Secular music?

[Floatingaxe]

yes, but the greeks formalised the scales we use in the west. there are 8 modes if i remember rightly and they are what we use, but more commonly just 2 of them which we call the major and minor scales. anyway that same logic can be applied to death metal as God created music. what matters is not the style, but the intent behind it. and if i can listen to a non-christian talk about how he feels about life i can listen to one sing about it.

And God is glorified in it how?
Questions to consider when choosing music to listen to:

• What is the spirit behind the song?
• Who or what does it exalt? The world? The flesh? The devil? Jesus?
• Does it edify the believer? Philippians 4:8 And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise.

Make a choice to have a positive answer to all questions!

Deuteronomy 7:26
Do not bring any detestable objects into your home, for then you will be destroyed, just like them. You must utterly detest such things, for they are set apart for destruction.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Good post, Zecryphon, except I differ in this:

I disagree that you gave anything over to the Holy Spirit. I think the Holy Spirit took control of your mind from you. We will never choose anything good because of our sinful nature. When the Spirit works in our lives, it's not because we let Him, it's because that's what God has sent Him to do.

It is for us to relinquish control to the Holy Spirit. Get off that throne and let God have it.

We lay our sinful natures at the cross. We take on the new nature of God and His holiness. We are continually at war concerning this very thing in our selves, but we are adopted into that Forever Family and we are citizens of Heaven...not earth.

The Holy spirit cannot work anything in us unless we co-operate by relinquishing our grip on our will.

 

[sebastian]

And God is glorified in it how?
Questions to consider when choosing music to listen to:

• What is the spirit behind the song?
• Who or what does it exalt? The world? The flesh? The devil? Jesus?
• Does it edify the believer? Philippians 4:8 And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise.

Make a choice to have a positive answer to all questions!

Deuteronomy 7:26
Do not bring any detestable objects into your home, for then you will be destroyed, just like them. You must utterly detest such things, for they are set apart for destruction.

if a song is about love, is that evil? if it is about enjoying life is that bad? or if it is about the desire for good things in the world? all of which secular music can do, it can also be about the pain of being alone, the longing for something good. these are real people's feelings and i don;t see why i should be told to ignore them when I haven't felt convicted about it myself, i have stopped listening to some music because of the content, one of my favorite songs infact (which had no words!). I mean if you want to become so strict about it, and i don;t mean this as an attack, but does a floating axe glorify God or does it conjure the image of violence? or am i just being over the top now? (which i think i am btw)

 

[Floatingaxe]

if a song is about love, is that evil? if it is about enjoying life is that bad? or if it is about the desire for good things in the world? all of which secular music can do, it can also be about the pain of being alone, the longing for something good. these are real people's feelings and i don;t see why i should be told to ignore them when I haven't felt convicted about it myself, i have stopped listening to some music because of the content, one of my favorite songs infact (which had no words!). I mean if you want to become so strict about it, and i don;t mean this as an attack, but does a floating axe glorify God or does it conjure the image of violence? or am i just being over the top now? (which i think i am btw)

If the "love song" causes you to think fleshly thoughts, then where is God glorified?

Nostalgia for past sin is often brought about by certain music. To ruminate on past sin is fleshly thinking and has the potential to cause us to become disquieted in our spirits, depressed, and even can cause us to give in to sin. Worst case scenario, it can drive us to self-destruction.

The person who spends the entire day listening to secular music feels the desire to do what he listens to. If he listens to music that speaks about things that can’t be, sadness, frustration, and the pain that life has given him, he will end up depressed, bitter, drinking, or committing suicide.

 

[pgp_protector]

And what of instrumental music ?
Is it bad (it doesn't "praise God", it doesn't praise anything)

Floatingaxe ???

 

[Zecryphon]

Good post, Zecryphon, except I differ in this:



It is for us to relinquish control to the Holy Spirit. Get off that throne and let God have it.

We lay our sinful natures at the cross. We take on the new nature of God and His holiness. We are continually at war concerning this very thing in our selves, but we are adopted into that Forever Family and we are citizens of Heaven...not earth.

The Holy spirit cannot work anything in us unless we co-operate by relinquishing our grip on our will.

So according to what you have said here, God does not get all the glory when it comes to saving you because He can not do anything until YOU let Him? Where is that in the Bible?

 

[Floatingaxe]

Floatingaxe ???

We have to keep in mind the fact that we have music in each part of our body: breathing, in our heartbeat, in each molecule of our being. Because we have music within us, we are attracted to different melodies and rhythms. It is natural to us because God created us that way.


With regard to lyric-less music, we need to pay attention to what it generates in us. We also would do well to research who the composer is. Did he or she live a life of debauchery? If they were obviously into degradation, then the music would not be a vehicle for blessing, having been hatched out of darkness, would it?

We can’t forbid ourselves to listen to music, but we do have to know how to use it in a way that won’t bring us negative consequences. Music will influence our behaviour. For example, people with nervous disorders or with hyperactive children can play soft music to calm them and to reduce anxiety. Frequently we move our feet, fingers, or head to the rhythms that we listen to, and we unconsciously sing songs that we may not even like! We do it because that song sticks in our minds.

Satan made a plan to get inside our minds and hearts through music, so that he can control our behaviours, and rule our lives. Then he is able to lead us to his original purpose of destruction and death, both physically and spiritually. Satan wants to steal everything that we love…our families, feelings, friends, and finally ourselves as people.

John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal, to kill and to destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

 

[Floatingaxe]

So according to what you have said here, God does not get all the glory when it comes to saving you because He can not do anything until YOU let Him? Where is that in the Bible?

Romans 8:6 and 12-14
So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace...
you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.



We have a choice to make. Allow the Holy Spirit dominion, or be a carnal Christian. This is about consecration.

 

[Zecryphon]

If the "love song" causes you to think fleshly thoughts, then where is God glorified?

Nostalgia for past sin is often brought about by certain music. To ruminate on past sin is fleshly thinking and has the potential to cause us to become disquieted in our spirits, depressed, and even can cause us to give in to sin. Worst case scenario, it can drive us to self-destruction.

The person who spends the entire day listening to secular music feels the desire to do what he listens to. If he listens to music that speaks about things that can’t be, sadness, frustration, and the pain that life has given him, he will end up depressed, bitter, drinking, or committing suicide.

"If the "love song" causes you to think fleshly thoughts, then where is God glorified? "

Why is this always the automatic end result of listening to a secular song? Why can't a Christian just listen to the story the song tells and think to themselves "oh man, I remember when that was me. Thank God I have a new heart and a new desire and I am no longer like the person in this song. Praise God!

"Nostalgia for past sin is often brought about by certain music. To ruminate on past sin is fleshly thinking and has the potential to cause us to become disquieted in our spirits, depressed, and even can cause us to give in to sin. Worst case scenario, it can drive us to self-destruction."

Only if you still long for that sin. If that is the case then you should not be listening to certain types of music until you are stronger in your faith. But because you are weak in one area does not mean that all secular music is bad for all people. Remember all things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. This would be one area that would not be beneficial and therefore should be avoided.


"The person who spends the entire day listening to secular music feels the desire to do what he listens to."

I spend my entire day listening to Christian podcasts and secular music. I tend to spend my evenings proclaiming Christ and the truth of God's written word to all the people I meet in Second Life. But why do I do that? Why wouldn't I act upon the negative emotions that secular music should be creating in me?

"If he listens to music that speaks about things that can’t be, sadness, frustration, and the pain that life has given him, he will end up depressed, bitter, drinking, or committing suicide."

He doesn't have to. The new spirit that resides in him is stronger than any of those things. A person who is susceptible to the things you mention should not be listening to secular music. Unfortunately, we can't go around practicing psychiatry or psychology without a license. God will let the person know if what they are doing is beneficial or not. Sometimes a person may have to self-destruct before they hear the message coming from God. God uses our trials and tribulations and allows them to happen to us, so that we will be prepared for future situations in our walk with him.

 

[Floatingaxe]

"If the "love song" causes you to think fleshly thoughts, then where is God glorified? "

Why is this always the automatic end result of listening to a secular song? Why can't a Christian just listen to the story the song tells and think to themselves "oh man, I remember when that was me. Thank God I have a new heart and a new desire and I am no longer like the person in this song. Praise God!

"Nostalgia for past sin is often brought about by certain music. To ruminate on past sin is fleshly thinking and has the potential to cause us to become disquieted in our spirits, depressed, and even can cause us to give in to sin. Worst case scenario, it can drive us to self-destruction."

Only if you still long for that sin. If that is the case then you should not be listening to certain types of music until you are stronger in your faith. But because you are weak in one area does not mean that all secular music is bad for all people. Remember all things are permissible but not all things are beneficial. This would be one area that would not be beneficial and therefore should be avoided.


"The person who spends the entire day listening to secular music feels the desire to do what he listens to."

I spend my entire day listening to Christian podcasts and secular music. I tend to spend my evenings proclaiming Christ and the truth of God's written word to all the people I meet in Second Life. But why do I do that? Why wouldn't I act upon the negative emotions that secular music should be creating in me?

"If he listens to music that speaks about things that can’t be, sadness, frustration, and the pain that life has given him, he will end up depressed, bitter, drinking, or committing suicide."

He doesn't have to. The new spirit that resides in him is stronger than any of those things. A person who is susceptible to the things you mention should not be listening to secular music. Unfortunately, we can't go around practicing psychiatry or psychology without a license. God will let the person know if what they are doing is beneficial or not. Sometimes a person may have to self-destruct before they hear the message coming from God. God uses our trials and tribulations and allows them to happen to us, so that we will be prepared for future situations in our walk with him.

Good things there! It's all about being holy as He is holy, eh?

1 Peter 1:16
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

 

[sebastian]

If the "love song" causes you to think fleshly thoughts, then where is God glorified?

Nostalgia for past sin is often brought about by certain music. To ruminate on past sin is fleshly thinking and has the potential to cause us to become disquieted in our spirits, depressed, and even can cause us to give in to sin. Worst case scenario, it can drive us to self-destruction.

The person who spends the entire day listening to secular music feels the desire to do what he listens to. If he listens to music that speaks about things that can’t be, sadness, frustration, and the pain that life has given him, he will end up depressed, bitter, drinking, or committing suicide.

then it isn't a love song it's about something else, i don't listen to stuff like that.

The person who spends the entire day listening to secular music feels the desire to do what he listens to. If he listens to music that speaks about things that can’t be, sadness, frustration, and the pain that life has given him, he will end up depressed, bitter, drinking, or committing suicide.

in some cases i think it can enhance feelings already within that person, but it will not make them do anything though. music is emotive but nothing more than that. I agree we need to think about what we listen to, (or look at, or think about etc.) but that applies to everything, even worship music, to be honest if i had to listen to worship music allday i'd go mad so much of it is often dishonest and clichéd and therfore meaningless, but will we happily accept that because it has a christian tag?
anything can be bad for us despite what label is attached to it, but the same goes for what can be good for us.

you didn;t answer my point about your axe by the way.

 

[staveoffzombies]

So does this apply to any kind of written word then? We can't read any poetry that isn't directly in line with our beliefs? We can't watch any movie or play that has any concepts or ideas that may be outside of what we believe? What about lyrics that may be personal in nature, or lyrics that are philisophical in nature? We have to avoid those because we may be exposed to some new or different idea?

Are we to completely shut ourselves off from everything not directly related to our little bubble of belief? I am fully in agreement that music in church should be directly glorifying to God, but to stretch that definition out to every single facet of life is ludicrous.

 

[Zecryphon]

Romans 8:6 and 12-14
So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace...
you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live. For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.



We have a choice to make. Allow the Holy Spirit dominion, or be a carnal Christian. This is about consecration.

How do you reconcile those verses with Romans 7:18-19:

So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

So if we do not have the power to do good, or what is right, who is interceding on our behalf to cause us to do what is right? For instance,calling upon the name of Jesus Christ to save us from God's wrath?

 

[Floatingaxe]

I mean if you want to become so strict about it, and i don;t mean this as an attack, but does a floating axe glorify God or does it conjure the image of violence? or am i just being over the top now? (which i think i am btw)

My floating axe is from the story of Elisha in 2 Kings 6. No violence is even remotely attached to it.

It is a God-glorifying element of my life.

 

[Floatingaxe]

How do you reconcile those verses with Romans 7:18-19:

So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

So if we do not have the power to do good, or what is right, who is interceding on our behalf to cause us to do what is right? For instance,calling upon the name of Jesus Christ to save us from God's wrath?

What are you asking? We all have the war within us as Paul did. We all have the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome! It is up to us to allow Him to control us and thereby we defeat the enemy working against us.

None of those scriptures clash in any way in their meaning. It's all good!

 

[sebastian]

My floating axe is from the story of Elisha in 2 Kings 6. No violence is even remotely attached to it.

It is a God-glorifying element of my life.

puh, there goes that argument!

 

[pgp_protector]

We have to keep in mind the fact that we have music in each part of our body: breathing, in our heartbeat, in each molecule of our being. Because we have music within us, we are attracted to different melodies and rhythms. It is natural to us because God created us that way.

I must of missed this in the bible.
Now I have heard about thought like this before I was Christian & when looking into the "new age" movement, but never in the bible. Care to point it out in the bible where Every Molecule has Music in it ?

With regard to lyric-less music, we need to pay attention to what it generates in us. We also would do well to research who the composer is. Did he or she live a life of debauchery? If they were obviously into degradation, then the music would not be a vehicle for blessing, having been hatched out of darkness, would it?

I know of no sinless composers, and I don't recall Jesus composing too much music.
Also any scripture to back this up ?

...snip...

 

[Floatingaxe]

So does this apply to any kind of written word then? We can't read any poetry that isn't directly in line with our beliefs? We can't watch any movie or play that has any concepts or ideas that may be outside of what we believe? What about lyrics that may be personal in nature, or lyrics that are philisophical in nature? We have to avoid those because we may be exposed to some new or different idea?

Are we to completely shut ourselves off from everything not directly related to our little bubble of belief? I am fully in agreement that music in church should be directly glorifying to God, but to stretch that definition out to every single facet of life is ludicrous.

Proverbs 7:2
Obey my commands and live! Guard my instructions as you guard your own eyes.

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

 

[sebastian]

Every Molecule has Music in it ?

to be fair, everything does vibrate and resonate at a certain frequency, even the earth as a whole makes a note.

 

[pgp_protector]

to be fair, everything does vibrate and resonate at a certain frequency, even the earth as a whole makes a note.

While it's true that they vibrate,
vibrate != music.
I'll even give you string theory, (cool subject but a bit OT for this thread )