Separating Jews and Non-Jews In Christ: Undoing A Part of the Gospel

[texian]

Separating Jews and Non-Jews In Christ: Undoing A Part of the Gospel and Finished Work of Christ

Through John Darby, C.I. Scofield, Lewis S. Chafer, the classical dispensationalists, and many others, their followers, Satan has been able to undo an important part of the Gospel and the finished work of Christ on the Cross. What has been undone is the union of Jew and non-Jew in Christ. Jew and Gentile have been separated in what is called dispensationalism. This theology, now a tradition of men (Matthew 15: 6, Mark 7:8), has been called separation theology, for example by Richard L. Pratt, Jr., a Calvinist professor of theology. It honors all physical Israel, the Jews, and in effect says they remain the chosen people, and says physical Israel as a house which rejected Christ, now stands alongside what they call the Capital C Church as a separate group of God's people.

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10: 12

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 27-29

Romans 10: 12 might be interpreted to mean that in Christ the Jews are still Jews, but they and the non-Jews who are both in Christ are now equal.

But if you look more carefully at Galatians 3: 27-28, "there is neither Jew not Greek" because both are one in Christ you can begin to see that the New Testament is teaching that the identity of those of physical Israel, the Jews, does not exist in Christ. Galatians 3: 3-29 shows that all those who are in Christ are the spiritual seed of Abraham and that the special status of the member of Old Covenant physical Israel, by virtue of physical descent from Abraham, is no more. Now, there is neither Jew nor non-Jew in Christ, because all in Christ are the spiritual descendants of Abraham, and his seed, which is the seed of God.

In Ephesians 2: 11-20 the non-Jews are first said to be aliens to the commonwealth of Israel (verse 12). But Ephesians 2: 13 says "...now in Christ Jesus ye who were sometimes far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." Nigh is an old English word meaning close. Ephesians 2: 18 says "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." "We both" are Jews and non-Jews. But as Paul teaches in Galatians 3: 28 there is neither Jew nor Greek (non-Jew) in Christ Jesus.

Now go on to Romans 2: 28-29, which says that the Jew who is an outward Jew, as a physical descendant of Abraham, whose Jewish identity is in that and what Hebrews 10: 1 and Colossians 2: 16-17 call the shadows (the ceremonial law), including Old Covenant circumcision is now in Christ not a Jew any more. The real Jew now is a spiritual Jew who is one inwardly, in the inner life, who is led by the Spirit and not by the letter of the Law.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Romans 2: 28-29

God turned physical Israel upside down, as he said he would do in II Kings 21: 13, "and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down."

"Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not?" Isaiah 29: 16

"And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
5. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. Jeremiah 18: 4-6

So, not only does the tradition of men concocted by John Darby, C. I. Scofield, Lewis S. Chafer and others do away with the union of two groups, the Jews and the non-Jews in Christ. But this theology also denies the teaching of Paul that there is neither Jew nor non-Jew in Christ and that the old Jew whose identity as Jew is tied up in that which is physical is no longer a true Jew. The true Jew, if you want to use that term, is nor a spiritual Jew.

Understanding what Paul is teaching in Galatians 3: 27-28 and in Romans 2; 28-29 is necessary for understanding the metaphor of the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11, where the word witness, martus, means both witness and martyr.

And understanding the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 requires an understanding of Revelation 9: 15-19 of the Fifth Trumpet Judgment. In Revelation 9: 15, 18 the third part of men is killed. If you understand that this does not mean that one third of all people living then are physically killed, but it means that of three part man, made in the image of God, the spiritual part is metaphorically killed. If a man is not physically killed, he might recover that spiritual part of him that is metaphorically said to be killed by the huge army of horsemen in Revelation 9: 16. In Revelation 11: 7 the beast out of the bottomless pit kills the Two Witnesses, who are not literally two guys. But the Two Witnesses who have been "killed," meaning their spiritual part has been "killed" by the beast out of the bottomless pit, inspiring this army of false prophets, in Revelation 11: 11 are given their spiritual life by the Spirit of life from God.

An understanding of the identity of the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14, as well as of Daniel 11: 33 is also important for understanding Revelation 11, the Two Witnesses.

Those claiming to be Christians who have been deceived into believing that the separation between Jew and non-Jew still exists in Christ and Christians who have forsaken their heritage as the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) and as the commonwealth of Israel (Ephesian 2: 11-19) is the tribulation, the indignation of the Lord (Isaiah 26: 20), when the Lord passes judgement upon his house. This is also the Threshing Floor of Jeremiah 51: 33, where the wheat is separated from the chaff.

"Immediately after the tribulation of these days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven..." Matthew 24: 29-30

The period of the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is part of the tribulation, the judgment upon those claiming to be of God.

 

[Zeek]

...and yet the Body/ekklesia/Church is made up of saved Gentiles and saved Jews....it's true we are one in Messiah, but a distinction is nevertheless made, and just as male and female are one in Messiah, it is apparent there is a very noticeable distinction.

Being one in Messiah does not negate who you are, it describes your position in G-d.

 

[texian]

What does being born again in John 3: 1-12 mean? And remember that Jesus is talking here to Nicodemus, a Pharisee. You can't just make up your own view of what being born again means, and leaning to your own understanding say whatever your opinion wants to say. Christ in John 3: 1-12 did not go into detail on what changes in an individual and in physical Israel - the remnant which accepted Christ - being born again would bring about. Christ left this job to Paul (Acts 26: 15-18) and to Peter and John to some extent. Since Nicodemus is said to have to be born again in order to enter into the kingdom of God, then anyone else must also be born again to do so, including those who were thought to have been the chosen people under the Old Covenant. In being born again, everyone is changed. As far as Jews and non-Jews who are both in Christ are concerned, when both are born again, the old identity of the Jew in the physical things of the Old Covenant, including the blood line from Abraham, is put away, and the identity of the former Jew in the physical, is over, as Paul says in Romans 2: 28, "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly." The former Jew's identity is then in Jesus Christ, and in a born again Israel, not in the church. Nor is the identity of the non-Jew who is born again in the church.

When those who claim to be Christians try to separate again those who were formerly Jews from those who were formerly non-Jews the leaven of the Pharisees has to be understood. The leaven of the Pharisees is in Matthew 16: 6, 12, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees......Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees." Mark 8: 15, interestingly, says to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. Christ said to beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees, which means the doctrines they taught.


Which doctrines of the Pharisees have to be avoided? All of them except those on the moral part of the Law which agree with the New Testament.

Then, when upholding all physical Israel as a house, which rejected Christ - though a remnant accepted him (Romans 11: 5) - the spirit of anti-Christ of I John 4; 3 should be understood. Christ came to bring spiritual life and it more abundantly (John 10: 10), and so rejection of Christ is acceptance of Death, which is the spirit of anti-Christ.

"Understanding what Paul is teaching in Galatians 3: 27-28 and in Romans 2; 28-29 is necessary for understanding the metaphor of the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11, where the word witness, martus, means both witness and martyr."

Why is understanding of the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 important? Its adds to a knowledge of what is happening now and is to happen. Failing to understand this chapter leads to a rejection of knowledge. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee," Hosea 4: 6

The 144,000, seen in Revelation 7: 1-8 and Revelation 14: 1-5, can be understood only if Galatians 3: 27-28 and Romans 2: 28-29 is understood and believed. The theologies taught in the churches do not apply Galatians 3: 27-28, Romans 2: 28-29, Romans 9: 6-8 and Galatians 4: 24-26 to an understanding of the identity of the 144,000.

The traditions of man are applied to that understanding rather than New Testament scripture by those in church doctrines of today. The theology called separation theology, postponement theology, Christian Zionism and the Rapture Cult, using its literalist "Hermeneutic" insists the 144,000 are all Jews. On the other hand, those Calvinists following amillennialism and maybe also those into preterism say, like the Catholics, that the 144,000 is just a general allegory for all saved people of all times.

I don't know of any Calvinists who have applied the New testament scriptures listed above to the identity of the 144,000, and like the dispensationalists, the Calvinists have no use for a Remnant of Israel, which is what the 144,000 is.

But you see, dispensationalism, starting from the postulate and not from NT scripture claims that under their "hermeneutic," from the Pagan god Hermes, the word Israel can only mean all physical Israel, and never born again Israel in Christ.

To dispensationalists a Remnant of Israel must be the Jews. I don't know what the Remnant of Israel is for a Calvinist.

So, if you start from the traditions of men, you can not understand the identity of the 144,000 and do not recognize the Remnant which is to play a role in the tribulation, and this Remnant could include some were were once Jews but are now Christians and not Jews, since they have been born again in Christ.

If you start from NT scripture, and believe that the word of God is absolute truth, the Remnant of Israel, seen in Revelation 12: 17, by way of Daniel 11: 33, teach some of the "Two Witnesses" who have been spiritually "killed off" by the army of false prophets of Revelation 9:16-19, and in Revelation 11: 11 those who accept the testimony of Jesus Christ given by the Remnant are given the "Spirit of life from God."

Many church people do not like it when a number of scriptures drawn from both the Old and New Testaments and various parts of each are brought together and applied to an interpretation of texts, such as those on the 144,000.

The church people have been taught a compartmentalized way of understanding scripture, which makes it easier to deceive them into following the traditions of men - like dispensationalism or amillennialism.

But to change from dispensationalism or amillennialism (or historicism) to the truth on the role of the 144,000 involves a large change, especially for some coming out of the strong delusion of II Thessalonians 2: 10-12. Only a holistic approach using the all the counsel of God (Acts 20: 27) can help them come out of the delusion, and then only by God reaching down to change them can they come out of it.

The argument or quarrel between interpreting Revelation 7 and 14 on the 144,000 by scripture or by the tradition of men can easily become endless and fruitless - unless the Lord opens the door for the truth.

But, following I Corinthians 11: 19 - "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you" - there must be an interpretation of the 144,000 and of the role of the Remnant of Israel in the scenarios of the tribulation period (now) which is not true in order for that which is true to stand out in its truth - but only to those who understand it.

 

[Zeek]

When those who claim to be Christians try to separate again those who were formerly Jews from those who were formerly non-Jews the leaven of the Pharisees has to be understood. The leaven of the Pharisees is in Matthew 16: 6, 12, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees......Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees." Mark 8: 15, interestingly, says to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. Christ said to beware of the doctrine of the Pharisees, which means the doctrines they taught.

There is a vast difference between Judaising and recognising ones heritage. A Jew does not transmogrify into a different entity because he recognizes his Messiah, nor does a Gentile when He too is born again...they are united in Jesus but are still a Jew and still a Gentile.

Part of the mistake of what became institutionalized Christianity was to demand that Jews no longer remain Jews when they accept Jesus as Messiah, but are separated from their Jewish identity and become 'Christians' renouncing all things Jewish.

Judaism was not a pagan religion, and even now although they have by-passed their Messiah, and not obeyed Moses, their roots are in G-d and they have a certain understanding based on the love of G-d to them as a people and the word of G-d in both Scripture and to some extent the Oral Law codified in the Talmud. They have a fantastic heritage.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Texian:

You haven't a clue of what you speak. I am a dispensationalist and I do not take God's Word lightly. I am more serious that you can imagine. I would be careful attributing ANY theology to the working of Satan until you absolutely sure.

It is true there is no difference Jew and Greek being..IN CHRIST. Now how do you explain Romans 11 showing the Gentiles graft in contrary to nature?

Hold on to your hat and fasten your seat belt fella...there is a storm a brewing.

Take this one step at a time and don't run all over the board with references to confuse the matter. Keep your ducks in a row....line it out like a champ.

A little study material for you before we begin.
Please read Acts 28 then Ephesians and Colossians and more specifically Ephesians 2:11-18.

I will give you time to sell tickets to this event. I will be very busy tomorrow.

 

[childofdust]

Separating Jews and Non-Jews In Christ: Undoing A Part of the Gospel and Finished Work of Christ

Yeah, last time I checked, I was still male. And last time I woke up, I was still gentile. None of that changed when I became part of the church. Never did and never will. What did change was what my gender and ethnicity meant in terms of my relation to others in the Church.

if you look more carefully at Galatians 3: 27-28, "there is neither Jew not Greek" because both are one in Christ you can begin to see that the New Testament is teaching that the identity of those of physical Israel, the Jews, does not exist in Christ.

You got it backwards, I'm afraid. Physical Israel has always existed in Christ and always will. Same as physical males have always existed in Christ and always will. Same as physical gentiles have always existed in Christ and always will. You're trying to swim up a creek that doesn't exist.