Sex is a bad thing?

[Jesusthekingofking]

Your assumptions about Man and Women who devote their life to God is very off and as much as people have tried to correct your absolute faulty ideas it is clear you just want to bash people without understanding.

You're assuming also. When I read the bible, Paul and other apostles didn't lock themselves out, they went out. Also many ppl seems to live their normal life. So does these lay ppl didn't devote to God enough than those who are isolated?

 

[Taodeching]

You're assuming also. When I read the bible, Paul and other apostles didn't lock themselves out, they went out. Also many ppl seems to live their normal life. So does these lay ppl didn't devote to God enough than those who are isolated?

Paul and the other Apostles didn't have computers, Churches with pews, potlucks, and 1 thousand other things big freaking deal it's not in the Bible not everything is meant to be in the Bible. Christianity and the practices developed not staying stagnant. You won't find "go only by the Bible" in the Bible that is an idea of men.

It was the early Church whom complied the Bible and passed down Christ teaching, if these brave Men and Women who dedicated their whole life to God did something they should have been doing te Church would have spoken. Let me tell you this if it hadn't been for Monks preserve copies of Scripture there would not be any now to use for personal use. Here is some more about Monks and Nuns:

When Martin Luther set off the Protestant Reformation, he unfortunately birthed a tradition of badmouthing monasticism. On many occasions he openly rejected monasticism, and even claimed that monasticism is unsupported by Scripture:

“I would suggest to those in high places in the church, firstly, that they should do away with all vows and religious orders; or at least not speak of them with approval or praise… This kind of life finds no testimony or support in Scripture, but has been made to look imposing solely by the works of monks and priests. However numerous, sacred, and arduous they may be, these works, in God’s sight, are in no way whatever superior to the works of a farmer laboring in the field, or of a woman looking after her home… Vows only tend to the increase of pride and presumption.”
~ Martin Luther (The Babylonian Captivity of the Church)

“Hence all monasteries are founded upon the filth of the devil.”
~ Martin Luther (sermon on the Fourth Sunday after Trinity, commenting on Luke 6:36-42)

Yet when we read the Bible, we meet godly men who lived like monks. Let’s consider the biblical stories of Elijah, those who took the Nazarite vow, John the Baptist, and the earliest examples of Christians living after Pentecost.

St. Elijah the Tishbite

Elijah was celibate, and he spent his life serving the Lord as a prophet. He spent a number of years as an ascetic, living alone in the wilderness, drinking only water and eating whatever the ravens would bring to him:

Then the word of the Lord came to [Elijah], saying, “Get away from here and turn eastward, and hide by the Brook Cherith, which flows into the Jordan. And it will be that you shall drink from the brook, and I have commanded the ravens to feed you there.” So he went and did according to the word of the Lord, for he went and stayed by the Brook Cherith, which flows into the Jordan. The ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening; and he drank from the brook. (1 Kings 17:2-6)

According to historian Andrew Jotischkey, there were many patristic and medieval monks who considered Elijah to be a preeminent example of monastic life:

Patristic and medieval commentary celebrated Elijah as the Old Testament “type” of the hermit. Jerome discussed the respective claims of Elijah and John the Baptist to the title of “the first monk,” alongside the Egyptian desert fathers Anthony and Paul of Thebes. Rupert of Dentz, in the twelfth century, described Elijah as the “author and initiator” of monasticism. To Peter Damian, Elijah was the originator of the eremitical life. Monks themselves, like the Egyptian Onuphrius, were aware of following the example of Elijah; Peter the Venerable, looking back at the generation of Onuphrius as founders, saw Elijah as the ultimate monastic founder-figure. … Gerard of Nazareth prefaced his biographical collection of hermits by appealing to the example of Elijah.

The Nazarite Vow

A distinct aspect of Christian monasticism is its relative austerity, compared to the requirements made of other Christians. Monks and nuns are normally expected to make vows of celebacy, poverty, stability, and obedience. While other Christians are permitted to marry, to have personal possessions, to move from place to place, and to enjoy some level of independence in many decisions, monastics accept a life in which a greater level of strictness is expected in these four areas.

There is Scriptural precedent to the idea of having a special religious order, in which participants are required to meet standards not normally required of others. In the Old Testament, God provided people with the option of taking the Nazarite vow:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk. All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow. All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body. He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head. (Numbers 6:2-8)

There is nothing sinful about eating grapes, and there is nothing wrong with drinking wine or strong drink. It is not wrong for a man to have an occasional haircut. And there is nothing wrong with helping prepare a dead body for a funeral. Yet a Nazarite would willingly avoid these things, in obedience to his/her religious vows.

As part of a religious order, a faithful Nazarite accepted the additional austerity required for that way of life. So it is today with monastics.

Find more: Monasticism in Scripture

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

Paul and the other Apostles didn't have computers, Churches with pews, potlucks, and 1 thousand other things big freaking deal it's not in the Bible not everything is meant to be in the Bible. Christianity and the practices developed not staying stagnant. You won't find "go only by the Bible" in the Bible that is an idea of men.

It was the early Church whom complied the Bible and passed down Christ teaching, if these brave Men and Women who dedicated their whole life to God did something they should have been doing te Church would have spoken. Let me tell you this if it hadn't been for Monks preserve copies of Scripture there would not be any now to use for personal use. Here is some more about Monks and Nuns:

When Martin Luther set off the Protestant Reformation, he unfortunately birthed a tradition of badmouthing monasticism. On many occasions he openly rejected monasticism, and even claimed that monasticism is unsupported by Scripture:

“I would suggest to those in high places in the church, firstly, that they should do away with all vows and religious orders; or at least not speak of them with approval or praise… This kind of life finds no testimony or support in Scripture, but has been made to look imposing solely by the works of monks and priests. However numerous, sacred, and arduous they may be, these works, in God’s sight, are in no way whatever superior to the works of a farmer laboring in the field, or of a woman looking after her home… Vows only tend to the increase of pride and presumption.”
~ Martin Luther (The Babylonian Captivity of the Church)

“Hence all monasteries are founded upon the filth of the devil.”
~ Martin Luther (sermon on the Fourth Sunday after Trinity, commenting on Luke 6:36-42)

Yet when we read the Bible, we meet godly men who lived like monks. Let’s consider the biblical stories of Elijah, those who took the Nazarite vow, John the Baptist, and the earliest examples of Christians living after Pentecost.

St. Elijah the Tishbite

Elijah was celibate, and he spent his life serving the Lord as a prophet. He spent a number of years as an ascetic, living alone in the wilderness, drinking only water and eating whatever the ravens would bring to him:

Then the word of the Lord came to [Elijah], saying, “Get away from here and turn eastward, and hide by the Brook Cherith, which flows into the Jordan. And it will be that you shall drink from the brook, and I have commanded the ravens to feed you there.” So he went and did according to the word of the Lord, for he went and stayed by the Brook Cherith, which flows into the Jordan. The ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening; and he drank from the brook. (1 Kings 17:2-6)

According to historian Andrew Jotischkey, there were many patristic and medieval monks who considered Elijah to be a preeminent example of monastic life:

Patristic and medieval commentary celebrated Elijah as the Old Testament “type” of the hermit. Jerome discussed the respective claims of Elijah and John the Baptist to the title of “the first monk,” alongside the Egyptian desert fathers Anthony and Paul of Thebes. Rupert of Dentz, in the twelfth century, described Elijah as the “author and initiator” of monasticism. To Peter Damian, Elijah was the originator of the eremitical life. Monks themselves, like the Egyptian Onuphrius, were aware of following the example of Elijah; Peter the Venerable, looking back at the generation of Onuphrius as founders, saw Elijah as the ultimate monastic founder-figure. … Gerard of Nazareth prefaced his biographical collection of hermits by appealing to the example of Elijah.

The Nazarite Vow

A distinct aspect of Christian monasticism is its relative austerity, compared to the requirements made of other Christians. Monks and nuns are normally expected to make vows of celebacy, poverty, stability, and obedience. While other Christians are permitted to marry, to have personal possessions, to move from place to place, and to enjoy some level of independence in many decisions, monastics accept a life in which a greater level of strictness is expected in these four areas.

There is Scriptural precedent to the idea of having a special religious order, in which participants are required to meet standards not normally required of others. In the Old Testament, God provided people with the option of taking the Nazarite vow:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD: He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried. All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine tree, from the kernels even to the husk. All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow. All the days that he separateth himself unto the LORD he shall come at no dead body. He shall not make himself unclean for his father, or for his mother, for his brother, or for his sister, when they die: because the consecration of his God is upon his head. (Numbers 6:2-8)

There is nothing sinful about eating grapes, and there is nothing wrong with drinking wine or strong drink. It is not wrong for a man to have an occasional haircut. And there is nothing wrong with helping prepare a dead body for a funeral. Yet a Nazarite would willingly avoid these things, in obedience to his/her religious vows.

As part of a religious order, a faithful Nazarite accepted the additional austerity required for that way of life. So it is today with monastics.

Find more: Monasticism in Scripture

You need to read Luther in context maybe? At his time the Lord supper was given to the special group and lay ppl, and lay ppl receive a different version so he hated the inequality.

Thanks for the rest text. So it's a volunteer act to be a monk? Paul never forbid marriage.

 

[Taodeching]

You need to read Luther in context maybe? At his time the Lord supper was given to the special group and lay ppl, and lay ppl receive a different version so he hated the inequality.

A false myth

Thanks for the rest text. So it's a volunteer act to be a monk? Paul never forbid marriage.

Of course it's a volunteer act, no one forces anyone to be a Monk, Nun, or Priest. Why do you think the men and women dedicated their life to God? Because they wanted to serve God completely. People who live in the world can not completely dedicate their lives to God because of all the distractions which is what St. Paul was saying and he wished everyone could leave the world and dedicate their whole lives to God as he had done. Hence man and women have taken St. Paul's advice and left the world to focus and dedicate their lives solely to God, of course God does place a call on their lives and enables them to be able to leave the world.

 

[Paidiske]

You're assuming the entire church or most of the church members live in the desert haha

Not at all. I'm a formal associate of a monastic community in an urban setting. I know the benefit, not only to the members of that community, but to the wider church, of their ministry; but that is what prompted me to point out to you that there is such a benefit.

So does these lay ppl didn't devote to God enough than those who are isolated?

Of course not. Each of us is created, gifted and called by God to a unique life. Some are called to ordained ministry, some to monastic life, and some to other lay roles, but none is better or worse than another.

Also, there are different orders with different degrees of isolation. Many of the nuns in the order I'm connected to have been teachers, nurses and the like; that is service rather than isolation.

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

A false myth

There are protestant monastery today

 

[Taodeching]

There are protestant monastery today

Of course, never said there weren't. My Church has a monastery. That is not what I was referring to when I said "A false myth" this is what I was referring to

At his time the Lord supper was given to the special group and lay ppl, and lay ppl receive a different version so he hated the inequality.

Which is false

 

[Jesusthekingofking]

Of course, never said there weren't. My Church has a monastery. That is not what I was referring to when I said "A false myth" this is what I was referring to



Which is false

So what do you think of Luther? He got bored being a monk and wanted to raise as the 2nd pope for power sake?

 

[Aussie Pete]

There were both men and women disciples of Jesus, who accompanied him on his journeys and ministry. There are stories of what we could call "monks" and "nuns" in the Hebrew Bible. An example is Samuel, who was "dedicated to the Lord" as a child.

A New Testament example could be Paul. Was he ever married? Did he have children? In his years of travels, preaching and establishing Christian communities he also was accompanied by men and women, some married, some not. He cited them in his letters.

I had the great fortune to work, many decades back, in a Catholic hospital operated by an order of nuns. They worked long hours, day after day, dedicated to healing and serving others, caring for every one that came there, no matter what the patient's religion, skin color, ethnicity, or ability to pay. They were a wonderful example to me of what it meant to be a disciple of Jesus in following his words and example. My time there literally changed the course of my life, for which I am eternally grateful.

I'm not disputing that some monks and nuns have done and still do good works. A great deal of evil has also been done. I just don't see any biblical justification.

 

[Martinius]

I'm not disputing that some monks and nuns have done and still do good works. A great deal of evil has also been done. I just don't see any biblical justification.

I don't know of too many people who base EVERYTHING they do, every day, on "biblical justification". However, I gave you several examples from the Bible; there are many more. You seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder, for which I am sorry.

Good and evil exists everywhere, including with and by people who choose the religious life. Granted, they should be better than the rest of us, which they are, overall. My personal experience over the decades has been very positive.

 

[Martinius]

So what do you think of Luther? He got bored being a monk and wanted to raise as the 2nd pope for power sake?

"Bored"? "Second Pope"? I am curious as to from where you are getting these ideas?

 

[ChristServant]

Why become a Christian monk? Isn't it the NT teach us how to live as a community? The only argument for remain single is to serve God better but the idea of becoming a monk is not there in the Bible. What's the value of becoming a monk according to Christianity?

Sex is a bad thing?
Yes.

Peace be to all those in the body of Christ

 

[Taodeching]

So what do you think of Luther? He got bored being a monk and wanted to raise as the 2nd pope for power sake?

No, I think he had something akin to OCD and worried about things a lot. The 99 thesis he posted to the door weren't about the Eucharist or monks and he ended creating a mess with 40,000 plus denominations now and any old yahoo thinking they can be their own pope.

 

[Martinius]

Sex is a bad thing?
Yes.

I hate to burst your bubble, but none of us on this forum or anywhere else would be here without it.

God created us male and female. Sexuality is a natural, necessary, God-given aspect of life. We are partners in creation when we reproduce. Sex can be distorted and debased, but so can many other natural desires, wants and needs.