Sexual Criminals attending church

[Itwill Beglorious]

I need advice...

Our church has a great recovery ministry that brings in a lot of "really bad" people. This is a good thing because Jesus came for everyone. However, the issue comes up that we have multiple sex offenders that attend the church (including one member that is related to a staff member, we also have at least a couple that were convicted of child sexual abuse). They have all "served their time" and are in compliance with their probation. We also have a number of people who lived lives of "questionable character" before committing their lives to Jesus. They came out of very bad drug situations, prison, etc.

I think it is absolutely wonderful that these people are now participating in church. I praise God for them. However, we also have a number of children in our church.

What can we do to protect children and how can we make sure the sex offenders are accountable? What boundaries should we create? We want to extend grace, but as we all know, one case of abuse can ruin a child's life and set them on a similar course. So we want to be very careful with this situation.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Good question, seems to be a catch 22 no? Perhaps such ministries should be separated, or separate services? I don't know, but I do know, I would not want my child to be subject to potential risks, under the pretense "oh they've changed" when I could not know with certainty, and certainly knowing a Christian can backslide, regress for a time, and understanding human nature, I would not want to take the risk. Unfortunately, in many Churches there are people who more or less dump their kids off at Church, the parents do not even attend, it is a break from the kids for them. The wrong people with this knowledge could potentially exploit that knowledge.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I need advice...

Our church has a great recovery ministry that brings in a lot of "really bad" people. This is a good thing because Jesus came for everyone. However, the issue comes up that we have multiple sex offenders that attend the church (including one member that is related to a staff member, we also have at least a couple that were convicted of child sexual abuse). They have all "served their time" and are in compliance with their probation. We also have a number of people who lived lives of "questionable character" before committing their lives to Jesus. They came out of very bad drug situations, prison, etc.

I think it is absolutely wonderful that these people are now participating in church. I praise God for them. However, we also have a number of children in our church.

What can we do to protect children and how can we make sure the sex offenders are accountable? What boundaries should we create? We want to extend grace, but as we all know, one case of abuse can ruin a child's life and set them on a similar course. So we want to be very careful with this situation.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Mainly the church staff needs to keep the children in constant supervision. It doesn’t need to be brought up that it’s to protect them from abusers it can be simply to make sure they are always supervised for their own safety. It is best to have groups of at least two people supervising the children. With accusations of abuse in the church at an all time high I strongly suggest not to allow any single individual to supervise the children. Not only for the children’s safety but also for the staff’s safety. I don’t know how big your church is so depending on how big it is you may need multiple groups to watch several different areas. Hopefully your church will have enough volunteers to accomplish this. I would suggest approaching the parents of children directly asking them for help instead of making an announcement to the entire congregation. This way you can avoid someone who is of questionable trustworthiness from volunteering and having to go thru the pain of not accepting their offer.

 

[HTacianas]

I need advice...

Our church has a great recovery ministry that brings in a lot of "really bad" people. This is a good thing because Jesus came for everyone. However, the issue comes up that we have multiple sex offenders that attend the church (including one member that is related to a staff member, we also have at least a couple that were convicted of child sexual abuse). They have all "served their time" and are in compliance with their probation. We also have a number of people who lived lives of "questionable character" before committing their lives to Jesus. They came out of very bad drug situations, prison, etc.

I think it is absolutely wonderful that these people are now participating in church. I praise God for them. However, we also have a number of children in our church.

What can we do to protect children and how can we make sure the sex offenders are accountable? What boundaries should we create? We want to extend grace, but as we all know, one case of abuse can ruin a child's life and set them on a similar course. So we want to be very careful with this situation.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

First, adopt the Cub Scout "two adult" rule. It means that no child can ever be out of sight of at least two adults.

I was once a Cub Scout leader and they have adopted some very good policies because of their own sexual abuse scandal. Some of those policies include somewhat explicit discussions parents should have with their children. You should be able to find their policies online that will tell you just about everything you need to know.

If you can't find it online, get an updated copy of the Cub Scout handbook.

 

[Basil the Great]

It is a sad world that we live in anymore, is it not?

 

[Dan the deacon]

It is a sad world that we live in anymore, is it not?

Yes it is but it is nothing new.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

The church should not be regarded as a free 'babysitting service'. Parents/carers should be responsible for their children and aware of where they are at all times unless the children are attending activities supervised by the children's ministry team. This is something that should apply in ALL churches, not just those where you know some members have a past criminal record, because anyone can wander into a church building to attend a service and you know nothing about that person's background.

As others have mentioned, ensuring that a minimum of two (non-related) adults are present with children at all times is important. As is ensuring that anyone involved in children's ministry has the relevant police checks that apply to your country/state. Just bear in mind that these checks only tell you whether someone has been caught doing wrong in the past - they still can't guarantee that person is safe to be around.

 

[Tolworth John]

What can we do to protect children and how can we make sure the sex offenders are accountable? What boundaries should we create?

A very simple rule.

No one is ever alone with a child.
There are always a male and a female member of staff in attendance.
The register to not only record which children were present but also which adults and in what roles.

Ensure that All staff know that complaints of inapropriate behaviour are always to be recorded and investigated.
Ensure that there is a team who can do this and that every team member knows that complaints will be investigate, no matter who they are made against.

That is, a complaint against the pastor or his son will have a pair of elders talking to them and to the child, in the presence of the childs parents and referral to the police will follow if the alergation is repeated by the child. ( no sweeping it under the carpet )

 

[Runswithdogs]

Jimmyhinton.org is where I would recomend starting. Lots of good knowlegable advice & info from somebody who knows what hes talking about.

 

[eleos1954]

I need advice...

Our church has a great recovery ministry that brings in a lot of "really bad" people. This is a good thing because Jesus came for everyone. However, the issue comes up that we have multiple sex offenders that attend the church (including one member that is related to a staff member, we also have at least a couple that were convicted of child sexual abuse). They have all "served their time" and are in compliance with their probation. We also have a number of people who lived lives of "questionable character" before committing their lives to Jesus. They came out of very bad drug situations, prison, etc.

I think it is absolutely wonderful that these people are now participating in church. I praise God for them. However, we also have a number of children in our church.

What can we do to protect children and how can we make sure the sex offenders are accountable? What boundaries should we create? We want to extend grace, but as we all know, one case of abuse can ruin a child's life and set them on a similar course. So we want to be very careful with this situation.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Safety in numbers ... and the safety number is to be the highest of people who do not have questionable character and be as high as possible. Holds true with children or otherwise. That does not at all mean disassociation ... just more people of known non-questionable character around at all times. The odds of "something" happening goes way way down.

I worked in a prison system for 25 years. The majority of officers do not carry weapons. Now, that is a different setting granted. But the success of "keeping the peace" is officer presence. Because of the controlled setting it takes less presence, but the principle is the same. Presence.

 

[Willie T]

As someone who worked directly with Sex Offenders and Child Molesters for 24 years, I will make a suggestion that will probably surprise you.

Simply ask the Sex Offenders, themselves, to give you the restrictions they hope will be upheld. Some of you seem to need to have your eyes opened.

 

[Itwill Beglorious]

As someone who worked directly with Sex Offenders and Child Molesters for 24 years, I will make a suggestion that will probably surprise you.

Simply ask the Sex Offenders, themselves, to give you the restrictions they hope will be upheld. Some of you seem to need to have your eyes opened.

Good idea. We are going to put together a formal policy for sexual offenders. Now these guys claim they are saved. Which from the ones I have gotten to know, that appears to be true. Maybe we should have the board interview them and get their input on what restrictions should be put in place?

I love that these people found Jesus. To be honest though, I read through some of their crimes and it made my blood boil. I had to stop, and beg God to help me give them grace. I am torn between my desire to see God do more transforming work in their lives and my sense of justice and protection that almost wishes they were hung for their crimes. I know this is horrible and I need to check myself and ask God daily to help me not hate them. It is only because of God's grace and His continual working in my life that I can try to show love to them.

I say the above paragraph because I empathize with many members of the congregation who feel anger at times over this. Even some members of staff feel that way. The other day someone confided that they wished someone would make an accusation so we could kick these guys out. I am torn. I hate to see people feel unsafe, but I hate to see people that God loves be denied the opportunity to seek him.

Anyway, we will keep trying to minister to and love these guys while also trying to protect the innocent. It is a difficult needle to thread. I hope I did not come across to harsh. This is a tough subject and I am just trying to be honest with what we are dealing with.

 

[Willie T]

Good idea. We are going to put together a formal policy for sexual offenders. Now these guys claim they are saved. Which from the ones I have gotten to know, that appears to be true. Maybe we should have the board interview them and get their input on what restrictions should be put in place?

I love that these people found Jesus. To be honest though, I read through some of their crimes and it made my blood boil. I had to stop, and beg God to help me give them grace. I am torn between my desire to see God do more transforming work in their lives and my sense of justice and protection that almost wishes they were hung for their crimes. I know this is horrible and I need to check myself and ask God daily to help me not hate them. It is only because of God's grace and His continual working in my life that I can try to show love to them.

I say the above paragraph because I empathize with many members of the congregation who feel anger at times over this. Even some members of staff feel that way. The other day someone confided that they wished someone would make an accusation so we could kick these guys out. I am torn. I hate to see people feel unsafe, but I hate to see people that God loves be denied the opportunity to seek him.

Anyway, we will keep trying to minister to and love these guys while also trying to protect the innocent. It is a difficult needle to thread. I hope I did not come across to harsh. This is a tough subject and I am just trying to be honest with what we are dealing with.

It may not be known to most people, but each one of those people not only, willingly, went through a lot of therapy, but they all "report" monthly to authorities.….. when they could actually disappear tomorrow, never to be seen nor heard from again. And they do this of their own volition. They know who and "what" they are, and they are not pleased about it. They did not, may I point out, deliberately decide to become Child Molesters, any more than any of the rest of us ever decided to deliberately pack the baggage we all carry around with us.

You will be surprised to learn that they will probably recommend restrictions and requirements that none of you ever even considered.

 

[Willie T]

I love that these people found Jesus. To be honest though, I read through some of their crimes and it made my blood boil. I had to stop, and beg God to help me give them grace. I am torn between my desire to see God do more transforming work in their lives and my sense of justice and protection that almost wishes they were hung for their crimes. I know this is horrible and I need to check myself and ask God daily to help me not hate them. It is only because of God's grace and His continual working in my life that I can try to show love to them.

I say the above paragraph because I empathize with many members of the congregation who feel anger at times over this. Even some members of staff feel that way. The other day someone confided that they wished someone would make an accusation so we could kick these guys out. I am torn. I hate to see people feel unsafe, but I hate to see people that God loves be denied the opportunity to seek him.

Don't feel bad about your inner desires. Actually, you would not believe how many SO's feel exactly the same way about themselves.
When I was young, I worked for 6 years at our State's largest Mental Hospital — on the Forensic Ward. One day four other aides actually had to pull me off a patient who was bragging about a book he was writing concerning his crimes. (They don't all respond to treatment.) Truth be known, I might have killed him.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I need advice...

Our church has a great recovery ministry that brings in a lot of "really bad" people. This is a good thing because Jesus came for everyone. However, the issue comes up that we have multiple sex offenders that attend the church (including one member that is related to a staff member, we also have at least a couple that were convicted of child sexual abuse). They have all "served their time" and are in compliance with their probation. We also have a number of people who lived lives of "questionable character" before committing their lives to Jesus. They came out of very bad drug situations, prison, etc.

I think it is absolutely wonderful that these people are now participating in church. I praise God for them. However, we also have a number of children in our church.

What can we do to protect children and how can we make sure the sex offenders are accountable? What boundaries should we create? We want to extend grace, but as we all know, one case of abuse can ruin a child's life and set them on a similar course. So we want to be very careful with this situation.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure why this is such a difficult scenario to "figure out"? Obviously, going the route of trumping up false accusations against "really bad people"--that is, those we know who have had a really, really shady past--is a Christian option, one to be done in the spirit of truth and grace? [Nah! Not really? Right?]

Or, maybe we should do the same things for our children that we'd do when protecting them from the social and psychological influences of various adulterers and fornicators who are in the midst of our churches as well. Maybe?

[And before anyone gets any ideas and starts thinking to themselves, "Oh, 2PV must be 'one of those guys.'" No, I'm not, but I do think it's important for us to fully realize that sin, hypocrisy, and church discipline cut both ways within the social matrix of Christ's Church.........................Just sayin, since Romans chapter 1 also has a 2nd and a 3rd chapter that follows, and we tend to forget that fact............................']

 

[Itwill Beglorious]

I'm not sure why this is such a difficult scenario to "figure out"? Obviously, going the route of trumping up false accusations against "really bad people"--that is, those we know who have had a really, really shady past--is a Christian option, one to be done in the spirit of truth and grace? [Nah! Not really? Right?]

Or, maybe we should do the same things for our children that we'd do when protecting them from the social and psychological influences of various adulterers and fornicators who are in the midst of our churches as well. Maybe?

[And before anyone gets any ideas and starts thinking to themselves, "Oh, 2PV must be 'one of those guys.'" No, I'm not, but I do think it's important for us to fully realize that sin, hypocrisy, and church discipline cut both ways within the social matrix of Christ's Church.........................Just sayin, since Romans chapter 1 also has a 2nd and a 3rd chapter that follows, and we tend to forget that fact............................']

It becomes difficult because... well this information tends to divide a church. Not only that but people on both sides have legitimate concerns. Nobody wants their child, or any child molested. Nobody. But deep down, we also know that God can forgive the vilest of sinners.

But we also do not have knowledge of the inner workings of a man's heart. They were manipulative enough to gain trust (some in a church setting) that last time they did something. So much so that people put their guard down. Are they truly repentant? Are they truly changed?

What seems black and white is sometimes much more muddy. The consequences of a child being molested are much more significant than a child discovering that some people fornicate. Both are terrible sins. But one has a victim that statistically is much more likely to perpetrate the action.

I have had to explain issues of adultery and divorce to children. That is a hard subject. But it pales in comparison to having to deal with a victim of molestation. There is mental and spiritual damage that is far beyond what a child experiences even if it were their own parent getting divorced.

That is why this issue is hard. The consequences are life or death in some cases and as leaders, we should not take these decisions too flippantly.

 

[FireDragon76]

Many sex offenders have not offended against children per se. The idea that the quintessential sex offender is the "creepy stranger" is more stereotype than reality. Most sex offenders know their victims, and many in fact are their own family members. Another myth is that sex offenders are beyond help and will reoffend. This is simply not backed up by the facts.

I really think people need to worry more about unconvicted sex offenders. Common sense guidelines need to be used to protect children, regardless of the history of people that attend your church.

 

[Itwill Beglorious]

I really think people need to worry more about unconvicted sex offenders.

First off, many sex offenders have not offended against children per se. The idea that the quintessential sex offender is the "creepy stranger" is more stereotype than reality. Most sex offenders know their victims, and many in fact are their own family members. Another myth is that sex offenders are beyond help and will reoffend. This is simply not backed up by the facts.

Given the church environment, the previous offenders do know the children in the church and their familes.

Regarding myths and stats. See here... https://www.smart.gov/pdfs/TheEffectivenessofTreatmentforAdultSexualOffenders.pdf

The average recidivism rates for violent crime
and any crime were 6.6 percent and 22.4 percent for
treated sex offenders, compared to 11.8 percent and 32.5
percent for untreated sex offenders, respectively.​

So if we had a murder in our congregation, there would be relatively low chance of committing the crime again. However, 1 out of 4 treated sex offenders re-commit crimes. That, in my opinion, is not as encouraging. These are stats, not myths.

We should not shy away from the task just because it is hard, but we do need to be mindful of the risks and seek to mitigate the potential harm to innocent people where it makes sense.

We do have previous child sex offenders in the congregation. I totally understand that some people get registered for more "benign" domestic disputes, but we are talking about some pretty serious crimes in this case.

 

[FireDragon76]

Given the church environment, the previous offenders do know the children in the church and their familes.

I'm not talking about acquaintances but people with whom one has a level of intimacy. I don't know how your church is but I would say I only really know maybe 4-5 people at my church and I think that's typical, and we have a small congregation.

Regarding myths and stats. See here... https://www.smart.gov/pdfs/TheEffectivenessofTreatmentforAdultSexualOffenders.pdf

The average recidivism rates for violent crime
and any crime were 6.6 percent and 22.4 percent for
treated sex offenders, compared to 11.8 percent and 32.5
percent for untreated sex offenders, respectively.​

​

Those guys at your church are likely not "untreated". If they are on parole, even an accusation could land them in jail. I seriously doubt you have to be worrying about those folks beyond simple common-sense precautions.

 

[Willie T]

It becomes difficult because... well this information tends to divide a church. Not only that but people on both sides have legitimate concerns. Nobody wants their child, or any child molested. Nobody. But deep down, we also know that God can forgive the vilest of sinners.

But we also do not have knowledge of the inner workings of a man's heart. They were manipulative enough to gain trust (some in a church setting) that last time they did something. So much so that people put their guard down. Are they truly repentant? Are they truly changed?

What seems black and white is sometimes much more muddy. The consequences of a child being molested are much more significant than a child discovering that some people fornicate. Both are terrible sins. But one has a victim that statistically is much more likely to perpetrate the action.

I have had to explain issues of adultery and divorce to children. That is a hard subject. But it pales in comparison to having to deal with a victim of molestation. There is mental and spiritual damage that is far beyond what a child experiences even if it were their own parent getting divorced.

That is why this issue is hard. The consequences are life or death in some cases and as leaders, we should not take these decisions too flippantly.

You are on exactly the right path, with clear and Jesus-inspired thinking. I commend you for your heart and attitude, and I will be praying that you and the SO's can reach through the encasement of ice that may enshroud the hearts of others in your congregation.

BTW, has anyone ever told you that you look a lot like Keith Green?