SETI Receives Message from ET: How would you react?

[Radrook]

Radrook, I believe the OT was redacted and drastically edited. The Hebrew priest converted a relatively ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction which has forever warped the common Israelites historical worldview as well as Christianity's. However every time they edited and bloated themselves they left signs of what was in the original writings.

Well, you definitely have a right to your opinion.

Here is why my opinion differs. You see, if indeed the writers of the OT were seeking to historical aggrandize the nation of Israel via concocted history, then they would not have written about all the national flaws and personal defects of Israel's kings, the national defeats, the constant sinning against their God, the repeated punishments leading to two humiliating exiles and other such horribly humiliating shortcomings.

Writers seeking national aggrandizement don't display that kind of honesty. Instead, they paint a rosy picture of their leaders and their people as the Egyptians tended to do. In fact, that honesty is one which most Biblical scholars consider an indication that the writings are indeed historically accurate.

Biblical Historical Accuracy 2
http://www.answering-islam.org/Case/case2.html

 

[RDKirk]

Some speculate that such a message regardless of its nature would turn religion on its head. That many Christians would be devastated by it because of its implications.
I personally would have absolutely no problems with it. Would like to hear your opinions.

"I interesting. I wonder if they know Jesus."

 

[Radrook]

"I interesting. I wonder if they know Jesus."

Please note that knowing Jesus for salvation is a requirement made necessary for humans based on human ancestral sin which caused mankind to suffer a fall from its original perfection. If indeed there are other material creatures who are made in God's image somewhere else who have also fallen from grace, knowing or not knowing Jesus in relation to salvation might be totally irrelevant to their situation since his sacrifice would only cover mankind. A similar sacrifice to cover the sins of non-Adamic-descended aliens, within the framework of God's justice, would demand a death of a perfect alien-not a perfect human. Whether this has occurred repeatedly throughout the universe or not, we of course are unaware. However, if indeed we are finally informed that it has, then our religious sensibilities might indeed suffer a significant shock for obvious reasons.

 

[Colter]

Well, you definitely have a right to your opinion.

Here is why my opinion differs. You see, if indeed the writers of the OT were seeking to historical aggrandize the nation of Israel via concocted history, then they would not have written about all the national flaws and personal defects of Israel's kings, the national defeats, the constant sinning against their God, the repeated punishments leading to two humiliating exiles and other such horribly humiliating shortcomings.

Writers seeking national aggrandizement don't display that kind of honesty. Instead, they paint a rosy picture of their leaders and their people as the Egyptians tended to do. In fact, that honesty is one which most Biblical scholars consider an indication that the writings are indeed historically accurate.

Biblical Historical Accuracy 2
http://www.answering-islam.org/Case/case2.html

I get your point, but as I said, they exaggerated their history and left conflicting bits of the original. The Israelites intermarried with the Canaanites, they never destroyed them all. Today the Jews are descendants of that amalgamation. The Palestinians have lots of Jewish DNA. just look it up. And all throughout the bible there are multiple, conflicting accounts of the same stories. The flood, which is the most ridiculous story in the Bible, was an attempt by the Hebrew redactors to trace their bloodlines back to Adam who they assumed was the fist man even though they left Cain's fear of a populated world outside of the garden in the record?????

 

[Radrook]

I get your point, but as I said, they exaggerated their history and left conflicting bits of the original. The Israelites intermarried with the Canaanites, they never destroyed them all. Today the Jews are descendants of that amalgamation. The Palestinians have lots of Jewish DNA. just look it up. And all throughout the bible there are multiple, conflicting accounts of the same stories. The flood, which is the most ridiculous story in the Bible, was an attempt by the Hebrew redactors to trace their bloodlines back to Adam who they assumed was the fist man even though they left Cain's fear of a populated world outside of the garden in the record?????

Which bits are you referring to and how do they conflict?

True, the OT record mentions that the original mandate of destroying the Canaanites who refused to move was never carried out and that intermarriage which was strictly prohibited was also ignored and that as a result Israel suffered the consequences of spiritual contaminating which led to God's disapproval. This failure to comply is recorded in the OT. Also in the OT is God's warning of what would happen to the nation of Israel if they failed to comply. The written record provides a detailed description of the disastrous consequences of that non-compliance.

Neither do Christians or Jews deny that the Israelites disobediently mixed with the people who inhabited Canaan, actually, a great mixed crowd joined them in their Exodus from Egypt. Had they wanted to portray 100% genetic exclusiveness they would have cunningly omitted that detail as well as all other details which you are presently enthusiastically using to call them dishonest. LOL!

So I honestly fail to see what is being hidden and added here.


The Flood
The Flood, which you tag as ridiculous without providing detailed reasons why, is understood to have been provided as a record not of Jewish history leading back to Adam, but of mankind's history as a species. Not only are Jews traceable back to Adam, but all mankind is traceable back to Adam via Noah's sons Japeth, Shem and Ham. As a matter of fact, a detailed Table of Nations is provided in Genesis showing how their descendants settled spread over the Earth AFTER that Flood. So again, I fail to see how this is an exclusively Jewish scheme to trace only themselves back to Adam while excluding the rest of mankind. Never heard that one before.

BTw
In my experience those who tag the Flood as ridiculous always assume a totally atheistic perspective and from that perspective begin proclaiming total impossibilities. However, and this is a very important however, those suggested impossibilities become easily possible when the ALMIGHTY God-factor is included in the equation. Then the ridiculous accusation of total impossibilities becomes ridiculous in itself.

 

[durangodawood]

So, this assumption is not known to be possible or impossible. It is a debatable assumption. Then any question based on that is invalid.....

Questions based on debatable assumptions are invalid???

Thats absurd, honestly.

"What IF" questions are made valid by the IF, which releases us from getting hung up about the likelihood of the premise. Its what the word "IF" means.

 

[juvenissun]

What comes across is an extreme, inexplicable aversion to hypotheticals.

We can debate on the hypothesis. But not a question based on that hypothesis.

 

[juvenissun]

Questions based on debatable assumptions are invalid???

Thats absurd, honestly.
"What IF" questions are made valid by the IF.

That is why I called it a "trap".

 

[Radrook]

Questions based on debatable assumptions are invalid???

Thats absurd, honestly.
"What IF" questions are made valid by the IF.

Amazing how you are able to disentangle all the word juggling and get down to what was meant. Me? I'm honestly still trying to unravel the original objection's meaning. Care to explain what that meaning is?

 

[Radrook]

We can debate on the hypothesis. But not a question based on that hypothesis.

Why not?

 

[durangodawood]

That is why I called it a "trap".

You called it a "trap" because, as I claim, the IF made it a valid question....?

Now youre just talking nonsense.

 

[juvenissun]

Why not?

It is a trap.

 

[juvenissun]

You called it a "trap" because, as I claim, the IF made it a valid question....?

Now youre just talking nonsense.

A trap is always apparently valid.

 

[Radrook]

It is a trap.

LOLWROF! Well, that explains it! Thanks!

 

[durangodawood]

A trap is always apparently valid.

Its not a "trap". Thats just you being silly and accusing the OP guy of deception or bad-faith discussion.

The characteristics of a trap are:
Its sprung on you unsuspecting.
Youre caught there against your will.

None of those describe the hypothetical thought experiment in question.

 

[Radrook]

Its not a "trap". Thats just you being silly and accusing the OP guy of deception or bad-faith discussion.

The characteristics of a trap are:
Its sprung on you unsuspecting.
Youre caught there against your will.

None of those describe the hypothetical thought experiment in question.

That is true:


Online Dictionary

noun

2.

any device, stratagem, trick, or the like for catching a person unawares.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/trap

 

[Colter]

Which bits are you referring to and how do they conflict?

True, the OT record mentions that the original mandate of destroying the Canaanites who refused to move was never carried out and that intermarriage which was strictly prohibited was also ignored and that as a result Israel suffered the consequences of spiritual contaminating which led to God's disapproval. This failure to comply is recorded in the OT. Also in the OT is God's warning of what would happen to the nation of Israel if they failed to comply. The written record provides a detailed description of the disastrous consequences of that non-compliance.

Neither do Christians or Jews deny that the Israelites disobediently mixed with the people who inhabited Canaan, actually, a great mixed crowd joined them in their Exodus from Egypt. Had they wanted to portray 100% genetic exclusiveness they would have cunningly omitted that detail as well as all other details which you are presently enthusiastically using to call them dishonest. LOL!

So I honestly fail to see what is being hidden and added here.


The Flood
The Flood, which you tag as ridiculous without providing detailed reasons why, is understood to have been provided as a record not of Jewish history leading back to Adam, but of mankind's history as a species. Not only are Jews traceable back to Adam, but all mankind is traceable back to Adam via Noah's sons Japeth, Shem and Ham. As a matter of fact, a detailed Table of Nations is provided in Genesis showing how their descendants settled spread over the Earth AFTER that Flood. So again, I fail to see how this is an exclusively Jewish scheme to trace only themselves back to Adam while excluding the rest of mankind. Never heard that one before.

BTw
In my experience those who tag the Flood as ridiculous always assume a totally atheistic perspective and from that perspective begin proclaiming total impossibilities. However, and this is a very important however, those suggested impossibilities become easily possible when the ALMIGHTY God-factor is included in the equation. Then the ridiculous accusation of total impossibilities becomes ridiculous in itself.

One doesn't have to be Atheistic to deny the flood legend or that Jews hatched Chinese babies, or Aboriginal babies or Native American babies etc. after the flood myth was done.

Would you consider the Men of the Church today to be perfect? No? Then why do you consider the ancestors of those who put the Son of God through a trumped up trial and killed him to be men of perfection??????

Israel was simply a predicted land for some of Abram's ancestors who would host the Son of God on earth. Instead being selected and predicted went to their heads. In their arrogance they become "chosen people" and you a gentile dog unless you are a so called Israelite.

God never told the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites, that was their own fictional redo.

I don't know if you realize but the Jews haven't faired very well to be "chosen people." To the contrary, they have suffered horribly. Jesus told them after they rejected yet another messenger as well as their sacred calling "I leave your house desolate"

 

[juvenissun]

Its not a "trap". Thats just you being silly and accusing the OP guy of deception or bad-faith discussion.

The characteristics of a trap are:
Its sprung on you unsuspecting.
Youre caught there against your will.

None of those describe the hypothetical thought experiment in question.

People see the OP will naturally consider the question first, not the condition. We have seen this in some replies.
People do not agree with the condition, but are forced to answer the question within the condition.

Both fit your definition of a trap.

 

[durangodawood]

People see the OP will naturally consider the question first, not the condition. We have seen this in some replies.
People do not agree with the condition, but are forced to answer the question within the condition.

Both fit your definition of a trap.

You have to completely infantilize people to imagine they would get duped by or stuck in the OP question and condition.

 

[Radrook]

One doesn't have to be Atheistic to deny the flood legend or that Jews hatched Chinese babies, or Aboriginal babies or Native American babies etc. after the flood myth was done.

Would you consider the Men of the Church today to be perfect? No? Then why do you consider the ancestors of those who put the Son of God through a trumped up trial and killed him to be men of perfection??????

Israel was simply a predicted land for some of Abram's ancestors who would host the Son of God on earth. Instead being selected and predicted went to their heads. In their arrogance they become "chosen people" and you a gentile dog unless you are a so called Israelite.

God never told the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites, that was their own fictional redo.

I don't know if you realize but the Jews haven't faired very well to be "chosen people." To the contrary, they have suffered horribly. Jesus told them after they rejected yet another messenger as well as their sacred calling "I leave your house desolate"

I never said that I consider the Jews men of perfection.
I never claimed that the Jews have faired well. Obviously their history is full of disasters.
I never claimed that the Jews remained God's Chosen people after the New Covenant was established..
Christianity is about being a spiritual Israelite-not a literal one.
As for being chosen, yes, according to Genesis they were clearly chosen to be the ones through whom the Messiah or the seed of God's woman as prophesied in Genesis 3:15 would come.

Should I conclude that this promise went to their heads and induced them to invent the rest of the biblical narrative after that Edenic promise? Well if I had good reason I would. But I see no compelling reason to do so. They seem honest enough in their historical accounts to describe themselves as despicable and rejected when they behaved despicably. So I have absolutely no justifiable basis to assume that they sought to deceive us into thinking otherwise. It just doesn't add up.