God, as a God who loves all his creation:

If you don't believe in Christianity, you are basically doomed. The Christian who sins can repent and be forgiven, even if they live a life full of sin. The Hindu or non believer who lives a life of caring for others, has no chance, because they don't believe. I don't see any caring God setting up a system, where 2/3 of the worlds population, are left out.

The NT, from a historicity standpoint, leads to a lot of questions of it's credibility and smells like man made stories. I can't reconcile a virgin birth, miracles and someone dying to forgive everyone's sins, yet 2/3 are still doomed. You really have to perform psychological gymnastics, to reconcile a caring God with all of this.

I find the basic Christian theology, to actually be somewhat morally bankrupt and if you disagree with them, you are either blind, and have no hope for eternal life, etc. etc...

Some Christians actually have come to realize, there is a moral issue with what I mention and some take a more liberal view of Christianity, to be able to look themselves in the mirror. This doesn't take away from what is written in the scripture they rely on, which is pretty clear in dooming those who don't believe the story.
 
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Sanoy

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1 I wanted some help or guidance from God in either being happy in my current circumstances or finding something else to do with my life, and God seemed to be totally unhelpful.
2 I had an experience/hallucination that made me start feeling that reality isn't what it seems, and yet I had no idea what reality actually was. That made me depressed and confused.
3 Christian theology seems highly macabre. As I brooded and brooded, I began to wonder if God might actually be an evil pretender because all this talk of drinking blood and eating flesh seemed suggestive of that. Eventually I started to suspect that this was a test to see if I had the perceptiveness to see that God was actually evil and Satan was actually good and follow the true good instead of the phony good. But I never had that courage. I only became confused.

At first I wanted to find a different denomination of Christianity that was less into superstitious nonsense. I thought the Quakers might be a possibility or maybe some sort of non-denominational church. Then I learned about psychosis and began to realize that I imagined all the evidence that I was trying to comprehend and respond to.
I'd like to talk about these 3 points you made briefly if we could? ( I numbered them in your post). These are not rebuttals, I am just giving you my experience and what I have learned as a Christian.

1. This is my life, everyday...seeking guidance and not receiving it even though I pray everyday. But then I have also been prayed over and healed instantly. And I have received things that took 3 years of prayer. Daniel prayed, and had the messenger of his prayer withheld by a fallen angel for 21 days. Christianity is a war between two kingdoms. The same angels that came against Daniels prayer are the rulers of this world. Part of Christs mission is to take these kingdoms back, which is something that is progressive until He returns. But I also think that we are meant to be adults, we will judge angels, and I so I think God, like a good parent, wants us to grow in maturity and self sufficiency in regards to decisions.

2. I am the same way only that I believe very strongly that reality is not what it seems. "Hallucination" is not an explanation, it is a statement. An explanation explains why something happened, "hallucination" doesn't explain why it happened, it is a statement that it didn't happen. If God created you, and a spiritual world exists that you should be informed of then it stands to reason that God would create in you a way to comprehend that spiritual world. Our consciousness is oriented toward physical comprehension, and so to comprehend a spiritual phenomenon it must inject itself into our consciousness in a physical way. For example lets say a spirit is in front of you. Your eyes are incapable of seeing a ghost, however if it is important for you to be aware that there is a ghost in front of you then you will see a ghost in your vision inside your consciousness. We do not see with the tip of our eyes, we see from inside our conscious. So I would not discount your experiences unless they have an explanation, which "hallucination" is not. Additionally you should believe a personal experience unless you have a sufficient defeater for that experience. Otherwise one can suffer an infinite regress of doubt.

3. Communion is a remembrance of Christ sacrifice. Protestants do not take the wine and bread to literally be Christs body and blood. When Christ said take my body and blood He is not asking people to eat Him, He is asking people to take the sacrifice He is making for our sins. When we repent, our sins are transmitted to Christ who receives them. To become a Christian is to repent, and transmit those sins to Christ who received our guilt. Communion is a meal of fellowship, as it was in the upper room, where we remember Christs sacrifice for us through the symbols of his sacrifice for us by ourselves owning to the lamb who was slain for us.

A Catholic believes differently about the communion and I can't speak for them. So if there is one available please give your view and I ask Christians not to debate them here.
 
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How do I know that is the truth? Demonstrate please.

The same way you know one and one is two? You will say that is a nonsense answer. But it's not, for when you discover "how" you "know" one and one is two. The answer to your question is self evident.

In Christ, Not me
 
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Are you a robot? We’ve already been over this. The epistemology you propose is identical to self-delusion. I’ve already explained that you how truth is not something that exists in itself.

Since, as you say truth does not exist. I was wondering just how you balance your checkbook. You told me it was easy. So if you would, please tell me how you do so, not using truth.

in Christ, Not me
 
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