Seven Reasons Why Ezekiel 38 has not been fulfilled

rockytopva

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After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. - Ezekiel 38:8

1. This will happen in the latter years
2. In Israel, a land that was brought back from the sword in 1948
3. This will happen in the latter years, not the last days, so it must occur before the rapture.

Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. - Ezekiel 38:8 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, - Ezekiel 38:11 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. - Ezekiel 38:5-6

4. An overpopulated world will come against Israel as a storm from the North, South, and East.

And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: - Ezekiel 39:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. - Ezekiel 39:11-12

5. It will take seven months to bury the dead
6. The valley of Hamongog (Hamon-gog = "multitude of Gog") is where they will put the vast majority of the bodies.
7. These events have not yet transpired. It is an unfulfilled prophecy that will bring the black horseman to a stop...

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Rev20

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After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. - Ezekiel 38:8

When was Israel brought back from the sword? Under the Persians and the decree of Cyrus.

1. This will happen in the latter years

It also says that prophecy would be fulfilled in the "latter days" (Eze 38:16.) According to Daniel, the "latter days" occurred during the terror of Antiochus IV, about 170 B.C. That makes sense when you consider the "last days" occurred during the generation of Jesus Christ. This is Paul speaking about the ministry of Christ occurring in last days, followed by Peter speaking about the day of Pentecost being the last days:

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" -- Heb 1:1-2

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" -- Acts 2:16-18

The generation of Christ was also considered the "end of the world," or, the "end of the age:"

"For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." -- Heb 9:26

"for then he would have had to suffer again and again since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to remove sin by the sacrifice of himself." -- Heb 9:26 NRSV

So, when his disciples inquired about the "end of the age," while they were on the mount of Olives, Jesus said the "end" would come when the gospel was preached to all the world and to every creature; and would be accomplished within the generation of the disciples. In the book of the Colossians Paul wrote that the gospel had already been preached to all the world, and to every creature.

Therefore, the prophecy of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel was fulfilled prior to the arrival and ministry of Christ, and most likely in the 2nd century B.C., with Antiochus IV as the fulfillment.
.

2. In Israel, a land that was brought back from the sword in 1948

Meaningless. There is not a whisper about that in the New Testament, so it was not God that created that nation that calls itself "Israel." Rather, it was created by a group of wealthy, influential communists.
.

3. This will happen in the latter years, not the last days, so it must occur before the rapture.

Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. - Ezekiel 38:8 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, - Ezekiel 38:11 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. - Ezekiel 38:5-6

You left out the most important clue. As aforementioned, it was fulfilled in latter years (Eze 38:8,) which was ALSO the latter days (Eze 38:16.) According to the prophet Daniel, the latter days were in the general time frame of the 2nd century B.C., in the days of Antiochus IV.
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4. An overpopulated world will come against Israel as a storm from the North, South, and East.

And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: - Ezekiel 39:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. - Ezekiel 39:11-12

You spiritualized those passages. Earlier, in chapter 27, Ezekiel explained that those nations were trading partners, along with Israel and Judah, with the port city of Tyre, located northwest of Galilee, which means those nations were all within trading distance of Israel. Ezekiel 38 and 39 says absolutely NOTHING about the armies coming from anywhere but the general vicinity of Israel.
.

5. It will take seven months to bury the dead

But first the birds eat their flesh:

"Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured." -- Eze 39:4 KJV

That was common practice in ancient battles to leave the bodies where they were killed for the buzzards, eagles and wild animals to pick clean. The same thing happened with the bodies of those killed during the Jewish-Roman War of the first century.

If you believe it takes seven months to bury the dead, then why do you NOT believe that those were ancient armies riding on horses and chariots, and using ancient wooden weapons, as the scripture states?
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6. The valley of Hamongog (Hamon-gog = "multitude of Gog") is where they will put the vast majority of the bodies.

You treat that as literal, but you have spirituzalized other parts? Please explain which parts are literal and which parts are figurative, so we can keep up.
.

7. These events have not yet transpired. It is an unfulfilled prophecy that will bring the black horseman to a stop...

That appears to be another spiritualization of the scriptures, since there is no mention whatsoever in Ezekiel 38 & 39 of black horsemen.

:)
 
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Biblewriter

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When was Israel brought back from the sword? Under the Persians and the decree of Cyrus.



It also says that prophecy would be fulfilled in the "latter days" (Eze 38:16.) According to Daniel, the "latter days" occurred during the terror of Antiochus IV, about 170 B.C. That makes sense when you consider the "last days" occurred during the generation of Jesus Christ. This is Paul speaking about the ministry of Christ occurring in last days, followed by Peter speaking about the day of Pentecost being the last days:
"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" -- Heb 1:1-2
"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:" -- Acts 2:16-18
The generation of Christ was also considered the "end of the world," or, the "end of the age:"
"For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." -- Heb 9:26
"for then he would have had to suffer again and again since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to remove sin by the sacrifice of himself." -- Heb 9:26 NRSV
So, when his disciples inquired about the "end of the age," while they were on the mount of Olives, Jesus said the "end" would come when the gospel was preached to all the world and to every creature; and would be accomplished within the generation of the disciples. In the book of the Colossians Paul wrote that the gospel had already been preached to all the world, and to every creature.

All of this is pure interpretation and completely unprovable.

Therefore, the prophecy of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel was fulfilled prior to the arrival and ministry of Christ, and most likely in the 2nd century B.C., with Antiochus IV as the fulfillment.

We have already been over this in another thread. Antiochus did not even come close to fulfilling this.


You spiritualized those passages. Earlier, in chapter 27, Ezekiel explained that those nations were trading partners, along with Israel and Judah, with the port city of Tyre, located northwest of Galilee, which means those nations were all within trading distance of Israel. Ezekiel 38 and 39 says absolutely NOTHING about the armies coming from anywhere but the general vicinity of Israel.

Ezekiel 27 is not about the reading partners of Israel, but about the trading partners of Tyre, a seafaring nation. All of the nations mentioned here are accessable from ships sailing in the Mediterranean and Black seas, the seas commonly traversed by the sailing ships of the ancient Middle East. But most of these nations were exceedingly far from Israel in terms of traven by foot or by camel, as was common in Israel.

And even Ezekiel 27 does not mention Magog, the land from which Gog comes. That was in the very far north, even beyond the reach of the vessels from Tyre.


If you believe it takes seven months to bury the dead, then why do you NOT believe that those were ancient armies riding on horses and chariots, and using ancient wooden weapons, as the scripture states?
.



You treat that as literal, but you have spirituzalized other parts? Please explain which parts are literal and which parts are figurative, so we can keep up.

Actually, since we had discussed this earlier, I looked up the actual Hebrew words used here, and while they were used of ancient weapons, at least most of them were general terms that could also be used to describe modern ones as well.
 
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Rev20

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All of this is pure interpretation and completely unprovable.
We have already been over this in another thread. Antiochus did not even come close to fulfilling this.

You have proved nothing, Biblewriter.
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Ezekiel 27 is not about the reading partners of Israel, but about the trading partners of Tyre, a seafaring nation.

That is what I wrote, Biblewriter.

"Earlier, in chapter 27, Ezekiel explained that those nations were trading partners, along with Israel and Judah, with the port city of Tyre, located northwest of Galilee, which means those nations were all within trading distance of Israel. Ezekiel 38 and 39 says absolutely NOTHING about the armies coming from anywhere but the general vicinity of Israel." -- Me

It is a fact that all those nations, along with Judah and Israel, were trading partners with Tyre.

All of the nations mentioned here are accessable from ships sailing in the Mediterranean and Black seas, the seas commonly traversed by the sailing ships of the ancient Middle East. But most of these nations were exceedingly far from Israel in terms of traven by foot or by camel, as was common in Israel.

There is absolutely no proof, whatsoever, to substantiate that claim.
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And even Ezekiel 27 does not mention Magog, the land from which Gog comes. That was in the very far north, even beyond the reach of the vessels from Tyre.

There is absolutely no proof of that, either. That is another myth based on heresay and conjecture. Even these Zionist Jews dispute that myth:

"The last member of this coalition is Togarmah, whose identification is also widely acknowledged as well as the geographical location, that in Yehezqel's times was in the Eastern Anatolia, around Mount Ararat, the historic Armenia. There is a remarkable detail regarding this land: the Prophet states clearly that Togarmah is coincident with "the far north", and this excludes any land beyond Armenia towards north. Scriptural terminology must not be forced into a presentday map, and expressions must not be taken isolate out of the context. To Yehezqel [Ezekiel] the "farthest north" was Asia Minor, and to extend the Prophet's frame of reference any further, without exegetical warrant, is not correct. " [Imninalu, The Real Identity of Gog and Magog, "Imninalu's Book of Origins - History of Israel." imninalu.net, , Eze 38:2]

Even as late as the days of Christ, the "entire world" was the Roman Empire, and their lands barely ventured above Asia Minor in the east, with general consensus that they extended no further north than the Caucasus Mountain Range, which stretches from the Black Sea to the Caspian Sea, just to the northeast of the peninsula of Asia Minor.

One of the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 38 was Persia. The ancient trade route from Persia to Tyre was over land through Damascus.
.

Actually, since we had discussed this earlier, I looked up the actual Hebrew words used here, and while they were used of ancient weapons, at least most of them were general terms that could also be used to describe modern ones as well.

What about the Hebrew word for wood?

No matter how you present it, Biblewriter, many verses must be spiritualized before you can change that prophecy from an ancient fulfillment to a future one.

:)
 
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We only need one reason.........Gog Magog is after the 1000 years.
Rev 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
 
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rockytopva

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We only need one reason.........Gog Magog is after the 1000 years.
Rev 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Two different prophecies

Ezekiel 38:16
And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Latter days...Not last days... And Israel is the nation brought forth from out of the nations, and is gathered out of many people.
 
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Two different prophecies

Ezekiel 38:16
And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ezekiel 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Latter days...Not last days... And Israel is the nation brought forth from out of the nations, and is gathered out of many people.


Eze 38
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,


Do these look like unwalled villages without bars or gates?

Sorry but latter days and last days can mean the same thing. I visited the old man in his latter days can be the same as I visited the old man in his last days.
 
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parousia70

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I cannot believe that the way of the Anti-Christ be fully made with ISIS terrorizing half the known world. The Anti-Christ arises from the power vacuum left after the prophecies of Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Antichrist is not some yet unnamed 21st century despotic tyrant. Rather, according to the direct scriptural teaching on the subject, Antichrist was a first century spirit of heresy that affected many in the Church, Signifying to John and his contemporaries that the final hour of the last days had come upon them:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

That's it. That is the ENTIRE teaching on antichrist found in scripture.
Notice it professes a THEN PRESENT REALITY, and contains not one word about a future world ruler tyrant dude.
 
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Antichrist is not some yet unnamed 21st century despotic tyrant. Rather, according to the direct scriptural teaching on the subject, Antichrist was a first century spirit of heresy that affected many in the Church, Signifying to John and his contemporaries that the final hour of the last days had come upon them:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

That's it. That is the ENTIRE teaching on antichrist found in scripture.
Notice it professes a THEN PRESENT REALITY, and contains not one word about a future world ruler tyrant dude.

I agree with you on this point, p70. Many a scholar go over-board with the antichrist, which is really nothing more than the spirit that is possessed by (all) unbelievers. Here's a little snip from page 48 in my new book.

"It’s always better to stay with the known facts in God’s
word. I say this because many scholars assume that the antichrist
is also the beast in Revelation. John was the only disciple
to use the term antichrist. Years later, he also wrote the book
of Revelation, yet he never mentions the name antichrist anywhere
in Revelation. There’s still a great possibility that the
beast won’t even be a man, but instead, it may be a kingdom,
an empire or even a world government. It’s also very possible
that the term antichrist that John mentioned may have already
been fulfilled in the first century. Especially when you consider
that the Romans were not only responsible for the destruction of
the temple, but they also crucified Christ, and martyred
almost all of His disciples as well. Could this be what
John meant when he said that antichrist would come?

Satan tempted Christ in the desert, but Christ rejected him. Later
Satan thought he would destroy Christ and His church. So He
had Him killed and later most of His disciples as well. John
escaped, but was later imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos, where
he wrote the book of Revelation, in which there was no more
mention of antichrist. We may never know the answer to this,
but I see no reason to assume that antichrist is a single man
that will come in the future and/or the beast in Revelation. The
man of sin/son of perdition will come, but let’s not assume that
this is what John meant by antichrist."


There's not really much to this, but that's how I put this myth to rest.



Cheers
 
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parousia70

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I agree with you on this point, p70.

Has Hades just frozen over....? lol

"It’s always better to stay with the known facts in God’s
word. I say this because many scholars assume that the antichrist
is also the beast in Revelation. John was the only disciple
to use the term antichrist. Years later, he also wrote the book
of Revelation, yet he never mentions the name antichrist anywhere
in Revelation. There’s still a great possibility that the
beast won’t even be a man, but instead, it may be a kingdom,
an empire or even a world government. It’s also very possible
that the term antichrist that John mentioned may have already
been fulfilled in the first century. Especially when you consider
that the Romans were not only responsible for the destruction of
the temple, but they also crucified Christ, and martyred
almost all of His disciples as well. Could this be what
John meant when he said that antichrist would come?

Satan tempted Christ in the desert, but Christ rejected him. Later
Satan thought he would destroy Christ and His church. So He
had Him killed and later most of His disciples as well. John
escaped, but was later imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos, where
he wrote the book of Revelation, in which there was no more
mention of antichrist. We may never know the answer to this,
but I see no reason to assume that antichrist is a single man
that will come in the future and/or the beast in Revelation. The
man of sin/son of perdition will come, but let’s not assume that
this is what John meant by antichrist."


There's not really much to this, but that's how I put this myth to rest.

Cheers

Good to see/hear this.
Believing in this biblical reality doesn't threaten futurism at all, yet most futurists seem to get pretty darn defensive when the reality is presented to them.

I would also submit that there is no scripture that teaches Pauls Man of Sin and Johns Beast are the same individual.

Such unification is purely man made tradition.

Is your book on Amazon?
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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ebedmelech

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To understand Ezekiel 38 you need Revelation 20:7-9.

It's a literal battle, however John enlightens us that Gog and Magog are the unbelieving world.

The problem comes with thinking this is a literal battle when the teaching of the NT tells us "WE DO NOT WAR ACCORDING TO THE FLESH"...so the battle is spiritual!

We are at war with GOG and MAGOG right now!!! The battle ends with the judgment of Christ!
 
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I cannot believe that the way of the Anti-Christ be fully made with ISIS terrorizing half the known world. The Anti-Christ arises from the power vacuum left after the prophecies of Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Listen, Ezekiel 38 and 39 happens just like the Bible says.....after the 1000 years. It will be a literal war with God bringing fire down from heaven. The Antichrist is the beast that will come out of the pit. The power vacuum will occur when the pre tribulation rapture occurs and the church is gone. "Oh the aliens have come just like we have been saying", the world will preach. Do you think all this alien abduction stuff and people disappearing in the movies is for entertainment? The world is prepared for the pre trib rapture and will believe the aliens have come. Has to be aliens they will say.....look at all the preachers that are still here...and the Pope is still here.
 
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There's not really much to this, but that's how I put this myth to rest.



Cheers

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Myth.........wrong tree.
 
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The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Myth.........wrong tree.

Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.
 
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rockytopva

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According to Revelation 5... The seven seals seal the Lambs book of life. The book of life is populated throughout seven church ages....

Ephesus - Apostolic - Paul tells of all of Asia as having forsaken him
Smyrna - Early Orthodox -Foxes lists the persecutions as ten
Pergamos - Orthodox - Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Methodist-Pentecostal- To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea -Pentecostal-Charismatic-Independent Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?


During this time there will be four horseman... As four is the number of the earth so these are earthly regimes...

1. White horse - Democracy
2. Red horse - Communism
3. Black horse - Islam
4. Pale horse - Anti-Christ
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1. The Seven Candlesticks - Seven church ages
2. Seven Stars - The saved Christians within the seven churches... All in the right hand of Christ Jesus
3. The Seven Seals - Sealing the Lambs Book of Life


The similarities between the first and last ages...
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The black horseman regime is the ISIS, which must rise and attempt to destroy Israel according to Ezekiel 38. This will leave a power vacuum for the Anti-Christ to move in.
 
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Rev20

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According to Revelation 5... The seven seals seal the Lambs book of life. The book of life is populated throughout seven church ages....

Ephesus - Apostolic - Paul tells of all of Asia as having forsaken him
Smyrna - Early Orthodox -Foxes lists the persecutions as ten
Pergamos - Orthodox - Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholic - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestant - A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Methodist-Pentecostal- To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea -Pentecostal-Charismatic-Independent Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

There is not a word in the scripture that even hints that the seven churches in Asia are anything other than seven churches in Asia. In fact, the scripture reads that those were the only churches in Asia at the time John wrote the book, and that interpretation can be derived without adding a word to the scripture, nor taking away a word.

:)
 
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