Seventh-day Adventist Church is sola-scriptura testing - but not sola-tradition testing

[BobRyan]

I merely meant that there is a higher authority than human conscience.

I agree that God Himself is higher - but in the examples you gave (Acts 8) and I gave (Acts 17:11) and Gal 1:6-9 it is "the individual" who decides .. and in the Acts 8 and Acts 17:11 case it means deciding AGAINST the established magisterium.

The Holy Spirit then is guiding the individual as in both cases above the individual chooses based on the work of the Holy Spirit in authoring scripture that they are using as the rule to judge by.

 

[BobRyan]

You gave an example of someone choosing to worship on Tuesday and that does not line up with either SDA or Catholic teaching.

SDAs don't argue against worship every day of the week - and I don't think the RCC does either. But if you mean "a day of worship" (an entire day set aside for worship - holy to the Lord) having the weekly day of worship be Tuesday instead of the Bible Sabbath (friday/Saturday) or in the case of he Catholic church - "instead of Sunday" (Saturday evening - Sunday) - then you are right that both groups would object.

With regard to the infallible magisterium of the Jews you reference. Even Jesus recognized their institution. He said they sit in Moses’ seat

Indeed - so when He slam-hammers their supposedly infallible tradition in Mark 7:6-13 for all his followers to observe "and do likewise" - it is significant. It is their teaching that he is condemning in Mark 7.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

SDAs don't argue against worship every day of the week - and I don't think the RCC does either. But if you mean "a day of worship" (an entire day set aside for worship - holy to the Lord) having the weekly day of worship be Tuesday instead of the Bible Sabbath (friday/Saturday) or in the case of he Catholic church - "instead of Sunday" (Saturday evening - Sunday) - then you are right that both groups would object.



Indeed - so when He slam-hammers their supposedly infallible tradition in Mark 7:6-13 for all his followers to observe "and do likewise" - it is significant. It is their teaching that he is condemning in Mark 7.

You make an interesting point. If the Pharisees and Sadducees were the infallible magisterium, then it would be valid, but it is not. The infallible magisterium of the Old Covenant consisted in the Law and the Prophets, not in the Sanhedrin, the Pharisees or Sadducees. Had the Jewish leaders been faithful to the magisterium, they would not have erred in their tradition, but since they were as yet unredeemed humans, they did err, but the teaching authority and magisterium of the Jewish people did not. It was the written word of God.
In a similar way, the magisterium of the Catholic church consists in the written Catechism, which is her teaching authority. There is nothing in the Catechism which is contrary to the word of God, and we have the promise of the Holy Spirit to keep it that way. The Pope is infallible in that he will never be permitted to alter the Catechism in such a way as to contradict the word of God. He may say and do things which are in error, but it will never be written or declared as church teaching. There is a difference between infallibility and impeccability. Infallibility has to do with inability to teach error. Impeccability has to do with inability to sin. There was only on impeccable man that was unable to sin by His own nature, the man Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the only one worthy of worship. The Pope is His representative, not His replacement. Catholics do not worship the Pope. The Pope is not impeccable.

 

[BobRyan]

You make an interesting point. If the Pharisees and Sadducees were the infallible magisterium,

That was in fact their claim.

And the Bible claims they were the head of the one-true-nation Church started by God at Sinai.

Jesus hammers their supposedly "infallible" tradition "sola scriptura" in Mark 7.

The infallible magisterium of the Old Covenant consisted in the Law and the Prophets,

The "Law and the prophets" are scripture.

In both NT and OT - that is THE infallible authority.

In Mark 7 Jesus does not say "I am God just believe whatever I tell you to think". Rather He uses the sola scriptura method to prove them wrong - a method that his followers also used.

In Luke 24 on the road to Emaus - Jesus does not say "I am Jesus just believe whatever I tell you" - rather He teaches them from the Law and the prophets "Beginning with Moses" BEFORE He allows them to know WHO He is! - He gives them the method of "proof" that will be used to evangelize and to test all doctrine.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

That was in fact their claim.

And the Bible claims they were the head of the one-true-nation Church started by God at Sinai.

Jesus hammers their supposedly "infallible" tradition "sola scriptura" in Mark 7.



The "Law and the prophets" are scripture.

In both NT and OT - that is THE infallible authority.

In Mark 7 Jesus does not say "I am God just believe whatever I tell you to think". Rather He uses the sola scriptura method to prove them wrong - a method that his followers also used.

In Luke 24 on the road to Emaus - Jesus does not say "I am Jesus just believe whatever I tell you" - rather He teaches them from the Law and the prophets "Beginning with Moses" BEFORE He allows them to know WHO He is! - He gives them the method of "proof" that will be used to evangelize and to test all doctrine.

The problem is that you do not have Christ by your side interpreting the Scriptures for you. When you use sola scriptura, you discard all church history that came before you and label it tradition, but you fail to note that what you label as tradition is rooted in scripture and has stood the test of time.
When you discard that, you are not elevating scripture above tradition, but are elevating your own intellect and conscience as the sole arbiter of truth.
Mankind is a hierarchal being, obedience and humility are the most difficult virtues to master. We all want to be the one that is right, but we do not possess all knowledge, we see through a glass darkly. If we lack humility, then we ask God, and He will answer. He will teach us humility, whether He will reveal truths to us depends on our willingness to accept them.

You are in my prayers, Bob

 

[AdamjEdgar]

The problem is that you do not have Christ by your side interpreting the Scriptures for you. When you use sola scriptura, you discard all church history that came before you and label it tradition, but you fail to note that what you label as tradition is rooted in scripture and has stood the test of time.
When you discard that, you are not elevating scripture above tradition, but are elevating your own intellect and conscience as the sole arbiter of truth.
Mankind is a hierarchal being, obedience and humility are the most difficult virtues to master. We all want to be the one that is right, but we do not possess all knowledge, we see through a glass darkly. If we lack humility, then we ask God, and He will answer. He will teach us humility, whether He will reveal truths to us depends on our willingness to accept them.

You are in my prayers, Bob

ooohhhh...there is a big problem with that view. It is a major concern when we rely on so called talents of others for our understanding of scripture and doctrine. The Bereans "searched the scriptures daily" to see if what the apostles were preaching to them was truth. They did not rely on the words of the apostles for truth!
I consider anyone who simply follows church history and statements of hierarchy under the guise of "only the educated know" as an individual roped in by a cult. They are being brainwashed. (extreme example i know but my point still stands)

The Holy spirit was promised to individuals, not to an institution. He speaks to us as a still small voice, why then do we need "millenia of tradition that has stood the test of time" to act on his behalf?

 

[BobRyan]

The problem is that you do not have Christ by your side interpreting the Scriptures for you.

The Bible says I do have that very thing.

John 16
13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;

And in Acts 17:11 Jews went against their own god-ordained magisterium to accept Paul "studying the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul -- were SO"

In Acts 8 - the Ethiopian goes against is own god-ordained nation-church magisterium to accept what a total stranger - Philip, said.

I do not discard that Bible teaching, so that church history I just pointed to "is not to be ignored" by Christians in my POV.