Setting Aside All Divisions For The Glory of Christ

Mr. M

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In 1991, when I had just moved to Aurora, Colorado, I was listening to a Christian AM radio
station one afternoon. Two "theologians?" were debating pre-millennial v. post millennial
doctrine. I had no background in eschatology, other than the "apostles creed" we were taught
in school. "He will come again to judge the quick and the dead". What intrigued me was that both sides had their own pet scriptures to support their position. They were both very courteous for the most part, but never challenged one other's interpretation of the scriptures they quoted, just stuck to their own preferences. I was stunned that this could even exist in Christianity, that there would be such divisions. I prayed awhile about what I had witnessed and heard from the Lord very clearly that night. He said "this is not the spirit of truth, but the spirit of wanting to be right". I knew what He meant immediately, but also grew in understanding. I purposed in my heart that I would not even bother with this or other divisive issues that are inessential to our serving the Lord and each other.
Soon after, the Lord gave me this scripture: Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, to that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind. I had even avoided reading Revelation for years, and when I did, the first thing I noted was that the blessing was to listen and keep the message in our heart Revelation 1:3. Reminded me of Mary, and how the scriptures said that she did not fully comprehend what she was being told, but would ponder them in their heart. What is more alarming is that at the end of the testimony, we are told that a curse would be upon anything added or removed from that Word. Oh, the danger of interpreting the book of Revelation! Not much later, I was at the Buckingham Mall in Aurora where they had a nice Christian bookstore, and I bought my wife an NIV study Bible, since she did not like the King James, which I preferred. I was sitting at a bus stop to go home and flipping through while a waited, and in the middle of the book of Revelation there was a lengthy and complicated (for me, at least) table, which broke down portions of the testimony, while providing the pre, post, and amil interpretations. At that moment I heard the Lord's voice as clear as the day: "seems they have added a few things to that book!" I knew it was the Lord because I was alone on the bench, and a strange terror came over me. At that instant I understood "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." I decided that my wife was never going to read Revelation (which she did not) and gave it to her anyway. So when I came on this forum about 18 months ago, I started noting the many ways that the body of Christ was divided. Calvinism, which I had no previous knowledge, Universalism was also totally unfamiliar to me. I have mostly avoided these forums and topics, and lately I only post in Spiritual Growth>Deeper Fellowship, Discipleship: Following Jesus, and Spiritual Formation and Disciplines. Proponents of both sides of these arguments show a gross lack of knowledge of the Hebrew prophets, particularly Isaiah, and speak from their experiences within a school of thought, modern books, etc.. in other words, doctrines of men. I like the expression "theological framework", of which I had none when I came back to the Lord in my 30's. I grew up Catholic, and I was so concerned about what I could rely upon from catechism, that I threw everything out and started from scratch with the Gospel of John. I had always studied the synoptic gospels and pastoral letters, but was completely unfamiliar with the apostle Paul, Acts, and John. In the 80's it had become common to hear people witnessing on the streets and making reference to being born again. This was my first order of business, to get to the
bottom of that idea. Of course, when I got to the nearly complete red letter chapters 13-17, my eyes were then wide open to the person of the Holy Spirit, and came to know His voice, which has guided my devotions for 30 years now. Praise God I was simple of enough to read and ask. And I have kept on asking, while in the past 18 months I have posted over 1000 threads, which mostly came out of my morning devotions, while others started in a response to another members thread. Since I had retired 3 years ago, my devotion time expanded to at least 2 hours, sometimes up to 4, and I have been astounded by how much more I was able to see coming out of the scriptures that I had read dozens of times in the past. With the Holy Spirit as an ever present help, I cultivated an anointing under the Gospel of Matthew 13:52, and have remained faithful to that so far. For with the devotions to the Bible,
"NO WORD IS WITHOUT POWER!
Blessings of the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, as you continue to grow in Grace.
 

Mr. M

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Can you flesh this out?
That's an interesting expression! "FLESH this out." :)
Just teasing. This is not overly complicated. I just applied myself to the scriptures only, with
prayer. Asking and receiving. What I did have a good memory of was to be like children
to ask, seek and knock. So I did not try to return to my childhood roots in catechism. I did
not read any books that were purported to explain doctrines. I found over time a consistency
from old to new, be it prophets, kings, Messiah or apostles. The goal was to experience the
liberty Paul says we should experience in Christ. Where 2 or more are gathered. I would rather
meet with a couple of fellow Christians for prayer, study and submission to the Spirit than to study
doctrines of any denomination, writings of early church Fathers or commentators through the centuries.
I would rather hear what you have to say under the anointing today as we fellowship, than some
popular figure, writer, teacher who I don't really know, and is not in the moment.
This is what Jesus is saying here.

Mark 12:27 "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living."
Let us walk in the Spirit, and we will not indulge the desires of the flesh.
 
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BeyondET

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we are told that a curse would be upon anything added or removed from that Word. our Lord

how about the chapter and verse numbering system, clearly the original writings had none, those where added around 1557AD.

how can we know for sure it is approved to be added to the word.
 
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Mr. M

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how about the chapter and verse numbering system, clearly the original writings had none, those where added around 1557AD.
Here is the reference.
Revelation 22:
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away
his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

This does not mean I buy a new Bible and it has extra chapters or verses. It means I am teaching
something, say from the pulpit, that contradicts or embellishes what is found there. If that seems
difficult to put your finger on, all the more reason to be cautious when discussing topics that refer
to what is revealed in the scriptures.

hoe can we know for sure it is approved to be added to the word.
2 Corinthians 13:
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”
I have always found that the scriptures answer any questions about itself, or we should hold our
peace until the Lord reveals more.

Philippians 3:15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything
you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.
 
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Mr. M

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a lot of folks don't even know that all four gospels were anonymous
how would anyone know that for a fact?
the names were added in the 2nd century.
This is the kind of information that I find somewhat speculative and unnecessary for us to stay
on the same page in our core beliefs, and remain in agreement.
 
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BeyondET

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how would anyone know that for a fact?

This is the kind of information that I find somewhat speculative and unnecessary for us to stay
on the same page in our core beliefs, and remain in agreement.

I'll give you a example, when reading genesis 1 there is no need to wonder and come up with ideas on how plants and trees grow without sunlight, if it is read properly like so. but of coarse the world can not except its not in order. There is a lot of miss placed verses and chapters in the bible. its been going on since the beginning of writings

genesis 1

The Second Day

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters, to separate the waters from the waters.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the waters beneath it from the waters above. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

The Fourth Day

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15 And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.16 God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.17 God set these lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth, 18 to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

The Third Day

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered into one place, so that the dry land may appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of waters He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth vegetation: seed-bearing plants and fruit trees, each bearing fruit with seed according to its kind.” And it was so. 12 The earth produced vegetation: seed-bearing plants according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
 
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BeyondET

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Here is the reference.
Revelation 22:
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book:
If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away
his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

This does not mean I buy a new Bible and it has extra chapters or verses. It means I am teaching
something, say from the pulpit, that contradicts or embellishes what is found there. If that seems
difficult to put your finger on, all the more reason to be cautious when discussing topics that refer
to what is revealed in the scriptures.


2 Corinthians 13:
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”
I have always found that the scriptures answer any questions about itself, or we should hold our
peace until the Lord reveals more.

Philippians 3:15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything
you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

how did all these books become part of the bible thus one book, was it God who said so or man, i'm thinking the latter.
 
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Mr. M

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I'll give you a example, when reading genesis 1 there is no need to wonder and come up with ideas on how plants grow without sunlight, if it is read properly like so. but of coarse the world can not except its not in order. There is a lot of miss placed verses and chapters in the bible. its been going on since the beginning of writings

genesis 1

The Second Day

6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters, to separate the waters from the waters.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the waters beneath it from the waters above. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

The Fourth Day

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15 And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so.16 God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night. And He made the stars as well.17 God set these lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth, 18 to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

The Third Day

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered into one place, so that the dry land may appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of waters He called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth vegetation: seed-bearing plants and fruit trees, each bearing fruit with seed according to its kind.” And it was so. 12 The earth produced vegetation: seed-bearing plants according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
If that is something you find interesting, and meet someone who shares that interest, at least it is
a Biblical topic of discussion. I do not base my faith on Genesis 1, or creation science. That creation
has been destroyed. When people say they love the beauty of God's creation, I think "at least what
survived the first judgment". None of it will survive the second. I am waiting for the new heaven and
earth in which righteousness will reign. 2 Peter 3:13
I am not trying to give you a hard time, but the post is about setting aside differences, of possible
disagreements in any area. The NT discusses the fall of Adam, so we should be able to agree about
what Paul teaches on sin. Jesus speaks on marriage with a reference to the first man and woman.
Do you see where I am coming from? Finding common ground. As I mentioned earlier.
Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, to that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
Just a desire to maintain fellowship without divisions forming, and I am certainly not saying an
intelligent discussion of creation is unnecessary, it is a popular topic. Just a little off-topic for this
thread.
 
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Mr. M

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how did all these books become part of the bible thus one book, was it God who said so or man, i'm thinking the latter.
Again, this is off topic for the testimony of the thread.
There is a forum for discussing these topics.
This is just a testimony I shared.
 
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BeyondET

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If that is something you find interesting, and meet someone who shares that interest, at least it is
a Biblical topic of discussion. I do not base my faith on Genesis 1, or creation science. That creation
has been destroyed. When people say they love the beauty of God's creation, I think "at least what
survived the first judgment". None of it will survive the second. I am waiting for the new heaven and
earth in which righteousness will reign. 2 Peter 3:13
I am not trying to give you a hard time, but the post is about setting aside differences, of possible
disagreements in any area. The NT discusses the fall of Adam, so we should be able to agree about
what Paul teaches on sin. Jesus speaks on marriage with a reference to the first man and woman.
Do you see where I am coming from? Finding common ground. As I mentioned earlier.

Just a desire to maintain fellowship without divisions forming, and I am certainly not saying an
intelligent discussion of creation is unnecessary, it is a popular topic. Just a little off-topic for this
thread.
well i don't find it interesting but of truth. i'm realizing more and more common ground is far and few between.

cya
 
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Mr. M

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well i don't find it interesting but of truth. i'm realizing more and more common ground is far and few between.

cya
Okay. I am not going to stop inviting someone to a Bible study because they want to know how
plants grew in Genesis 1. But if the Bible study is from say John 15 on abiding in the Spirit, I may
advise that person that Genesis 1 is a little off topic, that's all. As I said in my first response, if that
is something that interests you, there are forums on the site for discussion on creationism. You can't crash a testimony and say, let's talk about Genesis.
 
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BeyondET

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No problem. I sometimes fail to notice what forum I am in and drop 2 cents, and I get a
response like "dude, this is Greek orthodox only forum" :)

i know that all to well, i've done it myself unfortunately
 
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BeyondET

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Okay. I am not going to stop inviting someone to a Bible study because they want to know how
plants grew in Genesis 1. But if the Bible study is from say John 15 on abiding in the Spirit, I may
advise that person that Genesis 1 is a little off topic, that's all. As I said in my first response, if that
is something that interests you, there are forums on the site for discussion on creationism. You can't crash a testimony and say, let's talk about Genesis.

again i apologize for being off topic i get you want to rake me on it i get it but its not a interest of mine but of knowing.
 
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I don't have anything to add. I'm just 'listening'. :heartribbon:
That's an interesting expression! "FLESH this out." :)
Just teasing. This is not overly complicated. I just applied myself to the scriptures only, with
prayer. Asking and receiving. What I did have a good memory of was to be like children
to ask, seek and knock. So I did not try to return to my childhood roots in catechism. I did
not read any books that were purported to explain doctrines. I found over time a consistency
from old to new, be it prophets, kings, Messiah or apostles. The goal was to experience the
liberty Paul says we should experience in Christ. Where 2 or more are gathered. I would rather
meet with a couple of fellow Christians for prayer, study and submission to the Spirit than to study
doctrines of any denomination, writings of early church Fathers or commentators through the centuries.
I would rather hear what you have to say under the anointing today as we fellowship, than some
popular figure, writer, teacher who I don't really know, and is not in the moment.
This is what Jesus is saying here.

Mark 12:27 "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living."
Let us walk in the Spirit, and we will not indulge the desires of the flesh.
 
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