Secular music?

[Floatingaxe]

FloatingAxe: I think you are forgetting the big picture. It's all about how the music affects the listener. If someone is listening to music that fills them with anger and hatred, then yes that is a problem. To say that EVERYTHING a person does must directly glorify the Lord is frankly almost impossible. If you truly believe this, I hope you don't like to watch the news or any movies besides Charlton Heston Presents the Bible and Left Behind.

Hehe! I do believe that we must glorify God in all that we do, which is scriptural. Therein you will discover the "big picture."

 

[Anwar]

as my youth pastor says "not all christian music is good and not all Secular music is bad" and I completely agree. however if someone doesn't wish to listen to Secular music at all I think thats awesome. but in the end thats between you and God.

dont believe that crap, any pastor that think that will think its ok to bring DMX to sing lord give me a sign at their church

 

[Zecryphon]

dont believe that crap, any pastor that think that will think its ok to bring DMX to sing lord give me a sign at their church

"dont believe that crap, any pastor that think that will think its ok to bring DMX to sing lord give me a sign at their church"

What's wrong with bringing in DMX? He's a born-again Christian with a powerful testimony from what I've heard. A church in our area did bring him in to do just what you've stated here. I did not attend as I am not a member of that church.

 

[sebastian]

Should we have a "Secular music" sub fourm on a "Christian" site?

so what does the OP think, and why is christian in inverted commas?

 

[plmarquette]

Paul speaks in 2 timothy 1.1-7 of stirring yourself up with songs , words , to build up your faith , to overcome a spirit of gloom and doom , fear , doubt

... whether it is carman , steven curtis chapman , or the eurythmics ... shouldn't matter ...

... if we are speaking about gutter rap or acid rock with a constant theme of 1 corinthians 6.9 , then no ... trash can only beget trash

 

[Followers4christ]

My feeling is that when the OP, who is most likely hyped up on Ron Luce's battle rhetoric, talks about secular music, he's referring to what Ron personally objects to. Look at the bands he's listed, these aren't just secular bands, these are bands that certain Christians have deemed satanic, but rarely ever are. How come musicians like Pink, U2, Aerosmith, Madonna, Snoop Dogg, Snow Patrol, etc. aren't listed?

Everything you listen to or hear has to be filtered through the written word of God and tested to see if it's glorifying to God. That includes Christian music today that is so popular. There is more that is damaging to a Christian in today's Christian music than you will ever find in anything by the band's listed above by the OP.

Personally I listen to heavy metal music and other secular music as well, while there are references to satan in a couple of the songs I listen to, it's not outright glorification of him. Alot of heavy metal music deals with themes other than the devil. It is probably the among the most intelligent and creative music out there.

Plus, another factoid the OP probably doesn't want you to know is that the "evil" heavy metal bands have Christians in them. Iron Maiden is one. The drummer Nicko McBrain became a born-again Christian in 2000. Their music has been influenced by his conversion to Christianity and is dealing with religion in a some of their more recent songs. What we as a Christian site have to stop doing is deciding for everyone else what is "Christian" and what is not based upon our own personal feelings. What happened to loving people where they're at? You don't want to listen to secular music, fine, don't. But don't make it into a pseudo-sin for others because it doesn't match up to your preconcieved notions of what is right according to you. Also, more bands than just the ones the OP has listed are discussed in that sub-forum, which is open to all people, not just Christians. That forum doesn't exist just for Black Sabbath, ICP and Ozzy and his music festival. This issue has already been dealt with, by CF. They put that sub-fourm in the area of this forum that is open to everyone. I think this guy is just trying to stir a pot that need not be stirred anymore.

I did not think it necessary to mention every band in secular music.The bands you named are also daminging.Such as Pink who use's sex and bad language to sell records. Aerosmith sings about sex and violence (Love in the elevator,janie's got a gun) to sell records.Madonna is famous for using sex to sell records and shocking people by her bad behavior.Snoop Dogg use's his bad language and gang violence to sell records.I do not know Both U2 and Snow Patrol.

There is nothing wrong with Christian music that are glorifying God.Whats wrong with Christian rock bands like Skillet,Kutless,Disciple,Pillar,Seventh Day Slumber,Thousand Foot Krutch,Demon hunter,Jeremy Camp,Superchick and Red.Or what about great Gospel/worship music like MeryMe,Twila Paris,Michael W. Smith,Amy Grant,4Him,Hillsong United,Michael Gungor,Mark Schultz,Point of Grace and Sandie Patty.What about Christian pop/soft rock Music like Barlow Girl,Jessie Daniels,Carman,Jaci Velasquez,Dc Talk,Casting Crowns,Rebecca St. James,Sarah Kelly,Delirious? and Hawk Nelson.What's wrong with these or any Christian bands?

Nicko McBrain may be a christian but the band his in is far from it.He needs to be in a Christian band that Glorifies God not the world.We as a CHRISTIAN site must accept the sinners,but we should not accept the sin nor should we indulge in it.We must take a stand against the secular music that is hurting this Generation.We must stand together if we are going to reclaim this generation for Christ.God Bless

 

[Followers4christ]

so what does the OP think, and why is christian in inverted commas?

Why I put commas on the word Christian was because I believe that CF is becoming more and more like the world in regard's to making a secular music sub forum on a Christian site.I believe that secular music has no place on a Christian site.On this secular music sub forum people are praising bands like Marilyn Manson and Nightwish.Both these bands mock God on stage and hate Christianity.Why should a Christian site allow this junk to go on? God Bless

 

[staveoffzombies]

The simple fact is many Christian bands just aren't that great. I'm a big prog-metal and melodeath fan...and there really isn't a lot of Christian work that fall under that genre.

You find me a Christian band that is half as good as bands like Dream Theater, Opeth, Into Eternity, or Scar Symmetry and I'll check them out.

 

[sebastian]

Why I put commas on the word Christian was because I believe that CF is becoming more and more like the world in regard's to making a secular music sub forum on a Christian site.I believe that secular music has no place on a Christian site.On this secular music sub forum people are praising bands like Marilyn Manson and Nightwish.Both these bands mock God on stage and hate Christianity.Why should a Christian site allow this junk to go on? God Bless

I respect your point og view about secular music, and i agree about maralyn manson and whoever, but i just think it's bang out of order for you to say what is and isn't christian because this web site is made up of a body of beleivers both mature and weak, and not everyone agree's with your views. can a Christian make such a judgement and be justified themselves?

There is nothing wrong with Christian music that are glorifying God.Whats wrong with Christian rock bands like Skillet,Kutless,Disciple,Pillar,Seventh Day Slumber,Thousand Foot Krutch,Demon hunter,Jeremy Camp,Superchick and Red.Or what about great Gospel/worship music like MeryMe,Twila Paris,Michael W. Smith,Amy Grant,4Him,Hillsong United,Michael Gungor,Mark Schultz,Point of Grace and Sandie Patty.What about Christian pop/soft rock Music like Barlow Girl,Jessie Daniels,Carman,Jaci Velasquez,Dc Talk,Casting Crowns,Rebecca St. James,Sarah Kelly,Delirious? and Hawk Nelson.What's wrong with these or any Christian bands?

all these bands without a doubt are influenced by secular music and are infact a watered down replacement to secular bands, and they arn't very good as musicians, they don;t push any boundries musicaly they just copy and imitate, don;t get me wrong though I love some of those bands for they're passion and the great lyrics but they too have been influenced by secular music so it's a bit strange to say only listen to them but they in turn listen to secular music.

I do not know Both U2 and Snow Patrol.

good bands, U2 are made up of christians and have some influence in their music but not loads, snow patrol are secular but are very good in my opinion, you might like sufjan stevens while on the snow patrol theme, they sing about him in one of thier songs and he is a very very good christian songwriter and he is technicaly a secular artist. other bands like the fray are secular but made up of christians, same with athlete. this isn't metal music though more indie/rock.

 

[Zecryphon]

I did not think it necessary to mention every band in secular music.The bands you named are also daminging.Such as Pink who use's sex and bad language to sell records. Aerosmith sings about sex and violence (Love in the elevator,janie's got a gun) to sell records.Madonna is famous for using sex to sell records and shocking people by her bad behavior.Snoop Dogg use's his bad language and gang violence to sell records.I do not know Both U2 and Snow Patrol.

There is nothing wrong with Christian music that are glorifying God.Whats wrong with Christian rock bands like Skillet,Kutless,Disciple,Pillar,Seventh Day Slumber,Thousand Foot Krutch,Demon hunter,Jeremy Camp,Superchick and Red.Or what about great Gospel/worship music like MeryMe,Twila Paris,Michael W. Smith,Amy Grant,4Him,Hillsong United,Michael Gungor,Mark Schultz,Point of Grace and Sandie Patty.What about Christian pop/soft rock Music like Barlow Girl,Jessie Daniels,Carman,Jaci Velasquez,Dc Talk,Casting Crowns,Rebecca St. James,Sarah Kelly,Delirious? and Hawk Nelson.What's wrong with these or any Christian bands?

Nicko McBrain may be a christian but the band his in is far from it.He needs to be in a Christian band that Glorifies God not the world.We as a CHRISTIAN site must accept the sinners,but we should not accept the sin nor should we indulge in it.We must take a stand against the secular music that is hurting this Generation.We must stand together if we are going to reclaim this generation for Christ.God Bless

"I did not think it necessary to mention every band in secular music."

I don't know how anyone possibly could, the bands are so numerous. LOL

"The bands you named are also daminging.Such as Pink who use's sex and bad language to sell records."

The sex appeal and bad language may help, but i think it's the music itself, the way it makes people feel and what Pink is saying with her lyrics that really move her CD's.

"Aerosmith sings about sex and violence (Love in the elevator,janie's got a gun) to sell records."

They sing about other topics too. You're using a very broad brush here.

"Madonna is famous for using sex to sell records and shocking people by her bad behavior.Snoop Dogg use's his bad language and gang violence to sell records.I do not know Both U2 and Snow Patrol."

U2 is being adopted by Christians as a Christian band, even though they too sing about sex and violence in their songs as well. But hey, when 3 of 4 members are Christians I guess some stuff just falls by the wayside.

"There is nothing wrong with Christian music that are glorifying God."

That's true there is nothing wrong with that. But it's so rare.

"Whats wrong with Christian rock bands like Skillet,Kutless,Disciple,Pillar,Seventh Day Slumber,Thousand Foot Krutch,Demon hunter,Jeremy Camp,Superchick and Red.Or what about great Gospel/worship music like MeryMe,Twila Paris,Michael W. Smith,Amy Grant,4Him,Hillsong United,Michael Gungor,Mark Schultz,Point of Grace and Sandie Patty.What about Christian pop/soft rock Music like Barlow Girl,Jessie Daniels,Carman,Jaci Velasquez,Dc Talk,Casting Crowns,Rebecca St. James,Sarah Kelly,Delirious? and Hawk Nelson.What's wrong with these or any Christian bands?"

You forgot Carman, a good Christian singer who has a song called JC is in the house. JC? This is acceptable to Christians as a way to refer to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? I guess it must be, it was featured in that recent film Jesus Camp. All the kids were singing along without a care in the world. This is one example of a bad Christian song that actually promotes disrespect for Jesus. But hey, when you're trying to be relevant, I guess anything goes huh?

Also, are you forgetting that Jaci Velasquez appeared in a secular movie called Chasing Papi? In which she was vying for the attention of a single man and doing her best to beat out two other ladies who also happen to be his girlfriend. Now one can only speculate as to what her character's relationship with Papi was like, but since it's a worldly film, we can all pretty well guess. How is that movie in any way glorifying to God? It encourages and promotes sex outside of marriage and depicts women as objects for a man's affections. Yeah great way to share your faith there Jaci. Now shall we delve into her personal life and speculate as to what may have led to her ::gasps:: divorce? That's right, she's divorced everyone. How does divorce glorify God? Why is there such a need by you to say that secular bands are bad and Christian bands are good? The point is that all these bands are made up of people and no one person in any of them is better than a person in another one. A Christian is a forgiven sinner. They're forgiven, not better than anyone else. We tend to forget that.

There is a 3 part diagnostic I use when evaluating a sermon to find out if it's Christ-centered and Cross-focused. This diagnostic can also be applied to Christian music lyrics quite easily too. It was not intended to be applied to music though. The system comes from Issues, Etc. a Lutheran podcast hosted by Todd Wilkinson.

Step 1. How many times is Jesus mentioned by name? Not as generic "God" or "the big guy upstairs" or "you know who". But as "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" or "Christ" or "Our Savior" or "my redeemer".

Step 2. If Jesus is mentioned, is He the subject of the verbs? Is He doing the action, is the song telling you what Jesus has done or is He just someone in the background of the story or action?

Step 3. If Jesus is the subject of the verbs, what are those verbs? Is this the Jesus that is your power source? Your personal helper? The guy that helps you get through the week? Is He your inspiration when you're feeling down? The Jesus that you love so very much? Or is this the Jesus who has lived for you, died for you and rose from the dead for you?

"Nicko McBrain may be a christian but the band his in is far from it."

This is speculation that can not be backed up in anyway. You might wanna look at something other than The Number of the Beast that was released more than twenty years ago. Dave Mustaine and Alice Cooper are born-again Christians as well. Are they any less worthy of respect by you because of the music they produce?

"He needs to be in a Christian band that Glorifies God not the world."

That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.

"We as a CHRISTIAN site must accept the sinners,but we should not accept the sin nor should we indulge in it."

What you seem to be forgetting is that the forum in question is in the section that is open to all people. The problem has already been handled. This sub-forum is not in the congregational section and therefore does not really pose the kind of problem you want to think it does.

"We must take a stand against the secular music that is hurting this Generation.We must stand together if we are going to reclaim this generation for Christ.God Bless "

Ah more of that Ron Luce battlecry and war rhetoric. You can not save anyone, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ and God are the ones who do that. So while you can plant your seeds among this generation, the real work, is done by the trinity. Now, enough talking about it, go into that forum and start planting. Happy hunting! LOL

 

[Zecryphon]

The simple fact is many Christian bands just aren't that great. I'm a big prog-metal and melodeath fan...and there really isn't a lot of Christian work that fall under that genre.

You find me a Christian band that is half as good as bands like Dream Theater, Opeth, Into Eternity, or Scar Symmetry and I'll check them out.

I love Dream Theater!

 

[MaidforHim]

I've read over many of the arguments here and I still see nothing in scripture that supports the fact or concept that secular music, if wholesome in nature, is wrong or sinful.

We each own the responsibility of governing our thoughts and deeds, that includes thoughtfully choosing the music we listen too.

Music was an important enough part of the Jewish culture that if ALL secular music were inherantly evil I think God would have mentioned a warning about it in His word. I think he did not do so because we're expected not to partake in anything evil and we're supposed to discern, with the help of the Holy Spirit on matters like this.

At the very least instrumentals would have been played at weddings and danced too during Jesus' time. I know not everything is mentioned in the Bible, but I believe that since music is such a big part of the human experience God might have mentioned "secular" music if "ALL OF IT" was to be avoided.

Of course we shouldn't be listening to anything that promotes or glorifies behavior unpleasing to God. In my mind no one here has said anything to prove or illustrate how or why a secular song about wholesome or amusing human experiences would be evil.

Bach Air for G String ... evil ?
The Ants Go Marching ... evil too ?

I very highly doubt it. On what grounds could anyone draw this conclusion?

Led Zepplin, Whole Lotta Love ... evil. Yes, there's suggestive immoral content there, it's not wholesome, it's obvious, it'd be best to avoid.

It just doesn't seem that hard to figure out.