Sexual Criminals attending church

[Itwill Beglorious]

BTW, has anyone ever told you that you look a lot like Keith Green?

Lol, I think you will find my profile picture to be exactly like Keith Green. What a fine man and role model he was.

 

[Willie T]

Anyone here care to guess why the recidivism rate is higher for RSO's than for other groups?
Hint: It won't take you a lot of thinking to see it.

 

[com7fy8]

Anyone here care to guess why the recidivism rate is higher for RSO's than for other groups?

In the case of the RSO, the crime involves seeking a pleasure which the predator treasures, but a murderer, for example, might have committed the crime in order to protect his or her treasured pleasure.

So, it might be the murderer will not find reason to kill anyone else, if no one else is effectively messing with the murderer's treasure pleasure. Meanwhile, the reoffending predator is going after his or her treasure pleasure, which is still out there when the person gets out.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

I will be praying that you and the SO's can reach through the encasement of ice that may enshroud the hearts of others in your congregation.

I love the care and concern for SO's that I'm reading in so many of these responses. But please be aware any time you get frustrated by unhelpful attitudes from the rest of your congregation that it may not be 'ice-shrouded hearts' that are causing all the negative reactions. A church of any size is almost certainly going to include SO victims and their families among the congregation, as well as the offenders themselves. So if you come across someone acting in an unloving way, bear in mind they may be reacting to the pain of their own or a loved one's past abuse.

 

[FireDragon76]

Here's a good TED talk by a man that himself was designated a sex offender.

Adam Walsh, the famous TV personality on Americ's Most Wanted (he became famous partly because his child was abducted, sexually abused, then killed), has himself admitted to having sex with underage girls in his early 20's. Which, if he had been convicted, would have made him a sex offender.

People that commit sex crimes are not necessarily monsters. Sometimes they are people that make mistakes due to psychological problems or get caught in society's fear and prejudices (as the man in the previously noted TED talk demonstrated).

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It becomes difficult because... well this information tends to divide a church. Not only that but people on both sides have legitimate concerns. Nobody wants their child, or any child molested. Nobody. But deep down, we also know that God can forgive the vilest of sinners.

I imagine that it can divide a church; and just like back in Corinth, there can be a lot of things that pose a challenge to keeping everyone on the same side. The problem, though, is that despite the fact that people on both sides have "legitimate" concerns, this doesn't tell us the extent of the ethical value of those concerns, nor does it account for concerns on the same topic which remain unnoticed and are actually illegitimate. And some of what is considered as "legitimate" is emotional overreaction over potentialities that either haven't happened or can be fully prevented but without having to kick the offender(s) to the door.

But we also do not have knowledge of the inner workings of a man's heart. They were manipulative enough to gain trust (some in a church setting) that last time they did something. So much so that people put their guard down. Are they truly repentant? Are they truly changed?

...this doesn't make sense to me. If I knew someone in my church had an actual "history," then gaining my trust on, say, watching over and caring for my child would be off table. It just wouldn't be an option of ministry that I would allow them. Ever. But, if the same person wanted to lead the congregation in singing or turned out to be a great cook, then I'd let them minister to the church in those capacities.

What seems black and white is sometimes much more muddy. The consequences of a child being molested are much more significant than a child discovering that some people fornicate. Both are terrible sins. But one has a victim that statistically is much more likely to perpetrate the action.

.....yes, I agree, but let's face it. In the pragmatist culture in which we live.........no one's really measuring the social and psychometrics of those of the rest of us who are instead worshiping within a collection of adulterers, fornicators, and closet inappropriate content addicts, and being that we are pragmatists, we think the church still "works adequately" with no ramifications for our children. However, that assumption is a mistake.

I have had to explain issues of adultery and divorce to children. That is a hard subject. But it pales in comparison to having to deal with a victim of molestation. There is mental and spiritual damage that is far beyond what a child experiences even if it were their own parent getting divorced.

...........my mother was molested at age 5 by three teenage boys, so you can spare me the social differentiating that needs to be 'discerned' on this one subject. I've already had to learn the significance of all of this, and I have an education in social science, so I really do understand all this. But thanks for trying to make heads or tails of it for us.

That is why this issue is hard. The consequences are life or death in some cases and as leaders, we should not take these decisions too flippantly.

I beg to differ. It's not a difficult issue to resolve. You simply don't let those guys tend to children in any shape or form; surely they can understand why. THEN, The rest of the church needs to get their big boy and big girl shoes on and at least pretend that they're living in a real world, with real sin, all of which needs to be appropriately and biblically addressed in Christ-like fashion, and not merely by way of the status-quo 'civic' sensibilities (and fears) proffered by modern day society. See, it's not that hard to figure out. What is difficult to figure out is how to deal with the hard-heartedness of so-called Christians who refuse to "love even their enemies," as well as who show up at church expecting a full-service treatment. But, once they realize all of this and then begin to trade their pragmatism or idealism for some realism, then I'm sure things will work much better in these kinds of cases. For everyone, young and old alike.

[p.s. ...Keith Green was a great Christian singer.]

 

[eleos1954]

Good idea. We are going to put together a formal policy for sexual offenders. Now these guys claim they are saved. Which from the ones I have gotten to know, that appears to be true. Maybe we should have the board interview them and get their input on what restrictions should be put in place?

I love that these people found Jesus. To be honest though, I read through some of their crimes and it made my blood boil. I had to stop, and beg God to help me give them grace. I am torn between my desire to see God do more transforming work in their lives and my sense of justice and protection that almost wishes they were hung for their crimes. I know this is horrible and I need to check myself and ask God daily to help me not hate them. It is only because of God's grace and His continual working in my life that I can try to show love to them.

I say the above paragraph because I empathize with many members of the congregation who feel anger at times over this. Even some members of staff feel that way. The other day someone confided that they wished someone would make an accusation so we could kick these guys out. I am torn. I hate to see people feel unsafe, but I hate to see people that God loves be denied the opportunity to seek him.

Anyway, we will keep trying to minister to and love these guys while also trying to protect the innocent. It is a difficult needle to thread. I hope I did not come across to harsh. This is a tough subject and I am just trying to be honest with what we are dealing with.

Are you going to put a formal policy (restrictions) for "reformed" drug users, various assault offenses, domestic abuse etc. ? Or are the restrictions going to be the same for all offenders?

Think about this.

In speaking of the particular persons attending your church, they may or may not re-offend ... we do not know .... but we know that they did. Now, the broke the law ... how is a policy going to give you more protection than the law?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I need advice...

Our church has a great recovery ministry that brings in a lot of "really bad" people. This is a good thing because Jesus came for everyone. However, the issue comes up that we have multiple sex offenders that attend the church (including one member that is related to a staff member, we also have at least a couple that were convicted of child sexual abuse). They have all "served their time" and are in compliance with their probation. We also have a number of people who lived lives of "questionable character" before committing their lives to Jesus. They came out of very bad drug situations, prison, etc.

I think it is absolutely wonderful that these people are now participating in church. I praise God for them. However, we also have a number of children in our church.

What can we do to protect children and how can we make sure the sex offenders are accountable? What boundaries should we create? We want to extend grace, but as we all know, one case of abuse can ruin a child's life and set them on a similar course. So we want to be very careful with this situation.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

You all need to speak to a parole officer. In some states sex offenders are not allowed to attend church..

I actually worked with a sex offender once, and as a condition of his parole he was not allowed to go to church (because of the danger he presented to children). So check the laws of your state, as well as the conditions of each offenders parole because it may vary person to person...

If you want to protect families with children, you could have family services separately from others, with enough space in between services that the children won't be inadvertently running into the various offenders.

 

[FireDragon76]

You all need to speak to a parole officer. In some states sex offenders are not allowed to attend church..

Increasingly, courts are recognizing that attending religious services is a right, that the state cannot prevent people from exercising their freedom of religion.

Churches need to accommodate all kinds of people, this is what we are called to do as disciples of Jesus Christ. A church that does not do this has ceased to be faithful disciples and instead is submitting to a spirit of fear. It is true that children need to be protected at church, but this should not come at the expense of the mission of the Church to welcome everyone.

Just because some parents are uncomfortable in our culture with talking about sex and personal boundaries, doesn't make it OK to segregate churches.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Increasingly, courts are recognizing that attending religious services is a right, that the state cannot prevent people from exercising their freedom of religion.

Churches need to accommodate all kinds of people, this is what we are called to do as disciples of Jesus Christ. A church that does not do this has ceased to be faithful disciples and instead is submitting to a spirit of fear. It is true that children need to be protected at church, but this should not come at the expense of the mission of the Church to welcome everyone.

I love Jesus very much. Love God and would give my life for Him.

But my grandchildren? They wouldn't be subjected to the dangers of attending services with known and convicted sex offenders under my watch.

I know anyone can change and that God can change them. I also know many people lie about anything if it serves their purposes - and 'oh look how great a Christian I am' seems to serve many people's purpose who don't live it.

I'm not willing that my grandchildren catch the eye of some sex offender at church, and who then might later think there wouldn't be a danger from them as a result. It's our job to protect them.

That's not unChristian, how many atheists were created by the Catholic church because of their unwillingness to address these issues and protect the innocent children..?

There are good ways to allow sex offenders to have church and Bible study without endangering children, and that is with separate services.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

You ought to look at the circumstances of each individual's crime and take it on a case by case basis. In some jurisdictions, public urination can get you on the RSO list.

 

[FireDragon76]

I love Jesus very much. Love God and would give my life for Him.

But my grandchildren? They wouldn't be subjected to the dangers of attending services with known and convicted sex offenders under my watch.

There are potential dangers everywhere. At my church people can bring guns to church, as we have no canons or constitutional ammendments against it. As somebody who rejects personal ownership of firearms as an unqualified good, you don't think that makes me feel a little nervous? Yet I recognize the person who feels they need to pack heat has a right to be there.

I'm not willing that my grandchildren catch the eye of some sex offender at church, and who then might later think there wouldn't be a danger from them as a result. It's our job to protect them.

Is this really about protecting children or designating certain peoples as unclean?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Is this really about protecting children or designating certain peoples as unclean?

Look at the Catholic church and you tell me...

I wouldn't take my grandchildren there if you paid me even if I believed in their religion, why? Because it's not safe in their churches..

Are we to turn protestant churches into havens for sexual predators the same as they did?

There is an admonition against causing our brother to sin.. you don't think that applies to parading children and young girls in front of sexual predators?

I don't care whether they are around me.. I care if they are around children.

 

[FireDragon76]

Look at the Catholic church and you tell me...

I wouldn't take my grandchildren there if you paid me even if I believed in their religion, why? Because it's not safe in their churches..

I think that's an overreaction not supported by the facts. Kids don't get abused by priests just sitting in the pews and standing in line at the confessional.

Are we to turn protestant churches into havens for sexual predators the same as they did?

Some Protestant churches already are. And they aren't creepy ex-cons, they are upstanding men of the cloth you'ld never suspect. Which is why this is more about moral panic than serious analysis.

There is an admonition against causing our brother to sin.. you don't think that applies to parading children and young girls in front of sexual predators?

Is your church having swimsuit contests with kids on sunday mornings?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think that's an overreaction, a kind of cultural hysteria not supported by the facts. Kids don't get abused by priests just sitting in the pews and standing in line at the confessional.



Some Protestant churches already are. And they aren't creepy ex-cons, they are upstanding men of the cloth you'ld never suspect. Which is why this is more about moral panic than serious analysis.



Is your church having swimsuit contests with kids on sunday morning or something?

1) it's not seeing kids in bathing suits that got these predators in prison for raping children in the first place.

2) of course there are sexual predators that haven't been caught yet. It doesn't mean we should parade our children in front of those who have.

3) no.. kids get abused by preists in the back rooms of churches. And no its not cultural hysteria to protect our kids.. It's the job of parents to protect them, not feed them to predators.

If you want to offer your child as a sacrifice to these people it's your choice, mine is to do the job God gave me to do. Protect them.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

of course there are sexual predators that haven't been caught yet. It doesn't mean we should parade our children in front of those who have.

In our church, we don't parade children in front of anyone. I'd find that a bit creepy, even in a church that was guaranteed 100% free of child molesters (supposing that were even possible).

 

[Phil 1:21]

Forgiving a burglar does not require one to hand him the keys to one's house.

 

[com7fy8]

Among other things, if an offender gets saved, he or she has become a child of God . . . the same as any of us. And any child of God has God-given ability to minister to any of us, to help us get more real with God and in how to relate in love > 1 Peter 4:9-10.

So, if you experience that a person is able to so minister to you, keep drawing this out . . . for your own good and for the person's own development. And this can help to keep the person from doing what is harmful, keeping the person busy with helping one's brothers and sisters. Plus, this can help keep the person with other people so the person is positively supervised.

 

[WolfGate]

As someone who worked directly with Sex Offenders and Child Molesters for 24 years, I will make a suggestion that will probably surprise you.

Simply ask the Sex Offenders, themselves, to give you the restrictions they hope will be upheld. Some of you seem to need to have your eyes opened.

In many ways, this is what we did in our church when I was chairman of the elder board. We had a discussion which resulted in agreed upon boundaries. There were some things we would insist upon. For example, if the offender had no children of their own, they did not go back into the education area for any reason. If they did have a child, they only went to get their child when accompanied by an elder or someone else who was designated and granted that responsibility by the elder board. Beyond that, we generally crafted things through discussion.

For example, one man usually attended with his wife, but if she was not able to come, it was agreed it was best for him if he immediately upon entering the church went to speak to an elder. The elder would then sit somewhere near him during service and watch him depart after. He wanted that because it not only kept him from giving into any temptation, but he also knew some on the congregation would be uncomfortable and if they knew he was always with someone, then it might alleviate their concern.

 

[com7fy8]

Mainly the church staff needs to keep the children in constant supervision. It doesn’t need to be brought up that it’s to protect them from abusers it can be simply to make sure they are always supervised for their own safety. It is best to have groups of at least two people supervising the children. With accusations of abuse in the church at an all time high I strongly suggest not to allow any single individual to supervise the children. Not only for the children’s safety but also for the staff’s safety.

Our church is in Massachusetts, and I was told, if I understood right, that in church child care law requires that there need to be two people and they can not be a married couple.

Also, I can see it is good to supervise all children at all times,and not only because of known registered offenders, but because you don't know who might be an unknown person attending or slipping into the building during a service.

And if a child goes to a bathroom you might do good to first check the bathroom before the child goes in, plus children can invent things to do and where to go once they go out for a bathroom trip if they are not accompanied