Shadowboxing

[imperfectchristian]

No that's impossible because God wants you to sin and worship Him with false lips and have your hearts far away from him.

Doing good for people, that's got to be the craziest thing a Christian could do, I mean that would shed the term hypocrite.

Better for you to just spend more time watching TV than living like Christ.

So you are saying God wants us to sin and not do good things for people and watch alot of TV?

 

[SUNSTONE]

So you are saying God wants us to sin and not do good things for people and watch alot of TV?

Duh, that's what I just said.

God controls everything, so whatever it is your doing that's what God wants you to do.

 

[imperfectchristian]

I'm more than sure he's a very nice down to earth guy when you get to know him.

A regular social butterfly I'm sure.

 

[SUNSTONE]

I'm more than sure he's a very nice down to earth guy when you get to know him.

Nah, in person I throw stones and run crusade practices.

 

[imperfectchristian]

Duh, that's what I just said.

God controls everything, so whatever it is your doing that's what God wants you to do.

Alrighty then.

 

[nephilimiyr]

It's true there are good things happening at all of the churches, and I don't mean to downplay those things, but this thread is about "shadowboxing", and I see a lot of that in my community.

Perhaps I am nitpicking so I wont comment any further, accept for this.

I didn't comment on what's happening at individual churches, just what's happening at this concert of prayer. I see you taking this subject that Jim brought up and expanding it too much. Yes I guess "shadowboxing" can include a great many things, but in context to what Jim was talking about, it's an event that takes place on national prayer day. This is a day that people should expect christians, muslims, or whatever to get together to pray for our nation. This isn't about praying for unity in the Body of Christ. There is nothing wrong with all denominations getting together at the steps of a court house to pray for this nation, which is in dire need of prayer and God's intervention. And it is all good and fitting that the rest of the community see this happen, regardless of the attitudes of some who attend. If what some of us believe is correct, this nation was formed with God's hand and has been blessed by God throughout our history and it is altogether fitting that we christains put asside our difference's for one day, or at least for a few hours, to come together to pray for this nation. Whether the next day they are talking about each other and resort back to backbitting is inconsequencial to the common good they came together on on national prayer day. This should be seen as a time out. I can't help what other people's attitudes are, all I can do is my part.

I find myself in awe that christians would want to come against that. I see Jims point that if it's going to be used as a political rally of sorts then it is wrong, but you Pete have taken this out to another field of meaning. I don't know what to say anymore.

 

[nephilimiyr]

A regular social butterfly I'm sure.

Some people are better in small groups.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Nah, in person I throw stones and run crusade practices.

Well then, you would get along great with some people I know.

 

[probinson]

Yes I guess "shadowboxing" can include a great many things, but in context to what Jim was talking about, it's an event that takes place on national prayer day.

Neph, this thread was never solely about the national day of prayer. It was used as one example, of which there are many, of "shadow boxing". From the OP;

...so much of what we do as Christian is nothing more than symbolic shadow boxing. We stage protests, write the editor, go to rallies, shout at the devil, quote scriptures, do “Jericho marches” around church auditoriums, march around acreage to “claim it for God”, anoint building with oil, etc.etc.etc....

I'm just relaying one example of shadow boxing (the topic of the OP) that I see in my community.

 

[JimB]

Neph, this thread was never solely about the national day of prayer. It was used as one example, of which there are many, of "shadow boxing". From the OP;



I'm just relaying one example of shadow boxing (the topic of the OP) that I see in my community.

Correctamente, Pete.

So much of what we do is just shadowboxing and the devil is content so long as Spirit-filled believers don’t get in the ring and actually mix it up with him. So I do not run without a goal. I fight like a boxer who is hitting something—not just the air. (1 Cor. 9.26 NCV) i.e., shadowboxing.

~Jim

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.​

 

[nephilimiyr]

Neph, this thread was never solely about the national day of prayer. It was used as one example, of which there are many, of "shadow boxing". From the OP;



I'm just relaying one example of shadow boxing (the topic of the OP) that I see in my community.

Well ok then, you made your point here and I have to concede. I agree with Jim's example of shadow boxing because if you say you're going to pray for one thing but then use it as a political rally that is wrong. With your example I am still confussed. Words mean things Pete and when you say no one, that means no one. How can you expect me to see you as just meaning some when you say no one? If you ask me, you haven't proved your point on what you're saying. I still see you as doing nothing more than judgeing people in ways you shouldn't. Have you made strong efforts towards unity to all the other churches in your community? If so, what have you done? I don't want to hear what they do or have done towards unity, I want to hear what you do or have done towards unity. Have you made an effort to see who is saying one thing and doing another or do you feel content with accusing people in general of doing this?

 

[probinson]

If you ask me, you haven't proved your point on what you're saying.

That's cool. I didn't ask you, and I'm not here to "prove a point".

I'm simply relaying one example of shadow boxing that I've seen. Nothing more, nothing less.

To answer your question, our church has made efforts towards building unity, for example attempting to organize cross-congregational events and outings, and have largely been shot down. We are certainly not the only church that has made these types of efforts, but as a general rule of thumb, most churches in our community don't even want to participate in joint events unless they first find out what's in it for them.

At the risk of being accused of judging again, this is largely because it seems to me that most (but not all) churches in our community are more interested in building their own kingdoms than building HIS Kingdom.

 

[SUNSTONE]

That's cool. I didn't ask you, and I'm not here to "prove a point".

I'm simply relaying one example of shadow boxing that I've seen. Nothing more, nothing less.

To answer your question, our church has made efforts towards building unity, for example attempting to organize cross-congregational events and outings, and have largely been shot down. We are certainly not the only church that has made these types of efforts, but as a general rule of thumb, most churches in our community don't even want to participate in joint events unless they first find out what's in it for them.

At the risk of being accused of judging again, this is largely because it seems to me that most (but not all) churches in our community are more interested in building their own kingdoms than building HIS Kingdom.

That's another thing that puzzles me, the lack of churches working together.
It just blows my mind at how incompetent churches are in America.

 

[nephilimiyr]

That's cool. I didn't ask you, and I'm not here to "prove a point".

Well, I know you don't care whether I agree with you or not or value my opinion enough to ask but I gave it anyway.

I'm simply relaying one example of shadow boxing that I've seen. Nothing more, nothing less.

To answer your question, our church has made efforts towards building unity, for example attempting to organize cross-congregational events and outings, and have largely been shot down. We are certainly not the only church that has made these types of efforts, but as a general rule of thumb, most churches in our community don't even want to participate in joint events unless they first find out what's in it for them.

Now hold it right there, how do you know for sure that they chose not to participate unless they find out what's in it for them? See this is what I mean. You provide no information other than just leveling accusations, you just make your statement as if we're all just supposed to understand and agree with you. I agree that there are reasons why those churches don't participate with your church but lets not by koy. How many anti-WOFers or non-charismatics here do you think would want to do any event with WOFers? Not many because most simply don't want to be associated with you guys. I base that on their interactions with WOFers in this forum here and in the General Theology forum. What do you base your "unless they first find out what's in it for them" comment?

At the risk of being accused of judging again, this is largely because it seems to me that most (but not all) churches in our community are more interested in building their own kingdoms than building HIS Kingdom.

And of course what seems to be true to you must mean that it's true.

 

[probinson]

Now hold it right there, how do you know for sure that they chose not to participate unless they find out what's in it for them?

How do you know for sure that some (but not all) of them didn't? I don't recall seeing you there. Were you involved? Do you have any idea what goes on in the church community in the town I've lived in all of my life? Why do you automatically assume that some (but not all) of the other churches are innocent and I'm only guilty of lobbing faulty accusations at some (but not all) of them?

How do I know for sure? Because I talked with some (but not all) of them, and some (but not all) of them wanted to know if there were new people that came, which church would get to "follow-up" with them. This is a recurring theme any time we try to do joint events with some (but not all) of the churches in our community.

When someone's first response to a unifying, joint event is, "how many people am I going to be able to add to my congregation", something's wrong.

And of course what seems to be true to you must mean that it's true.

Of course.

In any event, believe what you will. Some (but not all) of the churches in our community have clearly indicated by their actions that they are far more interested in building their kingdom than in building the Kingdom of God.

I hope that I was clear enough this time in communicating that I'm speaking of some (but not all) of the churches in my community.

 

[Svt4Him]

Neph, this thread was never solely about the national day of prayer. It was used as one example, of which there are many, of "shadow boxing". From the OP;



I'm just relaying one example of shadow boxing (the topic of the OP) that I see in my community.

While this may, the points made in regards to the National Day of Prayer can be made about any of those events. And your argument can also be made about church as a whole, because some lead church for the wrong reasons, so we should actually stop doing church. Using the OP's springboard of the National Day or Prayer is in fact relevant, as again, you can not say the motive for anyone was wrong, and God's people are actually doing things that can in fact push back the kingdom of darkness. To attribute their motives to some selfish desire for gain gets into the area of discernment of character of a group of people, and you don't have the authority or right to do that.

Are there things Christians do that are ineffective? Sure...look at most of the posts here. Look at church. Look at anything and you will quickly see this is not our home, but while here, if you want to pray and jimbo or you think it's wrong, then my city gates are open.

 

[probinson]

That is my only problem with meetings like this. I have nothing against people gathering together and praying together, but it's just a gigantic waste of time if no one is actually going to DO anything to make change happen.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Using the OP's springboard of the National Day or Prayer is in fact relevant, as again, you can not say the motive for anyone was wrong, and God's people are actually doing things that can in fact push back the kingdom of darkness. To attribute their motives to some selfish desire for gain gets into the area of discernment of character of a group of people, and you don't have the authority or right to do that.

What I highlighted in your post is the thing that originally made me object to what was being said here. It's the ability that some people think they have to judge everyone. This causes guilt by association also. However, during the coarse of the discussion I have learned that "no one" doesn't mean no one but very few of them, and that when someone speaks in general terms that strongly implies an accusation towards all shouldn't be taken as such because it was meantioned once before that it's only about most or some of the people. Of course this has caused a bit of confusion.

But fruit was also brought up, which I would agree we all should study if we are to judge rightly a person or people. Yet when I asked for the fruit of these people I got a vague answer of them not wanting to be in any outings and events and then more accusations and or discernment/judgement towards these people. So, I give up.

Are there things Christians do that are ineffective? Sure...look at most of the posts here. Look at church. Look at anything and you will quickly see this is not our home, but while here, if you want to pray and jimbo or you think it's wrong, then my city gates are open.

To be fair, It's not prayer that Pete and Jim object to, it's how they have judged those who are leading and involving themselves in it. Apparently they see enough bad fruit.

 

[Svt4Him]

I do agree with you, but fruit is not in relations to people praying, it's how we judge false prophets. Jesus said to pray, and to pray always, so to drop the fruit card is a misappropriation of scripture, whether intentionally or unintentionally. So again I offer my town as an open door to anyone who wants to pray.

 

[imperfectchristian]

...so to drop the fruit card...

I like that...drop the fruit card.