Serving Others as Serving Christ

[ZiSunka]

I hate to say it but, I don't feel as though church has made an impact on me. I got far more out of a weekly bible study.

I felt the same way for years. I recently started going to Saturday service, and it has made all the difference for me.

On Saturday nights, the pastor preaches on the same sermon topic as he does in all the services on sunday, but he doesn't limit himself to 30 minutes on Saturday nights. He preaches until he is done, sometimes an hour or more. His outline is a classical three-point sermon, but he lets the Spirit lead him and he can really go into depth in a way he can't in 30 minutes on Sundays. And he lets the Spirit keep him preaching until He has said everything that needs to be said. It's great when the Lord takes control of the service instead of the clock taking control.

On Saturdays, we also pray and praise more. On Sundays, the prayer requests are all typed up in the bulletin and one of the elders says a blanket prayer over them lasting about a minute. On Saturdays, the pastor calls for praises and prayer requests (separately) and this usually lasts for half an hour or more. Then the elders (men and women) pray over every request in depth.

On sundays, I can't wait til service is over, but on saturday nights, I hate when it's over.

I think part of the difference in the church's failure to impact the world is that the church tries to do too much on it's own and doesn't let the Lord speak enough.

Faith comes from hearing the word of God, and few sunday morning sermons have a lot of the word in them.

 

[MrJim]

How about this?

Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, "The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

Maybe there just isn't enough people working at it? The churches that are there have 10% of the people trying to do the work of 100% of the people and it just falls short?

 

[ZiSunka]

How about this?

Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, "The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

Maybe there just isn't enough people working at it? The churches that are there have 10% of the people trying to do the work of 100% of the people and it just falls short?

Most of them only have a handful of members. One service we went to had 8 people besides us. And that was a good week because people who didn't usually go to church turned out to meet the strangers from Ohio.

But I have seen small churches like that make a big impact. The mennonite church I went to before started with three people and still was a living, breathing church. This church didn't have an order of service, and prayer times would last hours some sundays, and the preacher preached for hours sometimes. I used to get to church at 9 am and not get out until 2 pm sometimes.

I think it has more to do with trying to make the service fit into the 10 - 11 am tv time slot, like church was an episode of Law and Order or Antiques Roadshow. Some churches are so much like theaters that it's almost like the pastor should be on HDTV and in some churches, the pastor really is projected onto a jumbotron, like a tv show.

All the living churches I have seen tossed out the order of service and tossed the clock out of the sanctuary.

Maybe churches aren't working because we are too entertainment-based and not truth-focused enough?

The reason I started going to this current church is because they put this message on their marquis sign, "How can a moral wrong be a civil right?" When I saw that, I knew it was a church that would speak the truth no matter what. And it does. But it does it a lot better on Saturdays than on Sundays.

 

[MrJim]

The reason I started going to this current church is because they put this message on their marquis sign, "How can a moral wrong be a civil right?" When I saw that, I knew it was a church that would speak the truth no matter what. And it does. But it does it a lot better on Saturdays than on Sundays.

Is that because the Sat worship is not as ordered as Sunday?

 

[ZiSunka]

Is that because the Sat worship is not as ordered as Sunday?

It's ordered, it just isn't on a stopwatch.

You know, "10 am, time for the call to worship. 10:03, pastor reads the announcements. 10:07, pastor drops his head and says, "Lord bless us all in the worship and thanks for getting everyone here safely (like those are the only things to be thankful for). 10:08, first worship song, 10:11, second worship song, 10:15 third worship song, 10:18 solo, 10:22 last song, 10:25 offering, 10:30 pastor takes the podium, 10:55 pastor concludes and gives the benedition, 11:00 people run for the door."

On saturdays, the service is more open to allowing more worship, more praise and prayer, a more in depth sermon that doesn't have anything to do with competing with whatever is on tv.

Maybe I'm saying that one reason the church isn't making an impact on people's lives is because it's trying too hard to be like TV and not enough like church.

 

[Jehane]

I agree about the order of service thing. Our church chucked it out. Time is a problem though. Lots of our older ladies have non-believing husbands & need to be out the door by a certain time. If we run over too much they don't get to fellowship & hubbies get cranky. It's a bit of a catch-22 for our church. Lots are happy to go longer but we have to consider the whole body. Plus we have a number of disabled members who find physically sitting for so long excruiating.

 

[ZiSunka]

I agree about the order of service thing. Our church chucked it out. Time is a problem though. Lots of our older ladies have non-believing husbands & need to be out the door by a certain time. If we run over too much they don't get to fellowship & hubbies get cranky. It's a bit of a catch-22 for our church. Lots are happy to go longer but we have to consider the whole body. Plus we have a number of disabled members who find physically sitting for so long excruiating.

I think it would be great if those ladies could leave whenever they need to, while the rest of the people continue to enjoy the service. The way you guys are doing it now, those cranky husbands are in charge, instead of the Lord being in charge! The ladies could fellowship at the mid-week meeting or at the ladies group.

As for the disabled members, in our saturday service, people can get up and move around as much as they need to, and there is bottled water and coffee and juice, plus light snacks for people who would get too hungry or have problems with blood sugar.

There are ways to keep from being slaves to the clock.

 

[MrJim]

I think it would be great if those ladies could leave whenever they need to, while the rest of the people continue to enjoy the service. The way you guys are doing it now, those cranky husbands are in charge, instead of the Lord being in charge! The ladies could fellowship at the mid-week meeting or at the ladies group.

As for the disabled members, in our saturday service, people can get up and move around as much as they need to, and there is bottled water and coffee and juice, plus light snacks for people who would get too hungry or have problems with blood sugar.

There are ways to keep from being slaves to the clock.

Good points, also teaches the children that worship time isn't a "clock" thing too.

 

[ZiSunka]

We are all too much slaves to the clock, in one-hour segments, which very coincidentally is the exact amount of time in a primetime TV show. Strange but true.

 

[Jehane]

You are right Walkin but no ladies group, no mid-week worship. Sunday service is the only chance for the whole body to come together. We are a very small & very isolated church. That we survive & grow at all is one of God's little miricals.

 

[ZiSunka]

You are right Walkin but no ladies group, no mid-week worship.

So start one! It's up to the people of Christ to hold together the body of Christ!

Sunday service is the only chance for the whole body to come together.

Only if you let it be.

We are a very small & very isolated church. That we survive & grow at all is one of God's little miricals.

Maybe you would grow if your services were more open to the Spirit and more accessible to the people?

I really think the only way to beat the spirit of apathy is to make time to praise and thank God as a body of believers and to spend extended time as a body in hearing the word of God. You can't do that in one hour on Sunday mornings.

 

[Jehane]

All your ideas are good Walkin but seriously not feasible at present. I have no-where to run a ladies group; my house has been consumed by the home business. We were forced to shut down our bible study because it's unsafe to have people here.

I HS. I don't have time for lots of extra fellowship activities. I allocate Sundays for that - wether it's staying through a longer than usual service or extra visiting or however the spirit leads.

And there I think is one of the problems. So many of us are just seriously time-deprived & it takes time to disciple others, teach them how to follow after Jesus & my first ministry is still to my own family. Others come after.

I know everyone in my church (& there aren't that many of us) has a community ministry is some form or other but our impact is still minimal.

I do not know what the answer is.

 

[ZiSunka]

All your ideas are good Walkin but seriously not feasible at present. I have no-where to run a ladies group; my house has been consumed by the home business. We were forced to shut down our bible study because it's unsafe to have people here.

I HS. I don't have time for lots of extra fellowship activities. I allocate Sundays for that - wether it's staying through a longer than usual service or extra visiting or however the spirit leads.

And there I think is one of the problems. So many of us are just seriously time-deprived & it takes time to disciple others, teach them how to follow after Jesus & my first ministry is still to my own family. Others come after.

I know everyone in my church (& there aren't that many of us) has a community ministry is some form or other but our impact is still minimal.

I do not know what the answer is.

How about giving up the busy-ness to spend a little time on things that really matter?

You don't have to have the ladies at your house. You have a meeting house, have them there. It doesn't have to be a big deal, just spend an hour or two a couple times a month together, without an agenda. Your family won't fall apart if you spend a couple hours a month with other women doing nothing but talking and fellowshipping. And it may even give you energy to face all the other things you "have" to do. Some of the women at one church here in town meet for dessert once a month. They spend about an hour together, have a great time, get connected and recharged and it doesn't cost them that much time or money.

It sounds like you've got a dozen excuses, but no really really good reasons. I don't mean that in a mean way, it's just an observation. We westerns make ourselves very busy, it's self-imposed and not something that is ordained by God.

It's funny because in Europe, people kept being amazed that Americans don't spend time socializing every evening. They don't understand how we can stay sane if we are just holed up in our houses making work for ourselves and running our children to every possible event and watching TV. I think they have a point. We don't even seem to have time to visit with the women in our own church once or twice a month, or to worship God and listen to His word for more than one hour a week, if that.

I wonder how much it will matter whether or not we ran our kids to some sports practice or if we did that "ministry" we think so highly of. My mom took us to dance lessons and softball practice and music lessons and she worked and all that. In the end, she died very young and we don't even dance or play instruments anymore. Was it really worth it for her to wear herself out for things we don't even care about anymore?

 

[~InHisHands~]

 

[Jehane]

Perhaps. But you don't know exactly what our situation is & I am not free; not from a lack of desire but from a purely practical point that I don't feel free to discuss on an open forum. However I can agree in principal that your points are valid.

 

[ZiSunka]

Perhaps. But you don't know exactly what our situation is & I am not free; not from a lack of desire but from a purely practical point that I don't feel free to discuss on an open forum. However I can agree in principal that your points are valid.

No one is free. We all have burdens and responsibilities.

 

[MrJim]

After reading all this now I think I will go to the Men's prayer breakfast at church. They meet at the church for prayer then go to breakfast. I always used excuses for not going, but in retrospect they were pretty lame.

 

[~InHisHands~]

No one is free. We all have burdens and responsibilities.

Just a question here, do you do everything you should all the time despite whatever is going on in your life?

 

[ZiSunka]

Just a question here, do you do everything you should all the time despite whatever is going on in your life?

I have a feeling that no matter how I would answer, you would end up delivering the same sermon.

And, there is a big difference between doing everything all the time and making a thousand excuses for doing nothing at all.

 

[~InHisHands~]

What sermon? It was just a simple question.