Seeking to learn more about Christianity

umbrabates

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I am not a Christian, but I am here to learn more about Christianity. I was raised Catholic, but I have lost my faith and I now consider myself an atheist. However, I still enjoy exploring the topic of religion. I respect theists, the diversity of ways which people try to find the divine, and the right of people to choose to worship how they wish or not worship at all.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am conducting research for a novel about the afterlife. I am interested especially in learning more about evangelical Christianity, Pentacostalism, Baptists, and Calvinism. These faiths seem very different from the Catholicism I was raised with.
 

Christie insb

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Wat cool! One of the things I don't like is books by people who think they know about Christianity, but they just don't. I am not a Calvinist but I have been around the theological block a couple of times. Do you have any specific areas of interest?
 
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Basil the Great

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Evangelical Protestantism is in many ways much different than Catholicism, whereas the Mainline Protestant Denominations like Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian and United Methodist are somewhat closer, though not by a wide margin. As far as the afterlife, as you might recall, the Catholic Church teaches that Purgatory exists for the souls who die without any unconfessed mortal/grave sins, but who were otherwise either members of the visible Catholic Church or were unknowingly members of the Catholic Church, via the doctrine of "invincible ignorance". I will not bother to explain said doctrine now. You can look into it if you wish. It is through this doctrine of "invincible ignorance" that the Catholic Church believes than non-Catholic Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others still have a chance to go to Heaven.

However, while a few Catholics in C. F. might disagree with me, as I understand it, "invincible ignorance" does NOT apply to ex-Catholics. The one likely exception is probably if a baby is baptized a Catholic, but then leaves the Church before the age of reason, through no fault of their own. Another potential exception, but by no means certain, is perhaps for those who get baptized and receive their first Communion, but are then taken out of the Church by their parents, prior to receiving the Sacrament of Confirmation. However, as to those who get baptized, receive first Communion and then get confirmed, upon which they later leave the fold, I simply see no way that the doctrine of "invincible ignorance" could ever apply, at least this is how I read the Church's current interpretation of the ancient EENS salvation doctrine, "Outside the Church, There is no Salvation". So what does this mean..... Well, if you ever become convinced that you want to become a Christian again, I guess to be on the safe side, just in case the Catholic Church is correct and they are the Church founded by Jesus for the salvation of mankind and that "invincible ignorance" does not apply to ex-Catholics, you might want to seriously consider reconciling yourself with Mother Church? (How is that for a shocker of a statement coming from a life-long Protestant?)

Now no Protestant body accepts the teaching of Purgatory and neither does the Eastern Orthodox Church, even though they are much closer to the Catholic Church than any of the Protestant denominations. The Eastern Orthodox very much believe in praying for the souls of the dead, but they do not pretend to know how their prayers actually help the deceased. Very few Protestants believe in praying for the dead. I am a rare exception to that rule it would appear and perhaps that is because I suspect that some form of an Intermediate State might exist, though the way Purgatory is described does not sound right to me, especially as it is connected to indulgences. It should be pointed out that Martin Luther did admit that praying once or twice for the dead was acceptable. However, to the best of my knowledge and belief, few U.S. Lutherans pray for the dead, but I cannot speak for the Lutherans in Europe.

Hence, the major difference between all Protestant bodies and the Catholic Church, in regards to the afterlife, is that Protestants say you go to Heaven or Hell after death, whereas Catholics are at least suppose to say that one goes to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory and since there are apparently few Christians who attain sainthood, the presumption is that most saved souls must first go to Purgatory. I am not an Evangelical Protestant, so I will let one or more of them respond in detail, if they wish. However, I will add that one of the main differences between many of them and the so-called Mainline Protestant bodies deals with the doctrine of "once saved, always saved". Many of the Evangelicals believe that a true Christian never loses their salvation, whereas Lutherans, Episcopalians, United Methodists and Presbyterians do not accept this doctrine and believe that it is possible for a Christian turn their back on the faith and lose their salvation.
 
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umbrabates

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Do you have any specific areas of interest?

A little bit. Obviously, the afterlife belief is part of it, but really not a big part. Some conversations that will take place will be about Prosperity, man's place in the world especially regarding animal rights, how people choose right and wrong -- basic moral issues, the big hot-button topics (homosexuality, abortion, divorce). Really, I think one big question will be are any of these belief systems right? Are they all right? What difference does it make? I guess that's a big question. Does it make a difference? How much does it matter if I'm a Calvinist or a Lutheran or Pentecostal or a Baptist? How does that influence the decisions I make in life? How will it effect my standing in the next life?
 
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Basil the Great

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The #1 distinguishing characteristic of Baptists is that they do not practice infant Baptism. They believe that one should only be baptized when they reach an age at which they can make a commitment to Jesus and have decided to accept Christ as Savior.

The #1 characteristic that Pentecostals are known for is that they believe God still sends Christians the gift of speaking in tongues. (refer to the Book of Acts in the New Testament on the Day of Pentecost)
 
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Basil the Great

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A little bit. Obviously, the afterlife belief is part of it, but really not a big part. Some conversations that will take place will be about Prosperity, man's place in the world especially regarding animal rights, how people choose right and wrong -- basic moral issues, the big hot-button topics (homosexuality, abortion, divorce). Really, I think one big question will be are any of these belief systems right? Are they all right? What difference does it make? I guess that's a big question. Does it make a difference? How much does it matter if I'm a Calvinist or a Lutheran or Pentecostal or a Baptist? How does that influence the decisions I make in life? How will it effect my standing in the next life?
It is hard to say exactly how to respond to your question about how much difference does it make from one Protestant body to another? Many Protestants would say that it makes little, if any difference. However, some would say that it is very important that you belong to a "Bible believing Church" as they often refer to it. In other words, many of the Evangelicals and Pentecostals and probably almost all of the Fundamentalists are suspicious of some of the Mainline Protestant denominations, especially those that have accepted the validity of gay marriage and the ordination of gay pastors in active relationships. Thus far the United Church of Christ, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the Episcopal Church fall into this category. While the United Methodist Church has not done so yet, many believe that such will either come to the denomination within a few years or that it will split into two bodies - one for and one against allowing gay marriage and the ordination of actively gay pastors. I should point out that if you like the idea of a Protestant group that emphasizes the Eucharist, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod would be such a group. However, they are quite conservative and are in some ways a lot like Evangelicals and Fundamentalists, at least in terms of believing the Bible in a more literal manner.
 
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umbrabates

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While the United Methodist Church has not done so yet, many believe that such will either come to the denomination within a few years or that it will split into two bodies - one for and one against allowing gay marriage and the ordination of actively gay pastors.

To me, and to some Catholics I've spoken with, this seems to be a weakness within Protestantism. As one Catholic put it, disagreement in the church? Poof! Now, we have two churches!

It's as though to say, there is no one universal truth, there is no right or wrong. Like a smorgasbord, you just have to find a church that confirms what you think is right, rather than find a church that preaches the truth, even when it's hard to hear.

Or is it a strength? In that the infinite diversity of humanity is reflected in the diversity of Protestant churches?

How do you feel about that?
 
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Basil the Great

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How will your standing in the next life be impacted? This goes back to my previous answer. Most of those belonging to the more Liberal Mainline Protestant bodies would say that it makes little or no difference, whereas the more Conservative Protestant groups, like the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Lutheran Church Wisconsin Synod, any of the more conservative Presbyterian groups and then the Evangelical and Fundamentalists would all tell you that it is important to belong to a "Bible believing church", as such will help to safeguard your salvation. As to the Eastern Orthodox, whom you have not mentioned and I find that interesting, since you were raised Catholic, the Orthodox believe that they are the Church founded by Jesus for the salvation of mankind and that a Christian's best chance for salvation lies within their Church. However, they do not exclude the possibility that Catholics and Protestants and Oriental Orthodox Christians may still be saved. The Eastern Orthodox share many beliefs with the Catholic Church, though there are a few key differences, as well as some probably less important. Personally, I believe that their claim to be the Church founded by Christ is just as strong as that of the Catholic Church, if not even stronger.
 
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umbrabates

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Your book will present points of view of the various denominations, categories, structures? With all due respect, that is not the road to understanding the Christian Faith. My apology if I misunderstood.

Not just Christianity, but Buddhism, Islam, and other belief systems as well, including atheism. I am here specifically to learn more about Christianity since, well, you know... this Christian Forums.

So, yes, many different Christians will find themselves together with people of other faiths, and of no faith, and they will travel in a liminal type of limbo, similar to the darkened wood of Dante's Inferno, and try to find the path to their eternal rest. I would think in this way, through the very frank discussions that take place, it would be a good forum to learn about Christianity, how it differs from other beliefs, and why that's important.
 
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Basil the Great

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To me, and to some Catholics I've spoken with, this seems to be a weakness within Protestantism. As one Catholic put it, disagreement in the church? Poof! Now, we have two churches!

It's as though to say, there is no one universal truth, there is no right or wrong. Like a smorgasbord, you just have to find a church that confirms what you think is right, rather than find a church that preaches the truth, even when it's hard to hear.

Or is it a strength? In that the infinite diversity of humanity is reflected in the diversity of Protestant churches?

How do you feel about that?
You ask an interesting question, do you not? Yes, Martin Luther opened up a Pandora's Box when he emphasized the right of as Christian to read the Bible himself, for obviously this was going to end up with many different groups. Why? The Bible can be interpreted in countless ways. I will say that in theory, the strength of the Catholic Church is that it teaches with authority. If you can accept that authority, one should be more at peace and more secure, etc. You do not have to think for yourself as much as you do in Protestantism. My problem is two fold with the Catholic Church. First, some of the sins that they call mortal/grave, do not meet the test of human reason, in my view. Second, I cannot get by the fact that for six centuries, Holy Mother Church sanctioned the use of physical force, aka torture, in the Office of the Holy Inquisition. To me, such disproves their doctrine of the Infallibility of the Ordinary Magisterium and if that doctrine fails, then of how much value is the doctrine of the Infallibility of the Pope when he speaks, ex cathedra, on faith and morals for all Christians?

Is it a strength or a weakness, the diversity within the Protestant ecclesiastical communities, a term you may or may not remember? I suppose that is hard to say. If indeed a person can be saved by joining any one of the Protestant bodies, so long as they live a life free of unconfessed grave sin and one that is merciful to the poor, as Jesus emphasized, then perhaps on balance the diversity of the scores of Protestant groups is a plus, as they reach people with a wide diversity of views. However, if it is true that either the Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church is the Church founded by Jesus for the salvation of mankind and that salvation is best secured by the seven sacraments found within their walls (as well as the Oriental Orthodox Churches), then the diversity within Protestantism is not a plus and Protestantism in and of itself is a minus, even if salvation is still possible for it's followers.
 
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Winken

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Not just Christianity, but Buddhism, Islam, and other belief systems as well, including atheism. I am here specifically to learn more about Christianity since, well, you know... this Christian Forums.

So, yes, many different Christians will find themselves together with people of other faiths, and of no faith, and they will travel in a liminal type of limbo, similar to the darkened wood of Dante's Inferno, and try to find the path to their eternal rest. I would think in this way, through the very frank discussions that take place, it would be a good forum to learn about Christianity, how it differs from other beliefs, and why that's important.
Please understand that Christianity is Faith in Jesus as Savior. It has zero to do with "religion," the latter implying structure, procedures within a hierarchy, as in political or business movements / occupations.

You will not gain insight into the Christian Faith by studying all the religious groups "out there." That will only add to your lack of insight. You will not gain insight by exploring all the denominations "out there." You will be left to sort out your confusion, not God, not the Holy Spirit.

The Word of God is utterly Spiritual, simple and straight-forward ... in the Spiritual context. There is no other context. All else is intellectual "discussion," coming to no Spiritual conclusion.

To reach Spiritual comprehension, you truthfully express your belief in Him. Then it becomes Belief.
 
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I am not a Christian, but I am here to learn more about Christianity. I was raised Catholic, but I have lost my faith and I now consider myself an atheist. However, I still enjoy exploring the topic of religion. I respect theists, the diversity of ways which people try to find the divine, and the right of people to choose to worship how they wish or not worship at all.

In the spirit of full disclosure, I am conducting research for a novel about the afterlife. I am interested especially in learning more about evangelical Christianity, Pentacostalism, Baptists, and Calvinism. These faiths seem very different from the Catholicism I was raised with.

Welcome to Christian Forums @umbrabates ! I hope you enjoy your time here and best of luck with your book. :)
 
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Heart2Soul

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A long time ago I had lost my faith as well.....I just couldn't trust God, His Word, His Church and more importantly His Pastors...been hurt by them a few times when I was so young. 17 to be exact. Most of my spiritual growth has come from seeking Him and from the Holy Spirit who gave me instruction on what scriptures to read that day and I was given Revelation Knowledge of that Word...
So I have one quick question....Does the Catholic Church teach and preach from The Holy Bible? Does it teach the salvation message of Jesus as Lord and Saviour? Is the real difference simply the doctrines that the churches established?
I am very excited that you are here!
 
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umbrabates

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So I have one quick question....Does the Catholic Church teach and preach from The Holy Bible? Does it teach the salvation message of Jesus as Lord and Saviour?

Thank you for your thoughtful response and kind words.

Yes, of course, the Catholic Church teaches from the Bible. When I was Catholic, I was a church lector. We would read three passages from the Bible each week. I attended a Catholic Bible study weekly. I taught from the Bible myself when I was a Sunday school teacher. I would hold "Bible drills" and teach my students how to use the Bible, how to look up passages, and the differences in the different books of the Bible.

There was a bit of joke in Catholic circles that during the Reformation the Protestants got the Bible and the Catholics got the Sacraments. Although it is possible to be a devout Catholic and have only a cursory relationship with the Bible, I don't feel that is the case with everyone, certainly not me. I feel I had ample opportunity to immerse myself in the Bible.

And, yes, of course, the Catholic Church teaches salvation through the sacrifice of Christ Jesus. You would be hard pressed to find a Christian church that does not.

Is the real difference simply the doctrines that the churches established?

I think that is a question I, too, seek an answer to. What is the difference? What difference does that make in the decisions we make every day, the manner in which we live our lives, and what happens to us after we die?

I am very excited that you are here!

Thank you. You are very kind.
 
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