Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
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Gr8Grace said: ↑
When we as believers become lost(out of fellowship with the Lord) and rebound(1 John 1:9)
It is sheer arrogance to claim what anyone else believes, esp when that other person has been crystal clear about what he believes about that verse.
The key to understanding 1 John 1 is "fellowship", mentioned 4 times. It's those who refuse to accept the principle of fellowship (like yourself) who DON'T BELIEVE the verse.
Actively opposing what Jesus teaches is demonic.
Jesus taught that those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish in John 10:28.
Why don't you believe what Jesus taught?
Jesus taught that those He gives eternal life shall never, no, not ever, perish in John 10:28.
Why don't you believe what Jesus taught?
Except that they did leave. The very words "came back" tell you they left. But I guess of you are trying to prove your point truth is not necessary.that's my point
if they came back, then they never really left
Bump.Why do YOU persist in believing this cannot happen?
I've listed enough scripture...
I've listed statements from those who either knew Jesus or someone who knew those that learned from the Apostles.
You, OTOH, prefer to believe Mr. John Calvin.
I prefer to believe the bible.
Ephesians 1:13-14
13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
I thought you knew about exegesis...
You don't take ONE verse or even more, that go against the general idea given in scripture. Vague verses do NOT take precedence over clear verses.
What does sealed mean? We can be sealed with the Holy Spirit...
We can be unsealed from the Holy Spirit due to all the verses I've listed above which prove eternal security is NOT correct or biblical.
We are sealed by the Holy Spirit IN HIM..as it states.
If we are NOT IN HIM...we are no longer sealed.
The Holy Spirit is given as a PLEDGE of our inheritance, with a VIEW to our redemption.
And why do you accept the word BELIEVED above as meaning that one is saved due to belief...
When you DO NOT accept that the word BELIEVE in Luke 8:13 AND USED BY JESUS HIMSELF,,,does NOT mean that the person was saved FOR A WHILE?
Could you explain that please?
Many inconsistencies with the OSAS crowd.
I think the difference is our perspective at how we look at things.Except that they did leave. The very words "came back" tell you they left. But I guess of you are trying to prove your point truth is not necessary.
I believe once you have been judged saved you will always be saved. But that does not happen in earthly life.
That could be. But some don't ever come back.that's my point
if they came back, then they never really left
The Bible does not say we can be unsealed.Bump.
The Holy Spirit is given as a pledge of our inheritance.
If we do NOT have the Holy Spirit, we no longer have the pledge for our future inheritance.
(I forgot the second sentence before).
Also, could you please explain why BELIEVE in Luke 8:13, as spoken by JESUS, is not acceptable to you because you insist that person was not saved...
BUT, BELIEVE in John 10:26 you DO accept because it suits your purpose of proving that the person IS saved.
John 10:26 Those who do not believe are not of Jesus...
John 10:27-28 Those who DO believe are saved by Jesus...
So then also the ones in Luke 8:13 who DO believe, as per Jesus are also saved by Jesus, even though you don't want to accept this.
You receive the gift of eternal life at the end of your life.This is actually delusional. I've shared very clear verses about our security. From the moment of faith in Christ, when we receive the gift of eternal life.
Jesus spoke the way HE spoke,,,He doesn't need any help from you.OK. Now, what did Jesus say about those He gives eternal life?
They shall never, no, not ever, perish.
Do you believe what Jesus said?
If it were possible for a sealed believer to become unsealed, then Jesus would have included that exclusion in John 10:28.
So, how many exclusions did He include in His verse on the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life?
btw, how come you didn't comment on my color coded explanation of John 10:28? I thought it was clear enough, esp with the colors.
Oooh. You're still a young guy!The Bible does not say we can be unsealed.
That is your interpretation, your opinion, and I don't believe God holds your opinion or my opinion against us, because he's bigger than that.
In case you didn't know, I'm 68 years hold and have a problem staying concentrated on things.
I tend to skip using verses because I can't remember where they are as I use to.
The fact is in the past, I've given you all the Scripture to back up my point but you refuse to except it.
You receive the gift of eternal life at the end of your life.
For now you are just promised the gift of eternal life...
depending on how you live your life.
When you back up Yahweh's point with Yahweh's Word, I LOVE THIS (same when other Ekklesia do also) !Oooh. You're still a young guy!
I can help you with the verses on the sealing.
I can explain to you why they don't mean what the OSAS crowd THINK it means.
This is NOT MY idea. Most churches do NOT believe in OSAS.
Be back in a little...
Actually, every church I've been in for 33 1/2 years is OSAS, only not the way you see it.Oooh. You're still a young guy!
I can help you with the verses on the sealing.
I can explain to you why they don't mean what the OSAS crowd THINK it means.
This is NOT MY idea. Most churches do NOT believe in OSAS.
Be back in a little...
First, address my color coded points about John 10:28.Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
False premise.Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
have you stopped beating your wife yet?Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
Right.This is something most people miss (on purpose?!) .
Notice throughout Scripture how many times it is written "WILL BE SAVED" (like if we endure to the end we WILL BE SAVED.
Other Verses that are not so obvious with "WILL BE", pulled out of context, have allowed some false teachers to deceive others into thinking they are already eternally saved even if they flagrantly and perniciously oppose Yahweh and reject Jesus ! How can this be?!
Maybe tickled ears are more powerful than the truth, when people are unwilling to believe Jesus ?
Actually, every church I've been in for 33 1/2 years is OSAS, only not the way you see it.
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