SHEEPEOPLE

[bhsmte]

The evidence says "Everyone dies." The two camps simply have different outlooks: Christians have it on good authority that if you choose that path, life doesn't end at death. Atheists what, accept death on the word of others who died before them? You LIKE the idea of just laying down and dying? Where's your fighting spirit of adventure?

I don't think people who die have much of an opinion on what happens after death, do you?

Why would I need to think I had eternal life to have great meaning to the life I have on earth? In fact, knowing life is not eternal, gives this life even more meaning to me.

 

[bhsmte]

No, it was given to me...for FREE.
That is logic from the wrong playbook...OF COURSE you can't follow that logic and just jump on board, you may as well be jumping overboard!

You are applying the wrong logic to the wrong issue. If you sincerely want to know about life after physical death...quit referring to experts in everything that dies.

So, throw away that rule book on how to be dead when you die! What has life to do with death? Do you really expect us to answer your questions with meaningless stuff that doesn't apply?

Wrong logic???

You mean I disagree with you, so I am using the wrong logic?

You haven't demonstrated your logic is accurate and in fact, you have done nothing to support your beliefs beyond your own personal desire to believe what you do. Nothing wrong with believing on faith, but to think your beliefs should apply to others, is a bit much.

 

[bhsmte]

Intellect has no integrity.

Wisdom, on the other hand does...and choosing even the possibility of life over certain death...is just for the fools and the wise.

How about the wisdom of those who believe in other Gods and other religions?

 

[Michael]

It's not an insult if it is accurate.

It's an insult in your case, but that's par for the course in your case too.

Where did I say that?

Man I'm tired of going back through this thread simply to quote you. Your denial routine get's old after awhile.

 

[Michael]

How about the wisdom of those who believe in other Gods and other religions?

What about monotheism is actually hard to understand? I fail to see the need to intentionally confuse the concept of multiple religions with the concept of multiple 'gods', but apparently that a common misconception/false belief among atheists.

 

[ScottA]

I'm rather annoyed that when I die I will end but that's all we have reason to believe is the case.

That [sorry to have to say] is a ghetto mentality. There are other choices...with hope, substantiated by a complete linage of historic events. Why do you stay on a dead end path, listening to naysayers and their limited close-circuit info?

Listen, obviously there are at least two sides to this whole God vs. nature thing...but if you never look at the big picture and realize that God oversees nature, then you are just living in your own little world. What do you expect? You may as well stay indoors.

 

[Davian]

How about if you are lost?

If your actions here are the result of being "not lost", then I'll stick with what I have. At least I don't have trouble of seeing things that others don't.

My above quote is one definition of insanity. Your approach seems to line up with it. Just sayin'

By that definition everyone should stop watching television. No, I take a more scientific approach, that all conclusions are tentative, that there is always a small - small - possibility that a religionist might have something that will knock my socks off. In your case, I would be surprised if you were holding back anything at this point.

Make believe is a funny thing. We innocently tell our innocent children stories to soften and explain something real. God does the same,

Indeed. Religion, as a comfort blanket, is a common meme that has been conveyed to me. Just be sure not to poke holes in it, or pull at loose threads.

but in this case...you don't even know you are in the story. I guess that proves he has a sense of humor.

I'm serious. You said that "We are to seek first the kingdom, etc", and I want you to know how that sounds. Answer the question: Do you send letters to Santa?

 

[dlamberth]

Intellect has no integrity.

I think it's what's behind the intellect and from where it comes.

.

 

[Davian]

Are they usable?

The utility of a belief does not ensure that it accurately reflects reality. I asked, how would you test your beliefs?

Well, it's been my life experiences, and after all of these years it's been pretty much coded into my reality. What I'm relating to are my Shaman and Mystic experiences. They are a bit different, I know. But they have demonstrated to me the multiple ways in which ones inner experiences can affect ones reality.
.

You mean, perception of reality.

 

[Davian]

How about the wisdom of those who believe in other Gods and other religions?

It's only wisdom if it points to his particular deity.

 

[Davian]

It's an insult in your case, but that's par for the course in your case too.



Man I'm tired of going back through this thread simply to quote you. Your denial routine get's old after awhile.

As is your inability to substantiate your assertions.

 

[Davian]

What about monotheism is actually hard to understand? I fail to see the need to intentionally confuse the concept of multiple religions with the concept of multiple 'gods', but apparently that a common misconception/false belief among atheists.

I asked this of a religionist in another thread, on the subject of Islamic extremists, and he said "They believe in the opposite of the God I believe in."

Opposite is not the same.

 

[ScottA]

As if one can choose reality.

You have obviously chosen yours.

Of course not. Why would I not want for there to be more to human existence that this brief biological stint?

Why then, do you refuse to leave the comfort of the natural world to explore what millions and millions of people say is true? No fair sighting facts from the natural world. Again, a choice...only substantiated by your own prejudices (beliefs).

While there are evangelical Christians such as Geneticist Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project, that accept evolutionary theory, I do not see why you make this a religious matter.

It's not a religious matter, not to me. It's a matter of reality. Not limited reality. If I wanted to limit my comments to natural reality, I would pat him on the back and say "Good job." But, him, as a religious man deserves not to be patronize and left out of the greater truth. As do you.

Likewise, it is one thing to departmentalize areas of study. It is entirely different to pretend that the others don't exist, or that they mix, when really the don't. But based on the fact that he does mix the two, is evidence that he would "like" to believe in God, but doesn't really "know" him (his evidence is all natural, and nothing spiritual). Just being honest.

 

[dlamberth]

The utility of a belief does not ensure that it accurately reflects reality. I asked, how would you test your beliefs?

I answered you. I see if my beliefs are usable. That's how I test my beliefs. I'm not looking for accurate reality, there is no such thing. I'm looking at living life.

You mean, perception of reality.

Sure, what ever.


.

 

[Davian]

That [sorry to have to say] is a ghetto mentality.

Another veiled insult.

There are other choices

As if we can put reality to a vote.

...with hope, substantiated by a complete linage of historic events. Why do you stay on a dead end path, listening to naysayers and their limited close-circuit info?

As opposed to the supposedly infallible preachers of religion?

Listen, obviously there are at least two sides to this whole God vs. nature thing...but if you never look at the big picture

Your "picture"?

and realize that God

God who?

oversees nature,

Allegedly.

then you are just living in your own little world.

And not your little world.

What do you expect? You may as well stay indoors.

Another dichotomy. Your religious opinion, or nihilism. Amirite?

 

[ScottA]

Unless of course, one find the Presence of God in life. I do not believe that the search for other wordly rewards over rides the reality of God in this world.

.

Well, that is a choice...not Christian or biblical...but it's a choice.

 

[Davian]

...
Christians have it on good authority ...

What is this "good authority" that you allude to? Will this involve circular reasoning?

 

[Davian]

You have obviously chosen yours.

Obviously, not.

Why then, do you refuse

"Refuse" implies intent. Belief is not a conscious choice. I, for one, cannot simply flip a 'switch' in my head and decide that "Today, I shall believe in gods".

to leave the comfort of the natural world

Comfort? What comfort? A brief biological stint, usually punctuated by a bunch of pain at each end. What are you talking about?

to explore what millions and millions of people say is true?

You already abdicated on this one. Appeals to popularity are fallacious.

No fair sighting facts from the natural world.

If you brought anything else, now is the time to put it on the table.

Again, a choice

What is this "choice" you keep referring to?

...only substantiated by your own prejudices (beliefs).

Beliefs are not a choice, but it's nice that you could find a word that you could use in the pejorative.

It's not a religious matter, not to me. It's a matter of reality. Not limited reality. If I wanted to limit my comments to natural reality, I would pat him on the back and say "Good job." But, him, as a religious man deserves not to be patronize and left out of the greater truth. As do you.

I do not accept your religious opinion as truth.

Likewise, it is one thing to departmentalize areas of study.

[pedant]
You mean, compartmentalize.

Compartmentalization is an unconscious psychological defense mechanism used to avoid cognitive dissonance, or the mental discomfort and anxiety caused by a person's having conflicting values, cognitions, emotions, beliefs, etc. within themselves.

Compartmentalization allows these conflicting ideas to co-exist by inhibiting direct or explicit acknowledgement and interaction between separate compartmentalized self states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_(psychology)
[/pedant]

It is entirely different to pretend that the others don't exist, or that they mix, when really the don't. But based on the fact that he does mix the two, is evidence that he would "like" to believe in God, but doesn't really "know" him (his evidence is all natural, and nothing spiritual). Just being honest.

If he has an account on this site, you are in violation of the site rules. If you care.

 

[Davian]

I answered you. I see if my beliefs are usable. That's how I test my beliefs. I'm not looking for accurate reality, there is no such thing. I'm looking at living life.

Sure, what ever.

Carry on then.

 

[ScottA]

I don't think people who die have much of an opinion on what happens after death, do you?

Why would I need to think I had eternal life to have great meaning to the life I have on earth? In fact, knowing life is not eternal, gives this life even more meaning to me.

Yeah, sure, like going through life tuned into a smart phone. If you are only looking at the natural world, you are missing what's going on over your head.