Self-preoccupation and understanding of excerpt of The Way of the Ascetic

[SingularityOne]

“Therefore the Fathers counsel: act with discernment. Of two evils one chooses the lesser. If you are in private, take the poorest morsel, but if anyone is looking, you should take the middle way that arouses the least notice. Keep hidden and as inconspicuous as possible; in all circumstances let this be your rule. Do not talk about yourself, of how you slept, what you dreamed and what happened to you, do not state your views unasked, do not touch upon your own wants and concerns. All such talk only nourishes your self-preoccupation.”

The Way of the Ascetic by Tito Colliander

Question: What does it mean by not touching on your “wants and concerns” here?

I posted a thread a while back and I thought that wants and concerns were healthy and good if aligned with the Will of God. But, what if one that you are close to relationally treats you in contempt (e.g. significant other)... should one state their wants and concerns in that instance and would it not be self-preoccupation if it is to call out their sin in asstertivness (speaking the truth in love)?

 

[ArmyMatt]

yes you should, because treating you with contempt harms the soul of the other. it is therefore loving to correct them.

 

[SingularityOne]

yes you should, because treating you with contempt harms the soul of the other. it is therefore loving to correct them.

What does it mean when it is talking about wants and concerns here then?

Shouldn’t we pray for and bless the other and take on that suffering as Christ did, or do both/and?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Must sleep but I can say I've had a good bit of experience with learning to talk to someone who treats you badly, yet not focusing on my own hurt feelings (really it's an exercise at the same time trying to learn not to be hurt, because the root of it is usually pride or some other thing we don't want to feed) ... yet at the same time correcting the other for their own good. The two need to be separated, in my experience at least. And that can be very difficult to convey to another person. Especially when they assume that whatever you say, your motives ARE your own feelings (because that's their own experience, not to mention it was in fact always mine before I began working on this). It can take time to get them to understand that it is for God's sake (and our own souls) that we must not treat others badly.

At the same time, if I were mature enough, I could have thanked God for the mistreatment, I suppose, as an asceticism and means of helping to perfect myself (with God's help of course). But I am not that mature. Though I've certainly seen how God has grown me through many difficult circumstances and people, it is hard to appreciate a trial while we are in it.

The Way of the Ascetic is a fantastic book. I've read it many times, and it's covered with notes and highlights. But we have to remember that it's directed at monks, and some parts are not always exactly the same for us in the world. But we can always learn from the underlying principles.

Forgive me - I'm probably going on way too much. Quite exhausted. But this is something I've had a lot of chances to work on and think about. The outcome has been very good - amazingly good really (thanks be to God!). But it has been a process over a few years.

 

[HoleyHermit]

I would interpret it more as not nattering on about that new car you want or how you wish the neighbors kids tucked their shirts in. Stuff focused on ourselves that make up much of our small talk.

I think telling your brother that you want him to stop stabbing his fork into your hand is fine. He probably won’t like the taste of your hand anyway.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What does it mean when it is talking about wants and concerns here then?

Shouldn’t we pray for and bless the other and take on that suffering as Christ did, or do both/and?

both/and. Colliander's book is called The Way of the Ascetics for a reason, and sometimes he gets a little heavy handed.

 

[SingularityOne]

learning to talk to someone who treats you badly, yet not focusing on my own hurt feelings (really it's an exercise at the same time trying to learn not to be hurt, because the root of it is usually pride or some other thing we don't want to feed) ... yet at the same time correcting the other for their own good. The two need to be separated, in my experience at least.

How does one not mention hurt yet correct the other for their own good? I would say that speaking from an "I position" about wants and feelings, within relationships, is the best in establishing good boundaries, but I see you saying the opposite here if I'm hearing you correctly.

 

[SingularityOne]

I would interpret it more as not nattering on about that new car you want or how you wish the neighbors kids tucked their shirts in. Stuff focused on ourselves that make up much of our small talk.

I think telling your brother that you want him to stop stabbing his fork into your hand is fine. He probably won’t like the taste of your hand anyway.

Haha, yeah, I like the examples you used. That makes a bit more sense if looked at in that light.

 

[SingularityOne]

both/and. Colliander's book is called The Way of the Ascetics for a reason, and sometimes he gets a little heavy handed.

Ah, I see. So calling out the sin using our non-verbals and words, portraying our wants and needs, in relationship, that are in alignment with Christ's Will and leading the other to the Kingdom are ideal. As well, one should also bless those who revile him, endure persecution, and forgive when insulted alongside this assertive calling out of sin in meekness.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ah, I see. So calling out the sin using our non-verbals and words, portraying our wants and needs, in relationship, that are in alignment with Christ's Will and leading the other to the Kingdom are ideal. As well, one should also bless those who revile him, endure persecution, and forgive when insulted alongside this assertive calling out of sin in meekness.

sounds good to me.

 

[SingularityOne]

sounds good to me.

Gracias!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Gracias!

no probs!