seeking to know all the answers

[SonicBOOM]

I'm not sure how to start this... but I just wanted to say that I have done alot of study over the years of beleifs and stuff like that I think i'm starting back at sqaure one.... where I relize how little I know. Nothing makes sense to me and nothing seems to work. At this point people would usaully become and atheist... but not me. the reason is I find atheism imcomplete and based on assumptions and I'm not convinced by it. I'm a christain as of now but only by lifestyle and faith. I will admit that I find Christainity completely illogical.... but I think thats what it's supposed to be, illogical. If it was logical than it would be created by logical men... and not an illogical God. But I dunno... i'm just ranting now and I'm not sure what to even label myself right now. I've been very honest with myself and I relize that after all i've learned... i know nothing.

 

[quatona]

I´m not sure I understand how illogical claims get more convincing because they are meant to be illogical.

"This object shrinks when heated because the material expands with increasing temperature."
"That´s illogical."
"It´s meant to be illogical."
"I see. I´m already convinced you are right."

 

[FutileRhetoric]

I'm fairly certain that everything we 'know' is based on assumptions if we go far back enough to a point where illogic previals. Can you elaborate on what your problem is with atheism?

 

[ArchaicTruth]

Everything we "know" is based on subjective concepts. Personally I'm only a Christian because 1) I love Jesus, I mean, even non-christians have to admit he was pretty awesome and 2) I'm bound to this religion until I move out of this house. When I'm older I'll probably become agnostic, find a really awesome Protestant religion that knows what they're talking about, or possibly even make my own religion. I can put you on my "Send religious pamphlets to" list if you 'd like.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Masked Chris. I don`t know what you find illogical, and I think, seeking to know all the answers, is not a bad thing. Jesus told us, while on Earth, " unless you believe like a child, you will not enter God`s Kingdom. " He also gave us 2 Commandments, which contain all 10 Commandments God gave us. 1) Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds. That is straightforward, God made us in His image, God loves us, and God wants us to be with Him, and each other, for eternity. 2) Love each other, as you love yourselves. Which means also, to treat others, as we would like to be treated by others, with kindness, considerration, forgiveness, and a helping hand, when needed. Jesus told us to Repent, exchange our old and selfish natures into loving and caring ones. Jesus will help and guide us, if we ask Him. He will give Joy and Peace, and His Love, which we share among us. He will give us life abundantly on Earth, and life eternally when we leave this Earth, to return to our original Home with God. I say this humbly and with conviction, Masked Chris, and send greetings. Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[theJacknessMonster]

Masked_Chris: If you havn't already, I suggest you look into Gnosticism. Gnostics were among the first Christians, however they had a very different view on the religion. Had it not been for crusades sent out against Gnostics in order to destroy them and their teachings, Gnosticism might of very well grown in size to be as popular as Christianity or Catholicism. I tell you this as not to push you into Gnosticism, but to study up on thier beliefs. Gnostics were about knowledge, which it seems you seek out yourself. They also practiced the acceptence of all religions, because they believed that it didn't matter what religion you chose to follow.

 

[SonicBOOM]

thanks guys ​

I´m not sure I understand how illogical claims get more convincing because they are meant to be illogical.

"This object shrinks when heated because the material expands with increasing temperature."

"That´s illogical."

"It´s meant to be illogical."
"I see. I´m already convinced you are right."​

​

well there's a diffrence when your comparing a being who claims to be higher than humans. If a relegein is logical to the human mind than doesn't it make more sense to say that the relegein is created by humans?​

I'm fairly certain that everything we 'know' is based on assumptions if we go far back enough to a point where illogic previals.

see this is my problem. It's the fact that in the very end nothing makes sense. If you go far back enough, than you start to see that no matter what yo ubeleive.... it's illogical to beleive it.​

Can you elaborate on what your problem is with atheism?

well.... I just am not convinced by the arguments and they usaully come off to me as more attacks and assaults than arguments. Like the argument "if God is good, why is there so much bad in the world". But that doesn't really answer wether god exists or not.... it simply assaults the charecter of God IF he existed. Thats my problem with atheism. It doesn't seem to seek answers... but to destory relegious beleif. i know theres some more down-to-earth atheists out there. But most of the time I see an additude that is not seeking truth at all. I find alot of the people close-minded and arragent [sorry, no offense]

Dear Masked Chris. I don`t know what you find illogical, and I think, seeking to know all the answers, is not a bad thing. Jesus told us, while on Earth, " unless you believe like a child, you will not enter God`s Kingdom. " He also gave us 2 Commandments, which contain all 10 Commandments God gave us. 1) Love God with all your hearts, with all your souls, and with all your minds. That is straightforward, God made us in His image, God loves us, and God wants us to be with Him, and each other, for eternity. 2) Love each other, as you love yourselves. Which means also, to treat others, as we would like to be treated by others, with kindness, considerration, forgiveness, and a helping hand, when needed. Jesus told us to Repent, exchange our old and selfish natures into loving and caring ones. Jesus will help and guide us, if we ask Him. He will give Joy and Peace, and His Love, which we share among us. He will give us life abundantly on Earth, and life eternally when we leave this Earth, to return to our original Home with God. I say this humbly and with conviction, Masked Chris, and send greetings. Emmy, your sister in Christ.

thanks, and this is kind of what I meant when i said I took Christainaity by lifestyle now It's not about poltical beleif and even if I did find all the answers... i don't think I would be anymore fullfilled by them. I'm not sure if this is what you meant but this is what your post spoke to me about.

Masked_Chris: If you havn't already, I suggest you look into Gnosticism. Gnostics were among the first Christians, however they had a very different view on the religion. Had it not been for crusades sent out against Gnostics in order to destroy them and their teachings, Gnosticism might of very well grown in size to be as popular as Christianity or Catholicism. I tell you this as not to push you into Gnosticism, but to study up on thier beliefs. Gnostics were about knowledge, which it seems you seek out yourself. They also practiced the acceptence of all religions, because they believed that it didn't matter what religion you chose to follow.

I'm familar with Gnostic beleifs and I'm not a big fan of them. No offense, thanks for the help it's just gnostic beleifs were also considered heresies by the early church fathers and I've read the Apocrypha [where alot of the gnostic teachers get their doctines from] and frankly I found it kind of disturbing.... but thats just me

​

 

[MikeMcK]

Masked_Chris: If you havn't already, I suggest you look into Gnosticism. Gnostics were among the first Christians

They were among the Christians, but they were not Christians, themselves.

 

[quatona]

well there's a diffrence when your comparing a being who claims to be higher than humans.​

Hang on - so far we are not talking about a being who claims something about itself, but about claims humans make.

If a relegein is logical to the human mind than doesn't it make more sense to say that the relegein is created by humans?

More sense than what? Than to say it is created by god? Sure.
But it also makes more sense to say a religion is created by humans if humans make senseless claims about it.
If nonsense is the epitome of divinity we have to believe in a lot of gods.
​

see this is my problem. It's the fact that in the very end nothing makes sense. If you go far back enough, than you start to see that no matter what yo ubeleive.... it's illogical to beleive it.

Agreed.
​

well.... I just am not convinced by the arguments and they usaully come off to me as more attacks and assaults than arguments. Like the argument "if God is good, why is there so much bad in the world".

How is this an attack or an assault? It is the attempt of a reductio ad absurdum - one of the methods of refuting a claim.

But that doesn't really answer wether god exists or not....

Sure it doesn´t. It merely is an argument against certain god concepts.

it simply assaults the charecter of God IF he existed.

No. It is the refutation of the claim that god is omnibenevolent.
I haven´t put up this standard for god - those who hold this god concept have.
I would be fine with a god who is just an average nice guy.

Thats my problem with atheism. It doesn't seem to seek answers...

Above you have determined that none of the answers makes sense. So what is there left to search?

but to destory relegious beleif.

I´m not out to destroy your beliefs. For me you can believe in whatever you can´t help believing.
If you feel that having your beliefs discussed will destroy your beliefs against your will, an apologetic forum is not the right place for you to go.

i know theres some more down-to-earth atheists out there. But most of the time I see an additude that is not seeking truth at all.

In view of the fact that you yourself have claimed that all answers to these question for "truth" lead to nonsense I think not engaging in this search is a legitimate option, if not even the best.

I find alot of the people close-minded and arragent [sorry, no offense]

I really don´t know what such a statement could possibly be but an offense.

​

 

[theJacknessMonster]

They were among the Christians, but they were not Christians, themselves.

actually there were Gnostic Christians. They just interpeted the bible differently, which is why many christians deny that gnostics were christians. Christianity can be interpreted many different ways. I interpret it as the worshipping of the sun.

 

[MikeMcK]

actually there were Gnostic Christians. They just interpeted the bible differently

They interpreted it so differently, in fact, that they went completely outside the bounds of Christianity.

Christianity can be interpreted many different ways. I interpret it as the worshipping of the sun.

So then, what do you do with passages like 2 John 1, which tells us that there is an objective standard and anyone who believes something that doesn't line up with that standard is not a Christian?

 

[FutileRhetoric]

actually there were Gnostic Christians. They just interpeted the bible differently, which is why many christians deny that gnostics were christians. Christianity can be interpreted many different ways. I interpret it as the worshipping of the sun.

No, they do not affirm the Nicene or Apostles Creed.