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Seriously?!?!?!?

Yeshua HaDerekh

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But, there's still no reason for it to be posted HERE

Why not? These type of things help bring these issues into the light of day and not be kept hidden. These issues have happened even in our church...
Eric Iliff said he as abused at St. Vladimir’s Orthodox Theological Seminary in New York. Eric took his own life. Administrators removed Father Timothy Blumentritt from his position once Eric told them he was abused. He was later defrocked by the Church.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I gathered, but that doesn't mean they needed or wanted your commentary.

Give me a break. Maybe before I post I should ask if anyone would mind if I post SMH...maybe we all should...how about you? Why are you so obsessed with this?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Give me a break. Maybe before I post I should ask if anyone would mind if I post SMH...maybe we all should...how about you? Why are you so obsessed with this?

I am not obsessed at all. it's rude to do in their forum. I'd be saying the same thing if a RC came in here and started posting about the sex abuse that we have suffered.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I am not obsessed at all. it's rude to do in their forum. I'd be saying the same thing if a RC came in here and started posting about the sex abuse that we have suffered.

I didn't post it there. I commented on THEIR comments...sheesh! Relax!
 
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ArmyMatt

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I didn't post it there. I commented on THEIR comments...sheesh! Relax!

and my point has always been that they never needed your commentary, just like for our own issues we don't need theirs. it'd be in just as poor taste if they would comment on our comments on here.

and I am perfectly relaxed.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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and my point has always been that they never needed your commentary, just like for our own issues we don't need theirs. it'd be in just as poor taste if they would comment on our comments on here.

and I am perfectly relaxed.

As I said, I understand your point, but I don't agree with it. BTW, I don't care who posts on TAW, I will defend, debate and discuss anything I need to.
 
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ArmyMatt

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As I said, I understand your point, but I don't agree with it. BTW, I don't care who posts on TAW, I will defend, debate and discuss anything I need to.

that's not the issue.

and my point has been that kind of commentary in their forum is uncalled for. I wasn't the first to say that, and, unless I missed something, no one has yet agreed with you that posting those comments was something that should have been done.
 
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dzheremi

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Sometimes it can hard to tell where the line is on certain topics because you would think that everyone would agree that X is bad (or whatever your point in posting over there was; I didn't see the post/s in question, since I don't go to OBOB very often), but then there's also the question of why exactly it needs to be said if you are indeed correct about that. For instance, I don't spend any time defending Trinitarianism here on TAW (or anywhere outside of the "Debate Other Religions" section, because that's where the the non-Trinitarians are), because it would be kind of pointless. It's not needed, and if it is needed then the people here can best defend their own Church. At best if I have any role as a guest anywhere it is to agree with what is agreeable and defend in the sense of not providing succor to the enemy who may come (t)here to preach something else using examples that would include me and my Church (because a lot of people tend to invoke the Chalcedonian schism in weird ways, e.g., to make a case of Roman Catholicism in particular -- as I have seen here on TAW -- without realizing that this is inappropriate and will not work, because the OO share many of the same objections to RC doctrine for mostly the same reasons as stated by EO).

Otherwise, what is the point of involving oneself in a situation that has no possible connection to you or your Church? Isn't it best to pray for those suffering in the RCC as a result of things like the pedophile situation and the protection of pedophiles, both of which are abhorrent to the faithful of every communion? I do not see the point of doing otherwise. Is it to treat the RCC as though it is a puppy, and rubbing its nose in its own mess will teach it something it can't learn better by loving but firm correction when appropriate (say, if one of them were to come here, where the congregational forum rule is in your favor)? Its change as an institution and a collection of people seeking to worship God, its metanoia if you will, must come from inside, just as we all must demonstrate our own metanoia before the Lord, right?

And that is far harder than posting whatever everyone will already agree with on a message board, I would think. It is the hardest saying of the Desert Fathers, for me personally, that true humility is to admit that you have done nothing good before God (since we all want to say we have done good in standing up to evil, wherever it comes from and however it manifests itself). And further another of these holy men (forgive me for not having citations on hand; I am away from my copy of the collection of their sayings, but it is in Benedicta Ward's translation, I believe) is recorded as having said that if he could ever truly see the full enormity of his own sins, there would not be enough monks in all the monasteries in all of Egypt to weep over them. And of course there were many more monks and many more monasteries at that time then there are now. Lord have mercy.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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that's not the issue.

and my point has been that kind of commentary in their forum is uncalled for. I wasn't the first to say that, and, unless I missed something, no one has yet agreed with you that posting those comments was something that should have been done.

Uncalled for. Again, I disagree. These things should be discussed and not hidden. Hiding these things does not help, in fact that is one way it has been made worse. Why would it matter if no one agrees? It is not a popularity contest...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Sometimes it can hard to tell where the line is on certain topics because you would think that everyone would agree that X is bad (or whatever your point in posting over there was; I didn't see the post/s in question, since I don't go to OBOB very often), but then there's also the question of why exactly it needs to be said if you are indeed correct about that. For instance, I don't spend any time defending Trinitarianism here on TAW (or anywhere outside of the "Debate Other Religions" section, because that's where the the non-Trinitarians are), because it would be kind of pointless. It's not needed, and if it is needed then the people here can best defend their own Church. At best if I have any role as a guest anywhere it is to agree with what is agreeable and defend in the sense of not providing succor to the enemy who may come (t)here to preach something else using examples that would include me and my Church (because a lot of people tend to invoke the Chalcedonian schism in weird ways, e.g., to make a case of Roman Catholicism in particular -- as I have seen here on TAW -- without realizing that this is inappropriate and will not work, because the OO share many of the same objections to RC doctrine for mostly the same reasons as stated by EO).

Otherwise, what is the point of involving oneself in a situation that has no possible connection to you or your Church? Isn't it best to pray for those suffering in the RCC as a result of things like the pedophile situation and the protection of pedophiles, both of which are abhorrent to the faithful of every communion? I do not see the point of doing otherwise. Is it to treat the RCC as though it is a puppy, and rubbing its nose in its own mess will teach it something it can't learn better by loving but firm correction when appropriate (say, if one of them were to come here, where the congregational forum rule is in your favor)? Its change as an institution and a collection of people seeking to worship God, its metanoia if you will, must come from inside, just as we all must demonstrate our own metanoia before the Lord, right?

And that is far harder than posting whatever everyone will already agree with on a message board, I would think. It is the hardest saying of the Desert Fathers, for me personally, that true humility is to admit that you have done nothing good before God (since we all want to say we have done good in standing up to evil, wherever it comes from and however it manifests itself). And further another of these holy men (forgive me for not having citations on hand; I am away from my copy of the collection of their sayings, but it is in Benedicta Ward's translation, I believe) is recorded as having said that if he could ever truly see the full enormity of his own sins, there would not be enough monks in all the monasteries in all of Egypt to weep over them. And of course there were many more monks and many more monasteries at that time then there are now. Lord have mercy.

I understand your point but we are talking about pedophilia and molestation by priests and an organization protecting and helping them, not defending or debating religious doctrines and theology. It is an issue that should be discussed in the open and not hidden. It is an issue that is across all the religious realms and denominations and should be condemned adamantly.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Uncalled for. Again, I disagree. These things should be discussed and not hidden. Hiding these things does not help, in fact that is one way it has been made worse. Why would it matter if no one agrees? It is not a popularity contest...

I agree they should be discussed. no one is saying that it shouldn't be discussed at all. that was never the issue. the problem for many on here was how it was done, not simply that it was done. Rome doesn't need any of us to go into their house and point out their problems.

plus, as you yourself said, they already knew of this prior to your commentary. so it's not something hidden which needed your (or my) two cents to come into the light.

no one is saying it's a popularity contest, but pretty much everyone out the gate has said it was in poor taste.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I agree they should be discussed. no one is saying that it shouldn't be discussed at all. that was never the issue. the problem for many on here was how it was done, not simply that it was done. Rome doesn't need any of us to go into their house and point out their problems.

plus, as you yourself said, they already knew of this prior to your commentary. so it's not something hidden which needed your (or my) two cents to come into the light.

no one is saying it's a popularity contest, but pretty much everyone out the gate has said it was in poor taste.

AGAIN, I understand what you are saying. Knowing about it because someone else posted it, yes. I commented because I thought I needed to. I didn't point out their problems, I commented on them. If you and others don't like that, oh well...
 
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ArmyMatt

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