Self-Defense

[Bluelion]

^^^My heart goes out to you. I had a rough childhood, but not to the extent of having a father or mother who beat me. That said, I've been in a few fights and my impression from my peers was always to fight back because fleeing was for cowards. That said:

1 John 3:16
By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

I dont know what to do with my kids. I dont want my son to be a wuss who gets picked on, pushed around, and does nothing...but this Scripture causes me to wonder if my desires are in the wrong.

But Jesus death had a purpose and produced good, great good in fact it was for us. Now jumping in front of a bullet or getting stabbed trying to protect some one is laying down your life for a person, but if your in a dark ally and some one is trying to harm you to ok I will just die is not right either it does no good, you lose your life for what. I think a person can fight back with control and stop when the threat is gone.

Remember the Golden rule do on to others. if I was to rob some one or attack them I would expect them to fight against me and I think they should because I am in the wrong. So i am doing on to others as I would have done to me. You can still love a person and knock them out. Think of it like this if your kid does wrong do you correct him? So why would you not correct some one else if you are loving them as your self you would correct them. Fighting back can be that correction.

My son went off on me one time for talking about God. We had to correct him with threats now we did not have to put into action like taking a way his xbox, but we had to correct him, why? Because if we did not he would think he could speak to people that way and we don't want him to do that, and if he did speak to people that way one day he will do it to the wrong person. Then they will correct him with either hurting him really bad or killing him. God corrects the wicked too sometimes with the wicked. Some times God uses us for that correction. That is the way i see it. Avoid a fight at all cost, but if you must fight be ready.

other topic
thanks for your compassion

My dad and Mom beat us with belts and really everything in the house, but I got it worse from my brother who was 6 years older than me. He was hitting me before i could speak. To this day i have never hit him, I even had a chance to really hurt him, but because I have never fought back to this day he still threatens me and my family. He is a coward and gets beat up everytime he fights anyone but me. He always come back to me because I won't hurt him. So that is what not fighting back can bring a life long torment. Bullies must be put down.

 

[98cwitr]

Why do we value physical life more than spiritual life? My answer is simply a lack of faith as big as a mustard seed.

As one who has had a troubled childhood, I really sympathize with you man. I pray for you and your family. Given that you are married I hope your wife is supportive and is a comforting solace. Sounds like she is.

 

[Bluelion]

Why do we value physical life more than spiritual life? My answer is simply a lack of faith as big as a mustard seed.

As one who has had a troubled childhood, I really sympathize with you man. I pray for you and your family. Given that you are married I hope your wife is supportive and is a comforting solace. Sounds like she is.

thank you and I am sorry you know about troubled family as well. My wife is great, she stuck by me when everyone else left, her family told her to run I was no good but she married me. We spend every waking moment with each other and is the only person i never get sick of no matter how much we are together. If we are apart for just an hour you would think it was years we miss each other that much. We live for God, each other and our kids.

I don't value this life at all, I literally hate this world and I find it very hard to live in. I dream of Heaven all the time it keeps me going. God always comes at the perfect time and whispers something in my ear to make me come alive again. I am sensitive to energy, so negative energy gets really bad for me, many times i want to die it get so bad, and that is when God gives me peace from it. Sin is the worse and i feel sin living in me. I am aware of my self dying each day, I feel the life draining from. God showed me what life was it is Him. Life is not in this world just a spark, and life will not return until Jesus comes back. I know i must go on for God and my family, so with God i endure. everything i love and value is in God. I look to God, and long for the day when suffering will be taken away, but I am thankful for this time, because i have had enough sin that i know i never want to even be near it ever again. I am grateful for the lessons God teaches, but I do not value or even think this world is life.

 

[cardoctor]

A few things I would add:

The Evil Man:
It's easy to categorize the world into good and bad people but the truth is, the guy trying to steal my car or mug me, based on every study I've read, genuinely believes he has no choice. The man committing a rape, or a home invasion is lost, depraved, perverted by sin.

What separates me from him is the GRACE of God, not anything I have done. So, I am commanded that "In as much as it is up to me, live a peace with all men" I also should "repay evil with good and thereby heap coals of fire upon his head". The bible is clear here

Brokenness:
This world is broken and there are choices where both options are against God's word. CS Lewis aptly called this "dust". So if you are hiding a family of Jews beneath your floor board In WWII Germany, eventually, SS officers will come to your door and ask if you are hiding Jews. You can either bare false witness and protect the Jews you are hiding or you can be complicit in their murder and tell the truth.
Neither option has a PERFECT biblical, or moral basis But one has a biblical and moral SUPERIORITY

The Governement:
It is biblical that "the government is established by God" and "holds the sword" Here in the people's republic of Virginia, common law returns the sword to the people in matters of self defense. In fact my concealed carry permit required that I promise to become a "conservator of the peace" and so when the peace is disturbed, as part of my civic duty I will do what is both biblical and moral to restore peace.

It is not hypocritical that the government be called to enforce it's laws and swing the sword when needed and it is right, in my estimation that in every day matters since my state has allowed me to use deadly force in the defense of others.

My Personal Answer
I carry a concealed handgun, I would never defend myself or my property. I will only ever employ deadly force when the tragedy of the "evil man's" death is lesser than the tragedy of the crime he stood to commit. These tragedies only include attacks on people, never attacks on property or concepts

So, if I am watching a potential rape I will intervene with as little force a possible, but as much force as it takes. If that means putting shots down range, I won't hesitate to do so. Afterwards I will pray and cry and throw up but I will sleep tight knowing I did what I know to be right in God's eyes (always happy to be proved wrong)

If, on the other hand, a convenience store is being robbed while I'm in it; I will not intervene unless another crime appears imminent (like killing the clerk) because the tragedy of losing a few bucks doesn't approach the loss of any man's life.

 

[Alithis]

Think about your sister or your daughter! If a gang of degenerates were beating her, ripping her clothes off, and about to sexually assault her and there was a police officer who came upon this WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE HIM DO?

Lets say there was no police officer nearby but a civilian, a citizen, came upon that situation WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE HIM DO? (CALL THE POLICE AND WATCH???)

Jesus said do unto others as you would have done unto you right? Well what would you want for your daughter or sister in that situation? I'd want mine to be carrying a Handgun and to be able to defend herself.

I carry a handgun and I have a AR-15 at home which I keep for home defense purposes. The irony is that this has ACTUALLY kept me from having to defend myself!!!! My sister disconnected my brakes 3 times and attempted to do it a 4th time but by that time I had put an alarm in. This was over an argument we got into about abortion. She lost the debate and decided to try and kill me.

Why didn't she try to jump me with her friends and stab me? (She has threatened to stab me many many times) I am guessing because back when we were getting along she saw my collection. She not only knew I had a carry permit but also saw the AK I kept propped up in the corner of my room next to the bed. (Safety on and pointed in a safe direction, furthermore I lock up my Rifles and usually only keep one out when I am home, when leaving I'll lock it up. I am always anal about safety)

She also saw my traditionally forged Katana. She was shown that to and the knives she has (A Ka-Bar and a CRKT Neck Knife) where given to her by me. She has also seen my 5 inch long 3 inch thick Gerber fixed blade and the homemade rig I made so that the sheath would hang concealed under my shirt right by my kidney.

I actually have been known to give people weapons for free when they are in desperate situations. In the case of my sister, when I gave her the knives, she had just left an extremely violent and abusive husband and took the kid.

Why were two swords enough for the apostles? BECAUSE THAT WOULD KEEP THEM FROM BEING ROBBED! Most criminals are cowards! (Most).

"some trust in chariots and some in horses but we will trust in the name of the lord Our God "

some trust in physical defense arts and some trust in firearms but We will trust in the name of the lord our God .

what did the apostles do when Stephen was being stoned ?
------------------
in nz a few years back there was a serial rapist ..i think it ended when he confessed to 129 offenses
there was a case of one woman whose house and room he entered but did not assault .. she was a christian who spoke to him in the name of Jesus ..he backed off and left her unharmed .. -food for thought .

 

[Alithis]

why do people think turning the other cheek means standing there and letting someone hit you .. haha thats unnatural .

you going to raise your amrs up and covber yourself .. push away .attempt escape etc ..you cant help it ..

turning the other cheek is about forgiveness its about not seeking vengeance .
and this is where martial arts is simply unchristian.

 

[Lollerskates]

why do people think turning the other cheek means standing there and letting someone hit you .. haha thats unnatural .

you going to raise your amrs up and covber yourself .. push away .attempt escape etc ..you cant help it ..

turning the other cheek is about forgiveness its about not seeking vengeance .
and this is where martial arts is simply unchristian.

I agree. Mercy and forgiveness, not vengence as you said. That was one of the points He was trying to get blind followers of the law to understand. Judgement has a process: mercy and understanding, then Judgment. Jesus was talking about the most minute things, but he was really talking about deep spiritual things (like if a prophecy says we may be held captive, don't unnecessarily fight it.)

In everyday life, if someone aggresses you, you have the right to defend yourself. Self-defense is an inherent thing among all creatures. The stylizing and mastery of these defenses is what is colloquially known as self-denfese. It is just a higher degree of a defense mechanism. I will not turn the other cheek if someone tries to break my face with a pint glass at a bar - unprovoked. I will 1) defend myself and, 2) neutralize the aggressor up until there is no threat.

I am a martial artist, and most people are surprised to find out that (besides sparring,) most martial artists don't fight. Self defense/martial arts is a bunch about disciplining yourself in a way so that you don't have to use "martial arts." And, if you do, you can stop someone without too much damage. Disciplined martial artists have walked away from more ignorant idiots than they have fought fights. There is nothing wrong with defending yourself. The disciples had weapons on their hips.

 

[Alithis]

i used to do martial arts ... i want nothing of it now .not in my being nor in my flesh .
but only JESUS and HIM GLORIFIED ..it is a waste of time of life .it profits little and gives not glory to the lord JESUS (though some individuals do )the arts do not .

 

[Blessedj01]

As a Judoka, I see martial arts as a valuable skill, like anything else a man can become proficient at.

I see it as an opportunity to demonstrate grace and possibly even witness.

I think it can be offered to God as an act of worship, especially if it is one of your talents.

Anything and everything can have the potential to steal glory from God. The choice is ours, what we make of things.

I also think that you must live your life, God designed us to have balance and it's not all work and no play.

Lastly even though there is much more I could say on this, I think it is commendable that a man learn to defend himself and his family. If your motivations are good, I see no problem with having these skills.

And just for the record, I have been a victim of a group attack that nearly resulted in me getting killed. I survived in part due to my judo instincts. I thank God and I consider it to be a gift that I learned what I did.

I think we should lighten up...God is a King with an Army and he created men to be men. While he is the Prince of Peace, he also created the lions and the tigers. "Gird yourself like a man," while not strictly applying to this context, I do take from God's character that He is a virtuous warrior and I don't see anything wrong with humans being those too. He doesn't want us living paranoid lives.

...but if God has spoken to you that way, I will not argue with it.

 

[Lollerskates]

i used to do martial arts ... i want nothing of it now .not in my being nor in my flesh .
but only JESUS and HIM GLORIFIED ..it is a waste of time of life .it profits little and gives not glory to the lord JESUS (though some individuals do )the arts do not .

Our Father taught me martial arts so much so that my sparring partners "swear" I am a 2nd or 3rd dan in my art. He literally taught me. There were times where I was "supposed" to do certain katas, but I wanted to show off (against His will,) and He mildly corrects me with a slight muscle pull, or a slip, or whatever. Everyone already knows martial arts, because everyone can melee. Street fighting is a martial art. Ninjutsu is a martial art too. The thing that makes martial arts dangerous for people of faith (especially monotheistic faiths) is that many martial arts have a philosophy attached to it that "teaches" toward enlightenment and mastery of the art. This philosophy is usually synonymous with a religion, or is at least abrasive to one's faith if it is part of the aforementioned.

But, our Father can "teach your hands to war" (Psalm 144:1) if He wants to, and if you ask Him. You don't need to go to a dojo or martial art retreat for guidance. But, it can be a good experience to meet disciplined people; you don't have to compromise any part of your spirituality.

 

[Alithis]

As a Judoka, I see martial arts as a valuable skill, like anything else a man can become proficient at.

I see it as an opportunity to demonstrate grace and possibly even witness.

I think it can be offered to God as an act of worship, especially if it is one of your talents.

Anything and everything can have the potential to steal glory from God. The choice is ours, what we make of things.

I also think that you must live your life, God designed us to have balance and it's not all work and no play.

Lastly even though there is much more I could say on this, I think it is commendable that a man learn to defend himself and his family. If your motivations are good, I see no problem with having these skills.

And just for the record, I have been a victim of a group attack that nearly resulted in me getting killed. I survived in part due to my judo instincts. I thank God and I consider it to be a gift that I learned what I did.

I think we should lighten up...God is a King with an Army and he created men to be men. While he is the Prince of Peace, he also created the lions and the tigers. "Gird yourself like a man," while not strictly applying to this context, I do take from God's character that He is a virtuous warrior and I don't see anything wrong with humans being those too. He doesn't want us living paranoid lives.

...but if God has spoken to you that way, I will not argue with it.

Our Father taught me martial arts so much so that my sparring partners "swear" I am a 2nd or 3rd dan in my art. He literally taught me. There were times where I was "supposed" to do certain katas, but I wanted to show off (against His will,) and He mildly corrects me with a slight muscle pull, or a slip, or whatever. Everyone already knows martial arts, because everyone can melee. Street fighting is a martial art. Ninjutsu is a martial art too. The thing that makes martial arts dangerous for people of faith (especially monotheistic faiths) is that many martial arts have a philosophy attached to it that "teaches" toward enlightenment and mastery of the art. This philosophy is usually synonymous with a religion, or is at least abrasive to one's faith if it is part of the aforementioned.

But, our Father can "teach your hands to war" (Psalm 144:1) if He wants to, and if you ask Him. You don't need to go to a dojo or martial art retreat for guidance. But, it can be a good experience to meet disciplined people; you don't have to compromise any part of your spirituality.

from outside looking in,i see two worldview stances.two advocates but not for the Gospel.the wisdom of man is foolishness.i sound harsh.but i know.anything of this carnal flesh wars against the Spirit .so while i see the points you use to excuse the promotion of it i do not personally accept them.
the Lord will/is talk (ing)to your hearts in his time and as you follow Jesus you will find,in doing so,he will lead you out of it and you will look back at what you valued and wonder why you did.seeing your heart reset on things above rather then things of this world.and m-a,is a thing of this world.

 

[Lollerskates]

from outside looking in,i see two worldview stances.two advocates but not for the Gospel.the wisdom of man is foolishness.i sound harsh.but i know.anything of this carnal flesh wars against the Spirit .so while i see the points you use to excuse the promotion of it i do not personally accept them.
the Lord will/is talk (ing)to your hearts in his time and as you follow Jesus you will find,in doing so,he will lead you out of it and you will look back at what you valued and wonder why you did.seeing your heart reset on things above rather then things of this world.and m-a,is a thing of this world.

Let me be clear: our Father taught me martial arts. I am with you on worldly martial arts with their attached philosophies is very abrasive. I didn't do that. I am testifying that God will actually "train" you if you let Him/believe it. He did it for me. I didn't take on any extra philosophy, or any esoteric rituals. He taught me like He taught David. I believe that because as I said my sparring partners swear by it (not even me,) and our Father disciplined and trained me just as a "dojo master" would train a martial artist.

If you really want to learn martial arts ask our Father. I am a testament to how He will/can teach you everything you need to learn and more - especially the discipline and patience. I haven't had a fight (besides sparring) since I was 12; you learn from our Father to pick your battles.

 

[Blessedj01]

from outside looking in,i see two worldview stances.two advocates but not for the Gospel.the wisdom of man is foolishness.i sound harsh.but i know.anything of this carnal flesh wars against the Spirit .so while i see the points you use to excuse the promotion of it i do not personally accept them.
the Lord will/is talk (ing)to your hearts in his time and as you follow Jesus you will find,in doing so,he will lead you out of it and you will look back at what you valued and wonder why you did.seeing your heart reset on things above rather then things of this world.and m-a,is a thing of this world.

With all due respect, I'm not sure what your objection towards martial arts actually is. Can you please explain what makes the peaceful pursuit of non-religious martial arts any more worldly than any other activity, including the perusal of this forum?

We are taught to be in this world but not of this world, I don't take that to mean we must disengage with all things of the world as that would be impossible. It's not consistent with what God seems to have intended, which is for our lives to be lived to the fullest.

I just feel that martial arts (even more particularly when treated as a sport or for self-defense and removed from thuggery) can be reconciled with the rest of our Christian lives. We must find ways to reconcile all good things to our witness, surely this is possible?

I just feel like the same God who had Adam walking with lions in the Garden of Eden would not have a problem with me "playing" Judo with my friends. As a child I naturally wrestled with my friends and there's no reason that can't carry on as an adult. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ for my Judo. If only for the breakfall techniques - those have probably literally saved my life.