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... shall not perish but have life for an aeon ...

Der Alte

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^ It seems to me that their universalist interpretation is based on their analysis of Bible's use of the words "olam" and "aeon"

Is that why the universalist author referred to Hesychius (c. 400-600 AD), John of Damascus (c. 750 AD) Phavorinus 16th century, unnamed "theologians," seven unidentified "Greek writers," both of which is a logical fallacy, appeal to authority, over 6 centuries and Plato [428 BC – 347 BC] in that order. That is not "analysis of Bible's use of the words 'olam' and 'aeon'"' He claimed that Plato "make use of aiõn, in common with other words; and no one of them ever employs it in the sense of eternity." But note I quoted from Plato where he said that aion/aionios meant, “eternal (aionios, before aidios),””eternity permanent in unity,””imitating eternity (aiona),””exists for all eternity,””Aion is what is properly eternal,””a timeless, immeasurable and transcendent super-time, an idea of time in itself.””Mysteries of Aion, the god of eternity.” See my [post=66613760][post #7][/post] this thread.
 
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ananda

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I'd watch it
 
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timewerx

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Or maybe the moon was our ship...

There's a possibility.

Maybe some of early Earth colonists in their hunger for power got corrupted, created a religion which promoted ignorance, convinced the other colonists that they didn't needed technology and it was hampering their evolution and the new Earth colony gave them the opportunity to start anew without technology.

So they hid the massive colony ship in orbit with dirt from Earth named it "The Moon" so succeeding generations will have no idea it was the colony ship. Which is why the moon rocks is very similar in composition to the Earth.

But the few elite greedy colonists who deceived the other colonists continued to access the colony ship (the moon) and use its superior technology to exert control, live like immortals, and take advantage of the other colonists for their own amusement.

And the cycle of evil continued to this day where the original elite colonists pretended to be aliens were in fact, also humans and when we finally developed the technology to reach the moon. They sent secret communications banning landing of men on the moon after the first Apollo missions.

The Apollo missions were "allowed" to further convince the masses, it is made of nothing but dirt.


I made that all up. If it's true, it's purely coincidence!!
 
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rick357

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Since they would moniter us they could easily know we were coming...both when and where and have staged the landing sight.
 
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James Is Back

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So Netzarim you think God will destroy the New Earth and The New Heaven? So what happens after that? Does He create another universe and destroys that,creates another and destroys that rinse and repeat for eternity?

Or do you think he's just going to destroy us all for eternity? No Eternal Life nothing?
 
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ananda

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I don't know for sure.

It's not palatable, even for me, to think that heavenly life is not eternal, but I can only go where the text takes me.

I've been studying the earliest Buddhist texts over the last couple of years, and it seems to me that Christianity might fit as a subset of a larger Buddhist perspective. That is to say (if I was arguing from a Buddhist perspective), the Biblical God is certainly a god, and reigns in his own heaven, and his heaven is accessible by someone who practices love in this lifetime. He lifespan is in the billions of years, but is/was unaware of that fact, and so he believes it to be infinite. His kingdom will eventually end though, and the heavens will be burnt up and everything will start anew.

Or, like timewerx stated, re-creation of the universe from scratch is a possibility.
 
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timewerx

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Since they would moniter us they could easily know we were coming...both when and where and have staged the landing sight.

Hypothetically speaking they allowed the apollo missions so as to not arouse too much suspicion that something on the moon is actively preventing missions to it.
 
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timewerx

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Or, like timewerx stated, re-creation of the universe from scratch is a possibility.

Not really what I said but that is also a possible scenario.

What I meant for the "end of the Universe" are EXIT locations for our Universe. Places where you can get out of our Universe. And it's postulated they are black holes but cannot yet be verified.
 
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ananda

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Sorry for the misunderstanding, thanks for the correction!
 
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agape101

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It changes everything when you undetstand the framework of the ages.... in titus and timothy there is a reference to the "space" prior to the eonian times or ages. Paul also talks about the "consummation." The end of the ages. "In the age to come", " in this present age"... "for the ages of the ages"..... when you see the translation "for ever" as two words the second in greek is "aion" so literall shld be translated "for an age".... this is proved by evidence that the term "aionon" (which is plural of aion) shows up.... no such thing as "evers"....
 
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agape101

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Basically, if you weed through all the copypaste, you are still going to have to admit that since "aion(on)" which is the plural of aion is used. Aion cannot mean eternity, because there are no such thing as eternities.

And it only takes me 4 lines to destroy your entire argument....​
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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What a joke, I cracked up when I read this. You have destroyed nothing! Copy/paste implies dishonestly copying someone else's work and presenting it as one's own. I properly identified all my sources.

You failed to notice I quoted nine (9) Greek language sources and quoted from two pre-Christian secular Greek writings by Plato and Philo. There is a grammatical device in the Bible known as epizeuxis. A word is repeated for emphasis. Jesus poften did this "Amen, Amen." The earliest occurrence of this is in Genesis 2:17 when God told Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, in Hebrew the penalty is מות תמות/muth tamuth, literally "dying you shall die." One who does not know Greek should not try to substitute their assumptions/presuppositions for the knowledge of Greek scholars and ancient Greek writers. What is true in English is not necessarily true in other languages. Reduplicaton of aion is a way of emphasizing the endlessness of aion. See "Figures of speech used in the Bible:" E. W. Bullinger.
 
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Der Alte

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Have you ever studied Greek? Do you know anything about the Greek language or is this just your assumptions/presuppositions which change nothing?
 
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ananda

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The meaning of aion and related words are self-evident from their usage in the NT. No need for post-NT examples which redefine the word(s).
 
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Stephen Kendall

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Quote from Der Alter:

"Aion, Aionios and the lexicons:
166.
αιωνιος aionios; from 165; agelong, eternal:— eternal(66), eternity(1), forever(1)."

It seems to me that agelong is age long and not eternal and it is listed before eternal and should be the first most used definition from the source that you are quoting. Is that correct?


 
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Stephen Kendall

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With one word changing the entire Christian faith (aionios), there seems to be a present day conspiracy to own the word from one camp and the other. Much of our faith seems to be claimed whether true or not, who cares, this is war! Right! All is fair in war, even the truth is up for grabs. Refuting is the name of the game, yet there is but one truth and each side declares ownership of it. I can see why we were told to live a quiet life and to just do good, and give account of our hope to those who ask for it.

It is my estimate that in war, neither knows anything, they just shoot. The honest man isn't the refuter, but the quiet guy just watching to see if anyone of these claimers is obeying Jesus and following him. Who are people defending, for sure it isn't God, for he needs no defense?

When I was 6 years old, I was gay (1950's pleasant and happy definition). Now, I wouldn't dare be gay, for the ownership of the word was no longer mine, the perverts now own it. God owned the first rainbow, but then comes equal rights movement of the gay world and they get to own it. I have a feeling that aionios is no longer owned by the people who first had it, it too has been taken over, right? Universalists did some detective work and found discrepancy of its meanings. Will we ever really be sure what was spoken. Maybe the commands of Christ have also been taken over too, yet they aren't nearly as important as these key words! Not many are following Christ anyway or paying that much attention to real faith (obeying him), so Jesus commands are left alone and none wanting to have ownership or to take over them, right?

Can't anyone see that conspiracies are as common as leaders desires for power, be they presidents, dictators, church heads to Pharisees. How many souls and saints were martyrs for their beliefs? The simple truth is we will have knowledge in due time, right now think the best of God & Christ and love one another, obeying Jesus in this and in all things, just think we do know there is little interest in obeying Jesus so no camp has tried to take over his commands & teachings, except for his description of the punishment place/length of the wicked non-repenting ones.
 
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ananda

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Great points, Stephan Kendall. Though wouldn't you say that widespread ignorance of Jesus' direct commands & teachings is the product of attempts to dethrone them?
 
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