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Seventh-day Adventism -The New Iserael???

Adventist Dissident

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This evening I was talking with Cantor Micheal Weisser, of the south street Synaguoge in Lincoln, Nebraska. Cantor Weisser has appeared on Oprah and Donahue. He is famous for his handeling of the Neo-Nazi/KKK Harassment that he recieve in the 80's and 90's.

I asked wiseer to give me the Jewish prespective on the change of the sabbath to sunday. I will post that later. As we were talking he made a statment about SDAism that I had never exactly heard stated like that before. He says weather SDA's say it or not, they see themselves as "The New Iserael" the Choosen.

I have never heard said like that exactly but now that I come to think of it yah, we do. so what are we to do with it
 

Sophia7

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That's true. Many Adventists do view themselves as the new Israel or spiritual Israel. It plays into the traditional Adventist views of the Law and the Sabbath and the SDA Church as the remnant. I don't agree with replacement theology. I think that Galatians 3 makes it clear that we as Christians are the descendants of Abraham through faith, not spiritual Jews:
6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.
8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO PERFORM THEM."
11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--
14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man's covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.
20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one.
21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise. (NASB)
 
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StormyOne

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just because that is the view doesn't make it true.... replacement theology as well as remnant theology while being incorrect also gives members a false sense of status.... i.e. we have the truth and you don't or you must become one of us if you want to be saved....

Lastly, most sda's don't want to deal with Romans 11 which starts with this:

Rom 11:1-2 So I ask, "Has God rejected his people Israel?" That's unthinkable! Consider this. I'm an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham from the tribe of Benjamin. (2) God has not rejected his people whom he knew long ago. Don't you know what Elijah says in the Scripture passage when he complains to God about Israel? He says.....

The whole chapter deals with the concept, yet you probably are not going to hear many sermons preached on Romans 11.....
 
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Sophia7

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just because that is the view doesn't make it true.... replacement theology as well as remnant theology while being incorrect also gives members a false sense of status.... i.e. we have the truth and you don't or you must become one of us if you want to be saved....

Lastly, most sda's don't want to deal with Romans 11 which starts with this:

Rom 11:1-2 So I ask, "Has God rejected his people Israel?" That's unthinkable! Consider this. I'm an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham from the tribe of Benjamin. (2) God has not rejected his people whom he knew long ago. Don't you know what Elijah says in the Scripture passage when he complains to God about Israel? He says.....

The whole chapter deals with the concept, yet you probably are not going to hear many sermons preached on Romans 11.....

I was saying that it's true that that's the way many Adventists think, not that I agree with them. Just wanted to clarify in case my words were unclear.
 
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Xenon

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I heard a sermon several weeks back on these verses that I think explains it perfectly.

Galatians 3:5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
 
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StormyOne

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I was saying that it's true that that's the way many Adventists think, not that I agree with them. Just wanted to clarify in case my words were unclear.
Yes I understood what you were saying, my comments were an addition to the thought you started... sorry I did not convey that.....
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Ellen White herself promulgates this view of SDAs as the new "Israel" or the new chosen of God. In reality the Bible does indicate something of that nature for Christians in the new testament, that believers in Christ bes now the "Israel" of God, but that does not mean God must forsake the original Jews to get there. The door bes faith now, not heritage; rebirth, not birth. But the SDAs also have this peculiar subcultural milieu and subtext of not really accepting those who have not grown up SDA, as if you don't have the right stuff if you bes not raised the SDA way with academies and vegefoods and whatnot. Ridiculous really to traverse land and sea to make converts you have no intention of accepting anyway, only to have your unfriendliness and rejection drive them out of your ranks 2-3 years later. Then the nerve to tag them as apostates when you messed them up to begin with.... :mad:

Tried searching that database for some record of where EGW writes about this but the search does not work that well. It returns too many results of one word only even where you put in "&" or "AND" to make it search more than one for better hits. So it cannot locate this but it remembers distinctly that she wrote in several places about the SDAs being the new or "modern" Israel and in some cases even gave "warnings" about it like if they did not shape up they would repeat the history of Isreal in rejecting Christ
 
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Sophia7

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But the SDAs also have this peculiar subcultural milieu and subtext of not really accepting those who have not grown up SDA, as if you don't have the right stuff if you bes not raised the SDA way with academies and vegefoods and whatnot. Ridiculous really to traverse land and sea to make converts you have no intention of accepting anyway, only to have your unfriendliness and rejection drive them out of your ranks 2-3 years later. Then the nerve to tag them as apostates when you messed them up to begin with.... :mad:

I know what you mean. I grew up Adventist but in pretty much a cultural Adventist environment. I went to public school most of the time until college, my family wasn't big on Ellen White, we ate meat, my parents didn't care if we wore jewelry or went to movies, etc. So I experienced kind of a culture shock when I left home and went to an Adventist college. Some things just seemed so weird to me, like engagement watches.

I would have been looked down on in some ways by my more conservative Adventist friends if I hadn't changed certain things to conform to that culture. I guess I would call what I experienced Adventist peer pressure. And I wasn't as knowledgeable about SDA history and EGW's writings as some of my friends at that point in my life. I did feel that some of them didn't think of me as quite as much of a real Adventist as they were.
 
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Adventist Dissident

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i remember reading in my review of SDA history that there was a discussion on the 2300 days and what had taken place there. The SDA's were saying that we are under a "new" dispensation and that the old is not valid anymore. I was struck with this, because SDA's are anti-dispensationalist. Yet there own teaching is based on this. hum?
 
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Sophia7

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i remember reading in my review of SDA history that there was a discussion on the 2300 days and what had taken place there. The SDA's were saying that we are under a "new" dispensation and that the old is not valid anymore. I was struck with this, because SDA's are anti-dispensationalist. Yet there own teaching is based on this. hum?

I don't think that most Adventists would use the term dispensation in the same way that a lot of other Christians would because they tie it in with the ten commandments and the Adventist sanctuary message. Here is what EGW wrote in an article entitled "The Two Dispensations":
God's truth is the same in all ages, although differently developed to meet the wants of his people in various periods. Under the Old Testament dispensation, every important work was closely connected with the sanctuary. In the holy of holies the great I AM took up his abode, and no human being was permitted to enter there except by divine appointment. There, above the mercy-seat, overshadowed by the wings of the cherubim, dwelt the shekinah of his glory, the perpetual token of his presence; while the breastplate of the high priest, set with precious stones, made known from the sacred precincts of the sanctuary the solemn message of Jehovah to the people. Wonderful dispensation, when the Holy One, the creator of the heavens and the earth, thus manifested his glory, and revealed his will to the children of men! {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 1}

The typical sacrifices and offerings of that dispensation represented Christ, who was to become the perfect offering for sinful man. Besides these mystic symbols and shadowy types pointing to a Saviour to come, there was a present Saviour to the Israelites. He it was, who, enshrouded in a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night, led them in their travels; and he it was who gave direct words to Moses to be repeated to the people. Those who sneer at the old dispensation, and professedly accept Christ in the new, do not discern that this same Christ was the ancient leader of Israel, and that from his lips came all the commands, all the rules and regulations, to govern more than a million of people. He who was equal with the Father in the creation of man was commander, lawgiver, and guide to his ancient people. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 2}

The Christ typified in the former dispensation is the Christ revealed in the gospel dispensation. The clouds that then enshrouded his divine form have been rolled back; the mists and shadows have disappeared; and he stands revealed, not as the Jewish nation expected, as a powerful king who would conquer their enemies and achieve for them glorious victories, but as a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief. His divinity is now hid, not under a cloud, but under the garb of humanity. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 3}

As time has rolled on from creation and the cross of Calvary, as prophecy has been and is still fulfilling, light and knowledge have greatly increased. But it does not become believers in God or the Bible to pour contempt on the age that has led step by step to the present. In the life and death of Christ, a light flashes back upon the past, giving significance to the whole Jewish economy, and making of the old and the new dispensations a complete whole. Nothing that God has ordained in the plan of redemption can be dispensed with. It is the working out of the divine will in the salvation of man. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 4}

The sacrificial offerings were established by infinite wisdom to impress upon the fallen race the solemn truth that it was sin which caused death. Every time the life of a sacrificial offering was taken, they were reminded that if there had been no sin, there would have been no death. "The wages of sin is death." {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 5}

The word of God covers a period of history reaching from the creation to the coming of the Son of man in the clouds of heaven. Yea, more; it carries the mind forward to the future life, and opens before it the glories of paradise restored. Through all these centuries the truth of God has remained the same. That which was truth in the beginning is truth now. Although new and important truths appropriate for succeeding generations have been opened to the understanding, the present revealings do not contradict those of the past. Every new truth understood only makes more significant the old. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 6}

With the broader, clearer light that shines upon us, we can see with greater distinctness the glory of the former dispensation. We can hold converse with the patriarchs of old; we can listen to Moses as he legislates for Israel, to the prophets as they look down through future ages and foretell coming events, and to the apostles as they lay open the mysteries of the new dispensation, and relate their personal experience and the wonderful words of Him that spake as never man spake. As we see the prediction of the prophets fulfilling around us, we are brought nearer to them, and we read them with a deeper and more intelligent interest. And as time rolls on and we near the close of earth's history, we shall, if humble learners in the school of Christ, be able to comprehend still more clearly divine wisdom. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 7}

Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and all the patriarchs and prophets, heard the gospel through Christ; they saw the salvation of the race through the substitute and surety, Jesus, the world's Redeemer. They saw a Saviour to come to the world in human flesh, and communed with him in his divine majesty. Abraham walked and talked with the heavenly angels who came to him in the garb of humanity. Jacob talked with Christ and angels. Moses held converse with Jesus face to face as one who speaketh with a friend. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 8}

From the creation and fall of man to the present time, there has been a continual unfolding of the plan of God for the redemption, through Christ, of the fallen race. The tabernacle and temple of God on earth were patterned after the original in heaven. Around the sanctuary and its solemn services mystically gathered the grand truths which were to be developed through succeeding generations. There has been no time when God has granted greater evidences of his grandeur and exalted majesty, than while he was the acknowledged governor of Israel. The manifestations of an invisible King were grand and unspeakably awful. A scepter was swayed, but it was held by no human hand. The sacred ark, covered by the mercy-seat, and containing the holy law of God, was symbolical of Jehovah himself. It was the power of the Israelites to conquer in battle. Before it idols were thrown down, and for rashly looking into it thousands perished. Never in our world has the Lord given such open manifestations of his supremacy as when he alone was the acknowledged king of Israel. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 9}

How wise was the arrangement of God to preserve a knowledge of himself in the earth by giving man his holy law, which was the foundation of his government in heaven and in earth, and by connecting with it a system of worship that would be a continual reminder of a coming Saviour. While darkness covered the earth, and gross darkness the people, the Lord had a humble few who acknowledged his sovereignty by respecting and obeying the constitution of his kingdom, the ten commandments. Through the ages of idolatry and apostasy, the promise of a Messiah kept the star of hope shining in the darkened moral heavens until the time came for Christ to make his first advent. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 10}

In the sacrificial offering on every altar was seen a Redeemer. With the cloud of incense arose from every contrite heart the prayer that God would accept their offerings as showing faith in the coming Saviour. Our Saviour has come and shed his blood as a sacrifice, and now he pleads that blood before his Father in the sanctuary in heaven. It is now, as anciently, only through the merits of that blood that the transgressor of God's law can find pardon. It is by exercising repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. {RH, March 2, 1886 par. 11}

While we rejoice today that our Saviour has come, that the sacrifices of the former dispensation have given place to the perfect offering for sin, we are not excusable in showing contempt for that period. Those who make slurring remarks concerning the old Jewish age, show that they are ignorant of the Scriptures, and of the power of God. Amid the moral darkness of the idolatrous nations of that time are seen burning traces of the great I AM. His goings forth stand registered in the pages of Bible history. What is now needed is divine enlightenment, and a more intelligent knowledge of the wonderful dealings of God with his people anciently. The psalmist exclaims, "Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God."
Basel, Switzerland.
-
{RH, March 2, 1886 par. 12}
 
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BGMCFAR

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I know what you mean. I grew up Adventist but in pretty much a cultural Adventist environment. I went to public school most of the time until college, my family wasn't big on Ellen White, we ate meat, my parents didn't care if we wore jewelry or went to movies, etc. So I experienced kind of a culture shock when I left home and went to an Adventist college. Some things just seemed so weird to me, like engagement watches.

I would have been looked down on in some ways by my more conservative Adventist friends if I hadn't changed certain things to conform to that culture. I guess I would call what I experienced Adventist peer pressure. And I wasn't as knowledgeable about SDA history and EGW's writings as some of my friends at that point in my life. I did feel that some of them didn't think of me as quite as much of a real Adventist as they were.
Sophia I grerw up much the way you did so I understand what you are saying I have always felt like and outsider even tho I was raised in the church I have always felt there was a bunch elitists inthe SDA's they think they are the chosen church the people of God the new Israel and I lived my teen years in College Place Wa.
 
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Adventist Dissident

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Sophia7,

I think you misunderstand me, Yes it is true that the term "dispensation" is understood by SDA today differently then the mainstream usage, but back when doctrines were being decided they were using the term in the same way that mainstream Christianity uses it today.
 
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Sophia7

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Sophia7,

I think you misunderstand me, Yes it is true that the term "dispensation" is understood by SDA today differently then the mainstream usage, but back when doctrines were being decided they were using the term in the same way that mainstream Christianity uses it today.

That's interesting. Do you have some quotes?
 
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