Sex and NFP usage question - adults only please

[Assisi]

In fertile times (when we had to avoid) our boundaries were the same as they were before we were married. It's simplest this way, and we know how not to make it more difficult for each other.
I'm not sure what the Church says about whether it's okay to bring the wife to climax during fertile times, but it does seem...well...unfair to do so. It doesn't seem to me to be appropriate within the context of JPII's teaching on theology of the body. I can't see how I could be lovingly giving myself to my husband in that act, so I have asked him not to.

It's a bit like the 'how far is too far' question courting couples often ask. Unfortunately there is no clear cut answer. Make sure you don't go so far as to compromise your chastity. Purity foremost an attitude of the heart.

 

[hsilgne]

I'm not sure what the Church says about whether it's okay to bring the wife to climax during fertile times, but it does seem...well...unfair to do so.

Any man who can bring his wife to climax and then cuddle and say "good night darling".... well.... kudos to you man... you should write a book and go collect your pulitzer.

 

[helenofbritain]

I'd be careful with getting too carried away during fertile times... because even if you don't cross any moral boundaries (and we're still trying to determine exactly what they *are*) biologically speaking your wife will be more desirous when she is fertile, and will most likely find it harder to discourage you and then you may find yourselves with an unexpected bundle of joy!

There's another thread, partly about NFP, partly about how-far-is-too-far which you might find interesting:
http://www.christianforums.com/t517...ow-the-churchs-teaching-on-contraception.html

Oh, and someone said something about abstinence being hard? It's not like you have to do it all the time. Go to woomb.org for information about numbers of available days per cycle when avoiding pregnancy. There are plenty. Besides, once you have a couple of kids, you may find yourselves having less sex anyway You get interrupted... you're tired... NFP is organised abstinence - children provide disorganised abstinence!!

 

[Ave Maria]

I'm going to give a simple (but probably unpopular) answer. Just abstain completely. There's no need to delve into any gray areas here...just abstain completely!

Good answer NDIrish!

 

[Markh]

I don't think this issue will ever concern me directly, but the topic certainly somehow needs to be addressed by parish priests.

I am not sure how, but it is very possible to commit mortal sin in the bedroom with your wife and so priests need to direct souls here. Additionally lay people need to have informed consciences.

 

[Assisi]

I don't think this issue will ever concern me directly, but the topic certainly somehow needs to be addressed by parish priests.

I am not sure how, but it is very possible to commit mortal sin in the bedroom with your wife and so priests need to direct souls here. Additionally lay people need to have informed consciences.

Our priest gave us recommended reading during marriage prep.

 

[helenofbritain]

I don't think this issue will ever concern me directly, but the topic certainly somehow needs to be addressed by parish priests.

I am not sure how, but it is very possible to commit mortal sin in the bedroom with your wife and so priests need to direct souls here. Additionally lay people need to have informed consciences.

Well, not to get bogged down in technicalities.... but for a sin to be mortal there are three conditions that have to be met.

1. It must be Grave Matter.
2. You must fully consent (with full understanding of the gravity of the matter) to doing it.
3. You must know it is a mortal sin.

Here's the Catechismal version:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ's kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

So, a couple could certainly be committing grave sins in the bedroom, but unless they knew it was wrong and did it anyway, they would be in mortal sin. Which is a relief. However, we are instructed by God and the Church to form our consciences, so hopefully with the right guidance we wouldn't have to plead ignorance, because we would have informed ourselves.

 

[Markh]

So there are Catholic books dealing around the intricacies of this subject?

 

[Assisi]

There sure are. I recommend 'Good News about Sex and Marriage' by Christopher West. He answers questions in a variety of subjects all based on JPII's Theology of the Body.
Our copy has been lent out for a while now, but my husband thinks he remembers this exact question being answered.

 

[Filia Mariae]

I would urge caution with Good News About Sex and Marriage. It's one of Christopher's earlier works and there are some questionable elements in it. It definately has a lot of good info, but its not perfect and even he has made statements to that effect.

 

[geocajun]

I would urge caution with Good News About Sex and Marriage. It's one of Christopher's earlier works and there are some questionable elements in it. It definately has a lot of good info, but its not perfect and even he has made statements to that effect.

I hadn't heard that before. Do you have any references?