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Seems Pretty Clear

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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[SIZE=-1]Well, it's about people who abandon their natural relations. People abandon their natural relations when they try to go against their sexual orientation. For example, a heterosexual having homosexual sex (like in that example from the Bible), or a homosexual having heterosexual sex, is abandoning their natural relations. If a person has always been homosexual, then they haven't abandoned anything[/SIZE].

WRONG! There is no plural personal pronoun in the verse. It reads "THE natural use" NOT "their natural use." This was clearly understood and taught by the Greek speaking early church.
Clement of Alexandria The Instructor - Pedagogos Book 3
Chapter 3
Against Men Who Embellish Themselves [153 - 217 AD]


Such was predicted of old, and the result is notorious: the whole earth has now become full of fornication and wickedness. I admire the ancient legislators of the Romans: these detested effeminacy of conduct; and the giving of the body to feminine purposes, contrary to the law of nature, they judged worthy of the extremest penalty, according to the righteousness of the law.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Tertullian The Chaplet, or De Corona. Chapter VI. [145-220 AD]

Demanding then a law of God, you have that common one [law] prevailing all over the world, engraven on the natural tables to which the apostle too is wont to appeal, as when in respect. of the woman's veil he says, "Does not even Nature teach you? " -as when to the Romans, affirming that the heathen do by nature those things which the law requires, he suggests both natural law and a law-revealing nature. Yes, and also in the first chapter of the epistle [Rom 1.] he authenticates nature, when he asserts that males and females changed among themselves the natural use of the creature into that which is unnatural, by way of penal retribution for their error. [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.vi.html

Tertullian VII. On Modesty.[sup]1[/sup] Chapter IV.-Adultery and Fornication Synonymous.

Accordingly, among us, secret connections as well-connections, that is, not first professed in presence of the Church-run risk of being judged akin to adultery and fornication; nor must we let them, if thereafter woven together by the covering of marriage, elude the charge. But all the other frenzies of passions-impious both toward the bodies and toward the sexes-beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html
 
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TheFathersDaughter

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And I suppose you're perfect eh?

You can't go up to a homosexual and say "you're going to hell unless you repent" until you, yourself, are perfect.

I'll say it again: NO RIGHT TO JUDGE. We're only humans. We can't go around judging people, putting people down and condemning people (if you say anything negative towards a person, it's called condemning) because we're all equal in sin.

Therefore DMagoh, I'll turn the question around. How do you plan to explain to God why you tried to play the judge?
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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[SIZE=-1]Even if you're right, do you think that God is going to be evil towards people just because they were wrong about something? [/SIZE]:confused:

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity​
.
 
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Der Alte

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First you say this.

[SIZE=-1]And I suppose you're perfect eh?[/SIZE]

Then you contradict and condemn yourself by saying this.
[SIZE=-1]I'll say it again: NO RIGHT TO JUDGE. We're only humans. We can't go around judging people, putting people down and condemning people (if you say anything negative towards a person, it's called condemning) . . .[/SIZE]

Isn't accusing someone of thinking they are perfect, saying something negative and condemning them? Pot-kettle, log in eye?
 
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DMagoh

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And I suppose you're perfect eh?

You can't go up to a homosexual and say "you're going to hell unless you repent" until you, yourself, are perfect.

I'll say it again: NO RIGHT TO JUDGE. We're only humans. We can't go around judging people, putting people down and condemning people (if you say anything negative towards a person, it's called condemning) because we're all equal in sin.

Wow, you just said something negative towards me, which means you condemned me, which means you judged me. I'm just using your words (see above).

I guess when YOU do it, you are only teaching me and showing me the light?
 
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TheFathersDaughter

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Wow, you just said something negative towards me, which means you condemned me, which means you judged me. I'm just using your words (see above).

I guess when YOU do it, you are only teaching me and showing me the light?

Ai, but did I do anything but show you what you were doing?

There's a difference between you and me. I'll admit I'm imperfect and you'll admit I'm imperfect. I realize that I have issues and I try to work them out but it's rather difficult when other Christians practice it like God had commanded them to do so. Contradicting? Perhaps. But at least I'll admit to it. Unlike you who will not admit to it and instead proceed to call ME on it.

It is better to find one fault in yourself than a thousand in others.
 
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DMagoh

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There's a difference between you and me. I'll admit I'm imperfect and you'll admit I'm imperfect. I realize that I have issues and I try to work them out but it's rather difficult when other Christians practice it like God had commanded them to do so. Contradicting? Perhaps. But at least I'll admit to it. Unlike you who will not admit to it and instead proceed to call ME on it.

Please quote me where I have said I was perfect. I will be waiting....

While I wait, let me make sure I get this right - I cant tell someone they are doing something wrong because it is judging. You CAN tell me I'm doing something wrong because, even though it's a contradiction and you are judging me, you admit to not being perfect.

You have powerful rationalization skills.
 
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DMagoh

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[/color][/b]You tell me, DMagoh.

Do you believe the world was created in seven literal, 24-hour days?

Do you believe in a literal Adam and Eve?

Do you believe that Eve got into a conversation with a literal talking snake who convinced Eve to eat some fruit and that's how sin entered into the world?

Do you believe that a 480-foot ziggurat crashed to the ground during a windstorm and that's why we have a plethora of languages?

Do you believe in dragons?

Do you believe in sea monsters?

Do you believe that the sun, the moon and the stars were hung in the sky?

Do you believe the earth has four corners?

Do you believe the sun, the moon, the planets and the stars revolve around the earth?

Do you believe that the sun and the moon stopped revolving around the earth for a day so that Joshua could win a battle?

[/color][/b]


Here's my question for you, or anyone else really... is Jesus a liar or deceiver? Because if the story in the Bible about Noah's Ark never occurred, then Jesus is a liar and deceiver. In Luke, Jesus said...

26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. Luke 17:26-27

So, did it happen, or are you calling Jesus a liar and deceiver?
 
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TheFathersDaughter

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Please quote me where I have said I was perfect. I will be waiting....

While I wait, let me make sure I get this right - I cant tell someone they are doing something wrong because it is judging. You CAN tell me I'm doing something wrong because, even though it's a contradiction and you are judging me, you admit to not being perfect.

You have powerful rationalization skills.
I don't believe you understand. I realize that it may be hypocritical, but things need to be said. I never condemned you in the process at the very least. I merely pointed it out. THAT is the different. To point out where it is not someones place is one thing. But to try to convince a person they're destined to hell is a different thing all together. You never said you were perfect but that's the thing about literalism, implications, sarcasm and symbolism apparently don't mean anything.

I learned in 9th grade that life can't be literal. So maybe start practicing how you imply things and stop taking all things so literally. Because anyone who takes things literally can't believe in God. The Bible is full of symbolism, even where you least expect to find it. And God, well, maybe if you listened to Him a little more, He would explain some of it. To think that you can just follow the Bible is a complete contradiction.

If all you needed to follow Christ was a Bible, this long and narrow road I keep hearing about wouldn't excuse. The Bible would make the road just as simple as the road to hell if it were supposed to be taken at face value. We have to exert our faith and defend it. You only have two hands. You can't carry two swords and shield. So you either choose between the sword to destroy others and the sword to defend Christ. If your words hurt someone, it isn't your place and you've picked up the wrong sword. I keep hearing that God will punish them. He will, but it won't be on Earth. If even God will not condemn them until it is their time to die, why should we?
 
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ReformedChapin

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I don't believe you understand. I realize that it may be hypocritical, but things need to be said. I never condemned you in the process at the very least. I merely pointed it out. THAT is the different. To point out where it is not someones place is one thing. But to try to convince a person they're destined to hell is a different thing all together. You never said you were perfect but that's the thing about literalism, implications, sarcasm and symbolism apparently don't mean anything.

I learned in 9th grade that life can't be literal. So maybe start practicing how you imply things and stop taking all things so literally. Because anyone who takes things literally can't believe in God. The Bible is full of symbolism, even where you least expect to find it. And God, well, maybe if you listened to Him a little more, He would explain some of it. To think that you can just follow the Bible is a complete contradiction.

If all you needed to follow Christ was a Bible, this long and narrow road I keep hearing about wouldn't excuse. The Bible would make the road just as simple as the road to hell if it were supposed to be taken at face value. We have to exert our faith and defend it. You only have two hands. You can't carry two swords and shield. So you either choose between the sword to destroy others and the sword to defend Christ. If your words hurt someone, it isn't your place and you've picked up the wrong sword. I keep hearing that God will punish them. He will, but it won't be on Earth. If even God will not condemn them until it is their time to die, why should we?
People must feel emotional pain sometimes to work. Do you think that the Pharasies felt good when God called them hypocrites, brute of vipers? Nope.

The sword is the living word of God and it must be used against evil. It will hurt, but it must be done we are commanded to do so.
 
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