Secular music?

[Followers4christ]

Should we have a "Secular music" sub fourm on a "Christian" site? The secular music sub forum is for people to glorify bands like Marilyn Manson,Insane clown posse,Black sabbath and events like Ozzfest and the Warped tour.Both tours have a deep satanic message and Secular music is filled with sex,drugs,bad language and violence.Is this the sort of junk we should have on a Christian site? What are your thoughts on the subject? God Bless

 

[pgp_protector]

When you talk about "secular" are you meaning non-religious, or anti-religious ?

The normal use of secular would just be non-religious.

 

[pgp_protector]

Also I'd love for you to point out the Sex, Drugs, Bad language or violence in my "secular music" Cds
Beethovens' Symphony #9
The Best Of Babylon 5
Big Sur
Close Encounters Soundtrack
Galaxies
Kokopeli
Mozart Symphonies #40
Ocean Surf
The Romantic Classics
Star Wars Sound Track (1 & 2)
Time Warp
Universe Sampler 90
Xanadu

 

[Floatingaxe]

If music doesn't do what it was created to do--glorify God, then I have nothing to do with it---if I can. Kinda hard when you're shopping and they are piping in the junk.

 

[pgp_protector]

If music doesn't do what it was created to do--glorify God, then I have nothing to do with it---if I can. Kinda hard when you're shopping and they are piping in the junk.

So no happy birthday for you ?

 

[Kvikklunsj]

We'd better not talk about secular books or movies either.

 

[Floatingaxe]

So no happy birthday for you ?

Only if sung in a Godly way!

 

[staveoffzombies]

Wait, so all music ever made has to be directly praising God for you to listen to it?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Wait, so all music ever made has to be directly praising God for you to listen to it?

Really? Yes. God created music to glorify Himself. I believe that is its purpose...always was, until the worship leader in Heaven, Lucifer, rebelled and took music and perverted it to glorify himself. We pawns buy into it.

 

[staveoffzombies]

Sooooo, if I listen to a song that has a positive message, or thought-provoking lyrics, yet they don't directly reference God in any way...then that would be Satanic influence?

 

[Anwar]

Sooooo, if I listen to a song that has a positive message, or thought-provoking lyrics, yet they don't directly reference God in any way...then that would be Satanic influence?

you jus said it yourself...if it doesnt glorify god...or at least packs some kind of message with a godly influence dont listen to it

 

[Zecryphon]

When you talk about "secular" are you meaning non-religious, or anti-religious ?

The normal use of secular would just be non-religious.

My feeling is that when the OP, who is most likely hyped up on Ron Luce's battle rhetoric, talks about secular music, he's referring to what Ron personally objects to. Look at the bands he's listed, these aren't just secular bands, these are bands that certain Christians have deemed satanic, but rarely ever are. How come musicians like Pink, U2, Aerosmith, Madonna, Snoop Dogg, Snow Patrol, etc. aren't listed?

Everything you listen to or hear has to be filtered through the written word of God and tested to see if it's glorifying to God. That includes Christian music today that is so popular. There is more that is damaging to a Christian in today's Christian music than you will ever find in anything by the band's listed above by the OP.

Personally I listen to heavy metal music and other secular music as well, while there are references to satan in a couple of the songs I listen to, it's not outright glorification of him. Alot of heavy metal music deals with themes other than the devil. It is probably the among the most intelligent and creative music out there.

Plus, another factoid the OP probably doesn't want you to know is that the "evil" heavy metal bands have Christians in them. Iron Maiden is one. The drummer Nicko McBrain became a born-again Christian in 2000. Their music has been influenced by his conversion to Christianity and is dealing with religion in a some of their more recent songs. What we as a Christian site have to stop doing is deciding for everyone else what is "Christian" and what is not based upon our own personal feelings. What happened to loving people where they're at? You don't want to listen to secular music, fine, don't. But don't make it into a pseudo-sin for others because it doesn't match up to your preconcieved notions of what is right according to you. Also, more bands than just the ones the OP has listed are discussed in that sub-forum, which is open to all people, not just Christians. That forum doesn't exist just for Black Sabbath, ICP and Ozzy and his music festival. This issue has already been dealt with, by CF. They put that sub-fourm in the area of this forum that is open to everyone. I think this guy is just trying to stir a pot that need not be stirred anymore.

 

[Edial]

Beatles wrote "All you need is love, taa-ta-ta-taa".

If I sing it with a transcending New Age understanding - one thing.

If I sing it with understanding that humanism is the answer to all - another thing.

If a little child sings it in innocence - yet another thing.

Just an opinion.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[Floatingaxe]

Sooooo, if I listen to a song that has a positive message, or thought-provoking lyrics, yet they don't directly reference God in any way...then that would be Satanic influence?

Well, who is doing the thought-provoking? Who is doing the creating of that music?

If it isn't anointed or created by the anointed, then I wouldn't trust the thoughts it generates. God can cause me to think on things I need to address without a secular message to initiate it. He is Lord, and He will direct me using His own delivery system to my mind and heart!

I have given control of my mind over to the Holy Spirit. He shows me what is right and good for me.

 

[MaidforHim]

Are we talking about a forum specificly for satanic music or one for secular music? Satanic music is not secular, satanist have a religion.

When I think secular music I think of any and all forms of music that are not about God or for worshipping Him.

That would include everything from Mary Had a Little Lamb to Row Row Row Your Boat ... Harry Chapins - Cats in the Cradle to John Denvers - Thank God I'm a Country Boy right on out to Black Sabbath and worse.

God made flowers I don't see anything wrong with someone singing about them.

He created love and I don't see anything wrong with a romantic love song ... or instrumental dance music or ???

I think music containing or glorifying sex, drugs and violence or disrespecting God are wrong for obvious reasons. Not all secular music contains these elements.

It is hard to listen to some secular stations for very long without hearing a song that not only contains sexual references but even graphic description. I hate that!

However, there are secular stations that don't play that trash and I don't see anything wrong with listening to songs about the lighter, more innocent or enjoyable sides of life. Life is a blessing and I think it's OK to enjoy it or sing about it in a wholesome way.

I think if CF wants to have a secular music forum that's great as long as their are some rules... like no profane, immoral or evil music discusion in a way that glorifies this type of music, sin or disrespect of God.

 

[sebastian]

I think this comes under "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". for some it may be a problem to other not so. it's a well known fact that wesley took the tunes of drinking songs and put christian lyrics to them, how did he know the tune in the first place? Also how many worship songs do you know that has not been influenced by secular music, come to think of it, you do realise that the scales and keys we use in the west are of pre-christian ancient greek origin?

 

[Floatingaxe]

I think this comes under "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". for some it may be a problem to other not so. it's a well known fact that wesley took the tunes of drinking songs and put christian lyrics to them, how did he know the tune in the first place? Also how many worship songs do you know that has not been influenced by secular music, come to think of it, you do realise that the scales and keys we use in the west are of pre-christian ancient greek origin?

Hmmm...music is a creation of God (not Greeks) for Himself and we are allowed to participate in it for His glory, His pleasure and our own blessing.

 

[sebastian]

Hmmm...music is a creation of God (not Greeks) for Himself and we are allowed to participate in it for His glory, His pleasure and our own blessing.

yes, but the greeks formalised the scales we use in the west. there are 8 modes if i remember rightly and they are what we use, but more commonly just 2 of them which we call the major and minor scales. anyway that same logic can be applied to death metal as God created music. what matters is not the style, but the intent behind it. and if i can listen to a non-christian talk about how he feels about life i can listen to one sing about it.

 

[Zecryphon]

Well, who is doing the thought-provoking? Who is doing the creating of that music?

If it isn't anointed or created by the anointed, then I wouldn't trust the thoughts it generates. God can cause me to think on things I need to address without a secular message to initiate it. He is Lord, and He will direct me using His own delivery system to my mind and heart!

I have given control of my mind over to the Holy Spirit. He shows me what is right and good for me.

"Well, who is doing the thought-provoking? "

Wouldn't it be the individual who does it? I mean what is thought provoking to one person may not be so thought provoking to another.

"Who is doing the creating of that music? "

This is debatable. It could all go back to God since it would ultimately be God who gifted that person with the ability to write music and lyrics.


"If it isn't anointed or created by the anointed, then I wouldn't trust the thoughts it generates."

But there is a variable here, which is the person hearing this music. Plus how does one receive the anointing of God? And how can we be sure that just because a secular musician has recorded music that they are not annointed? We do not know for certain what is in their heart or what their standing is in relation to God.


"God can cause me to think on things I need to address without a secular message to initiate it."

This is true. It is also true that God can use other means to get us to reflect upon things He wants us to reflect upon. He does indeed work in strange ways and can use the things in our lives to draw us closer to Him.

"He is Lord, and He will direct me using His own delivery system to my mind and heart!"

And secular music, books, movies, tv, etc. are beyond God's dominion? He absolutely can not use those to reach us?


"I have given control of my mind over to the Holy Spirit. He shows me what is right and good for me."

I disagree that you gave anything over to the Holy Spirit. I think the Holy Spirit took control of your mind from you. We will never choose anything good because of our sinful nature. When the Spirit works in our lives, it's not because we let Him, it's because that's what God has sent Him to do.

 

[pgp_protector]

And what of instrumental music ?
Is it bad (it doesn't "praise God", it doesn't praise anything)