SHEEPEOPLE

[bhsmte]

Just looking at my own self, I've had beliefs that have impacted my reality, but is wasn't something I "NEEDED" to believe. I just believed it. And my reality changed.

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How do you determine your beliefs?

 

[dlamberth]

Do you think that a teenager's belief that they are indestructible would carry them safely across a busy highway at night with their eyes closed?

Of course not. Where do you get the connection?

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[dlamberth]

How do you determine your beliefs?

Today, more from inner personal experience than anything else. When I was younger, from what I was told...mostly by the TV.

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[dlamberth]

You mean, your perception of reality.

I guess that's true. I feel there can be a direct connection with ones reality when we look at ones changing consciousness and awakening process.

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[Davian]

Of course not. Where do you get the connection?

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It was just an example of how beliefs to not affect reality.

I guess that's true. I feel there can be a direct connection with ones reality when we look at ones changing consciousness and awakening process.

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Indeed, the feeling that we accurately perceive reality is compelling, if not necessarily true.

Curved lines

• Davian
• Jul 10, 2015

 

[dlamberth]

It was just an example of how beliefs to not affect reality.

But it was a very limited example put into a very small box that went to the extreme of craziness.

Indeed, the feeling that we accurately perceive reality is compelling, if not necessarily true.

There's also ones "experiences" that awaken one to a shift in reality. That's a different way of knowing than "perceiving" something.

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[Davian]

But it was a very limited example put into a very small box that went to the extreme of craziness.

How would you test your beliefs?

There's also ones "experiences" that awaken one to a shift in reality. That's a different way of knowing than "perceiving" something.

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You are free to believe that.

 

[dlamberth]

How would you test your beliefs?

Are they usable?

You are free to believe that.

Well, it's been my life experiences, and after all of these years it's been pretty much coded into my reality. What I'm relating to are my Shaman and Mystic experiences. They are a bit different, I know. But they have demonstrated to me the multiple ways in which ones inner experiences can affect ones reality.

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[ScottA]

You may not be selling anything, but it appears you have bought something.

No, it was given to me...for FREE.

Even when some make a claim that seems comforting, I can't jump on board with it if I can't reconcile the claim with the realities of the universe we live in, not matter how nice the claim may be. That would be fooling myself and I don't do that all too well.

That is logic from the wrong playbook...OF COURSE you can't follow that logic and just jump on board, you may as well be jumping overboard!

You are applying the wrong logic to the wrong issue. If you sincerely want to know about life after physical death...quit referring to experts in everything that dies.

So, throw away that rule book on how to be dead when you die! What has life to do with death? Do you really expect us to answer your questions with meaningless stuff that doesn't apply?

 

[ScottA]

Abdication accepted. Michael never gets anywhere with that fallacy either, but he pulls it out often enough.

I am not making truth claims.

Define what you mean by "reality". In the common vernacular, there is only one. Axioms, and all that.

What is this "playbook" that you allude to?

My rules? What are, exactly, my rules?

Word salad.

Why, thanks.

Take it? I can't even make sense of it. My reality? Your playbook? What are you talking about?

I just read back to you what you have been demanding of me/us...so, I guess that means you don't know what you are talking about. Indeed, you have been coming back with vernacular from the wrong universe. Word salad, indeed.

Maybe you would like to quit doing the same thing expecting a different result.

 

[ScottA]

I am not asserting my opinion as truth.

That's probably a good decision.

 

[Davian]

No, it was given to me...for FREE.
...

It looks like it would come at the cost of my intellectual integrity.

 

[ScottA]

I was under the impression that ID worked against the biblical-type/YEC gods. After all, why would an allegedly all-powerful-all-knowing deity have to throw a universe together, then fiddle with the knobs to get it right, when it could, hypothetically, have us living on the surface of the Sun?

ID is in favour of a 13-plus-billion-year-old cosmos, and all that that entails.

You may know more than I about ID theory. I do, on the other hand, know that intelligence was involved in the creation of the universe. But to answer your question...it would only appear to be a mystery, if you assumed he meant to create something natural. That's a mistake. That was not his intention.

Belief is not a conscious choice. I, for one, cannot simply flip a 'switch' in my head and say, "today, I shall believe in gods".

Think of it this way: There is a fork in the road of life. One fork has a sign that claims "We test everything - death ahead." The other fork has a sign that claims "Life ahead - believe it or not." So choose (maybe ask those kids what they would do if they came to such a fork in the road).

Beliefs do not affect reality.

That's for sure! Knowing...is the only reality.

 

[Davian]

I just read back to you what you have been demanding of me/us

Who is this "us" that you refer to? Are there multiple individuals using your account?

...so, I guess that means you don't know what you are talking about.

I don't claim to know about gods. I would describe my theological position as ignostic.

"Ignosticism is the view that the question of whether or not God exists is inherently meaningless until ultimately defined. And if defined, is it falsifiable? It takes the firm stand in saying that; I refuse to take a position until ‘god’ is properly and positively defined. The reason for this ignosticism position, is because in some religious debates the topic and definition god is intentionally left vague because if you define the essence of this divine religious deity then it is possible to prove falsifiability or nonexistence. And when not empirically defined, this is were ignosticism falls back into it original state; that since God cannot be defined then we cannot even discuss the issue when the descriptive definition of a celestial being by the believer is not given."

https://bittersweetend.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/the-ignosticism-position/

Indeed, you have been coming back with vernacular from the wrong universe.

I find it productive to use the vernacular for the universe that I am in, thanks. Where are you from?

Word salad, indeed.

Get thee to a dictionary.

Maybe you would like to quit doing the same thing expecting a different result.

I have been here for years, and have been getting the same result, but the elaborate rationales presented by each religionist for why their particular deity is indistinguishable from nothing usually takes enough twists and turns to make it interesting.

 

[Davian]

That's probably a good decision.

Indeed. History is littered with opinions that were at one time declared truths.

 

[ScottA]

When it comes to beliefs, I don't go choosing them based on claims of reward, I will conclude something is likely true, if I can reconcile that truth with reality and that means with evidence.

The evidence says "Everyone dies." The two camps simply have different outlooks: Christians have it on good authority that if you choose that path, life doesn't end at death. Atheists what, accept death on the word of others who died before them? You LIKE the idea of just laying down and dying? Where's your fighting spirit of adventure?

 

[Davian]

...
Christians have it on good authority ...

What is this "good authority" that you allude to? Will this involve circular reasoning?

 

[Larniavc]

The evidence says "Everyone dies." The two camps simply have different outlooks: Christians have it on good authority that if you choose that path, life doesn't end at death. Atheists what, accept death on the word of others who died before them? You LIKE the idea of just laying down and dying? Where's your fighting spirit of adventure?

The thing here is the concept of 'good authority'.

You have an oral tradition written down by bronze age man. If one does not buy into the claims of the authors of the text it does not count as 'good authority'.

I'm rather annoyed that when I die I will end but that's all we have reason to believe is the case.

 

[ScottA]

Do you have anything other than speculation?

That would be where the evidence leads me.

You are selling your religion, as you said you were "commanded" to do.

I do not see reality offering me a choice.

You got one hand tied behind your back...and reality, didn't do that...you did. There are many choices, some hopeful, some realistic. "Here lies Davian. He lived and died realistically."

No charge.

 

[Davian]

You may know more than I about ID theory.<snip pointless assertions>

Not really a "theory", speaking scientifically.

Think of it this way: There is a fork in the road of life. One fork has a sign that claims "We test everything - death ahead." The other fork has a sign that claims "Life ahead - believe it or not." So choose (maybe ask those kids what they would do if they came to such a fork in the road).

They agree with me - we're not buying those ancient lifejackets of yours.

That's for sure! Knowing...is the only reality.

I do not accept your religious opinion as "reality".