Seals

[gracechick]

When will or have the tribulation seals been broken? What is the most significant indicator of where you believe we are at presently in this brief timeline in the world's history?

 

[5010]

What do you think the scroll is?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[spidergains]

"I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest." (Rev. 6:1,2)

I believe that 9/11 was a temporal manifestation of the first seal being opened in Heaven. After that earth-shaking event, the United States, led by George W. Bush, went on a conquest of Afghanistan and Iraq. The "crown" mentioned in this passage is a wreath like the type awarded to athletes in ancient competitions. The U.S. Supreme court gave GWB the presidency when he was deadlocked with Al Gore.

I believe that the opening of the second seal will be made known to us by some weapon of mass destruction (a great sword) which will take peace from the earth.

There are already signs that global war is approaching and plagues like swine flu are beginning to manifest themselves. Famines are on the increase (i.e. India) and natural disasters are increasing in frequency and intensity.

The 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse seem ready for our time

 

[revanneosl]

Everything in the Book of Revelation up to Chapter 18 happened during the 1st century AD.

 

[B1inHim]

World Vital Events

4.3-1.8=2.5
1.8 is the amount of people who die every second of every day right now, out of 4.3 births... that is over 40%, thus this happened in the not so very far past that the 4th seal was opened... of course many people are expecting 1/4th of the entire population as of 31 October 2009, the Earth's population is estimated by the United States Census Bureau to be 6.794 billion all at once... they are expecting that 1.6+ billion people to die all at once.
This is not how it is happening... at one given time just recently 25% of those alive began to die... now the % is over 40% to date that the earths population dies every second of every day

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

the 4th seal is where we are at...
5 takes place in heaven and 6 is next

 

[B1inHim]

Everything in the Book of Revelation up to Chapter 18 happened during the 1st century AD.

We really need some hard facts here and it would be really nice of you to explain your understanding and show us in the Word where it say's these things that you are sharing...

Thanks so vey much,
Brother Jerry

 

[5010]

If the scroll is any of the things which you guys have replied to my question, then why did John cry when no one was found worthy to open it?..

(I'm asking like this to make YOU think)

 

[kotel]

The 7 seals are opened and fulfilled in the future during Daniel’s 70th week that begins with the 7 year covenant (Dn 9:27).

The riders on the horses are personifications of the Antichrist and the color of the horses are the conditions on earth caused by the Antichrist. The first seal and its rider on the white horse is opened in the first half of the 7 year covenant and fulfilled when the Antichrist conquers 3 of the ten horns (Dn 7:24). “He rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest” (Rev 6:2).

Eventually peace will come to the Middle East in the first half and Israel is living in “Peace and safety” when Gog decides to invades Israel in the middle of the 7 year covenant (Eze 38). With the fall and destruction of Babylon and Gog’s invasion of Israel the second seal is opened and the rider on the red horse takes “peace from the earth’ (Rev 6:4).

The first seal is opened in the first half and the other seals are opened in the second half.

 

[interpreter]

I hold the historicist view, that the 7 seals have already been opened.

The Revelation has been unfolding since the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds in 312 AD as prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24:30. That is when the first Christian conqueror, St. Constantine, arrived on the scene, riding a white horse and conquering with a bow. The kingdsom he founded, the Byzantine empire, lasted over 1000 years.

 

[NJBeliever]

I hold the historicist view, that the 7 seals have already been opened.

The Revelation has been unfolding since the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds in 312 AD as prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24:30. That is when the first Christian conqueror, St. Constantine, arrived on the scene, riding a white horse and conquering with a bow. The kingdsom he founded, the Byzantine empire, lasted over 1000 years.

So you think they literally happened? Where are the trumpet judgments (which is what the 7th seal initiates??

When was there massive global earthquake that caused all the great and mighty people of the world to go hide in holes and caves? When did stars fall from Heaven? I don't follow you at all.

 

[NJBeliever]

The first seal is opened in the first half and the other seals are opened in the second half.

We already know this cannot be true. See Revelation 11. When the witnesses die it is time of the "second woe" That would be the Sixth Trumpet (see Rev 9:12-13). So we have a built in time marker of the 70th week. Assuming you agree that the two witnesses preach for the first half of the 70th week and are then killed, then we know their death is the mid-point. The verse I just mentioned confirms that at the point the second woe has just ended, meaning the seals would have been done by the mid-point.

And to give even further confirmation of this, Revelation 12 which is the next passage, picks up right with the third woe or 7th trumpet.

So going just by what the scriptures plainly state, the seals would have to have been done, as well as the first trumpets, by the mid-point (plus 3 1/2 days - to be technical). So if you or anyone else is wondering how can all the action of the seals be fit into the first 3 1/2 years, my belief is that they don't. The 70th week does not commence until after the opening of the 6th Seal (Joel 2:31; Acts 2:20). So the first four seals have already been opened. The 5th is opened and plays out in Heaven so we on Earth have no idea when that will be or be completed. At the 6th, everyone will know.

I hope that makes sense. God bless.

 

[zeke37]

If the scroll is any of the things which you guys have replied to my question, then why did John cry when no one was found worthy to open it?..

(I'm asking like this to make YOU think)

may be the Law, or anyone under it, including Moses etc, was not worthy...no mere man is....

then the crying, no one can do it....


but wait....then he sees...that there is One that is worthy...the Lamb is worthy.

 

[zeke37]

consider that the 2 olive trees (part of the two witnesses) are killed just 3 days before Christ returns. When they are raised, is when Christ returns with the dead.
The earthquake in Rev11 is the one that is made when Christ's feet touch down.

 

[walt2000]

​

Things Which Are Seven Thunders

​

​

Look to my chart Horizontally to see who these elements are​

Those lines and ovals ,as you call them are similaritys between the thunders.And the area around the Thunders are really self explanatory.​

GET MY CHART AND LOOK.​

7 the top horizontal line is Christ's victory,in yellow.
6 next horizontal line is in Red ,The no. of Man.
5 line next is Christ's protection,souls protected,Come up my people.Word
4 line from the top is the no. of Earth.
3 line is the trinity no.Father(God),Son Of (God),Holy spirit, Word of (God)
2 this line is the union With (God)
1 is the no. of unity,(God)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
7 promises to the church's on the Earth ,things Thu seen,with (God)​

The first four 1,2,3,4, are the four spirits that roam the Earth.​

7 th.Thunder vertically is mystery Babylon White horse winner on Earth.
6 th. Thunder vertically is man.on Earth
5.th. Thunder vertically is Babylon Fallen Preaching to the Earth.​

4.th. Thunder vertically is The word on the Earth.
3 rd. Thunder vertically is witnesses on Earth.
2 nd. Thunder vertically is union with Christ on Earth.
1 st. Thunder vertically is White horse ,winner with Christ on Earth.​

5,6,7 is the consequences of the word .The trinity on Earth​

even a
Fundamentalist Should see that lay ed out.To not see that, is a disservice,two the author.
look how the victory lines up at the top.
look how the winepress's line up ,next down.
look at Earth Quakes and the Great river line up horizontally.
look at the promised White clothed protection line up horizontally.
look how come up my people lines up with come out my people.
look how the seals,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 line up with the trumpets,and vials line up with each other.
look how wormwood on water,blood on water,line up
look how burning mountain in sea ,and blood on sea ,line up.
look how the two Babylons line up with each other.
look how The Thunders start with a White Horse,and end with a White horse .​

And that is just ten item's,there are germatria connections yet to them all ..​

Revelations Of Seven Thunders Explaining Flash Card
I repeat ,Those lines and ovals ,as you call them are similarity's between the thunders.Showing That they are really one repeated ,And the area around the Thunders are really self explanatory.walt2000​

Last edited by walt2000; 8th November 2009 at 11:00 PM.

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#82 ​

3rd November 2009, 09:14 PM
walt2000

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With all due respect you're not citing a verse or addressing the explanation I put forth (which is just a restatement of the end of Rev 20 and the beginning of Rev 21.​

GOD THE FATHER Himself inhabits New Jerusalem. Which means it cannot be on this corrupted and sin-filled planet. It is going to be on the New Earth which comes after the 1000 year rule and when Satan has received his final punishment and all sin is removed for good. Completely. God is not going to dwell in a world with any sin.
​

AND the NEW BEGINING ,can't be found with out you knowing the Seven Thunders .

That is why you can't add, or alter, the wording of Revelation .You can see if any verse, was moved ,or eliminated, it would throw the Seven Thunders off,it has to be the way Christ gave it to john.
since no scripture is of it's own interpretation?I am not the interp. Christ is I'm just finding,I am just organizing structure.
Well sorry to say, this but this book seems to be of private interpretation, (Christs),we will have to ask him when we see him,won't we.
THIS IS WHY YOU NEED TO KNOW A LITTLE GERMATRIA AND kNOW A LITTLE ABOUT A ALAGORY
The harlot is what man made of the true word (ie.the false prophet)of God ,He cleans the woman, and dresses her ,and she comes down as the bride,The holy city now.And most of all Thunder no. 7 calls itself a harlot ,in Re.17/1+.When we get to the White horse it becomes Divine.​

Look at the holy city =------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 gates------------------------------------------Pearls--------------------------------------------12+-----------------------------------------------wide,--------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------high,---------------------------------------------
12+-----------------------------------------------foundations,--------------------------------------
12x12 or 144--------------------------------------thickness of the walls.City is based on the no. 12​

Witnesses are 144,000 ,that is 12 the perfect no.
12x12 is an amplification of the perfect no.12​

1000 = mega no.
There for 12x12 , 1000 = a the perfect no. x the perfect no. x 1000
= a multiple mega perfect no. x a multiple mega perfect no. x a mega no.​

Enter you and me ,Bab. Pardon the pun.​

This is my opinion using Gemartria,only ,and is not adding ,this is what I think it means it's interp. is .
You might have a different interp.
Makeing the harlot ,into the holy city, Divine with Christ ,for giveness ,Some one could probably make it sound better.​

​

The Holycity Do's not have to be Real ,It could be a simbolic city,and is ,with 12 as the base number.
12 foundation stones ,
walt2000 ​

 

[zeke37]

seal one is the false Christ, Walt


look up the original language for "bow" in Rev6:2

it is not a weapon,
but an appearance, an aura, like our white robes...or Christ's Glory...clothing....
it is a "bow" of fabric

an this rider's bow
is a fake/cheap immitation...simple fabric, not expensive, not the best of the best...
according to what the word means

it is a bow of fabric

"toxon"

 

[B1inHim]

seal one is the false Christ, Walt


look up the original language for "bow" in Rev6:2

it is not a weapon,
but an appearance, an aura, like our white robes...or Christ's Glory...clothing....
it is a "bow" of fabric

an this rider's bow
is a fake/cheap immitation...simple fabric, not expensive, not the best of the best...
according to what the word means
it is a bow of fabric

"toxon"

toxon, tox'-on; from the base of Greek 5088 (tikto); a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric) :- bow.

tikto, tik'-to; a strengthened form of a primary teko, tek'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses); to produce (from seed, as a mother, a plant, the earth, etc.), literal or figurative :- bear, be born, bring forth, be delivered, be in travail.
Rev. 6:2 (KJV)
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

I saw a white horse and he that sat on him had a delivered, travailing bow of fabric... and no matter what it was in his hand he went out with this fabric and did conquering... he had a bow of fabric not a bow that would shoot arrows because there are no arrows indicated

qesheth, keh'-sheth; from Hebrew 7185 (qashah) in the original sense (of Hebrew 6983 (qowsh)) of bending; a bow, for shooting (hence figurative strength) or the iris :- × arch (-er), + arrow, bow ([-man, -shot]).
qashah, kaw-shaw'; a primitive root; properly to be dense, i.e. tough or severe (in various applications) :- be cruel, be fiercer, make grievous, be ([ask a], be in, have, seem, would) hard (-en, [labour], -ly, thing), be sore, (be, make) stiff (-en, [-necked]).
qowsh, koshe; a primitive root; to bend; used only as denominative for Hebrew 3369 (yaqosh), to set a trap :- lay a snare.

Either way, he went out to conquer
nikao, nik-ah'-o; from Greek 3529 (nike); to subdue (literal or figurative) :- conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory.

He is on a white horse, with a bow of fabric and he conquers, subdues, overcomes and prevails...
The laws of successive nature in action... someone conquering with subtlety, someone who actually has a weapon and literally removes peace. Then the cost of life goes up dramatically and then war, famine, death and beasts reduce the population by 1/4th

ALL of which are daily events, literally taking place simultaneously… which has not been happening in our history since the beginning until just recently…

This more than just information being given, it is a literal reaction of the laws of nature...
GOD puts one in motion and the others follow...
See the blood in Egypt and the succession of plagues by natural means... NOT diminishing the plagues to natural phenomena but set in motion by the Creator of nature itself. To Him is all the glory!

 

[walt2000]

You Know this really doe's make sense
Rev.6/1 .white Horse with Bow( ie.of simple fabric)and Souls are given White robes ( ie.Bow of simple white cloth.)Rev.6/9 Same Thunder 1 The Seals, I Did not have a chance To check this out .And Check it out I will.If this checks out it is fantastic.And clear.

walt2000
toxon,tox'-on; from the base of Greek 5088 (tikto); a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric) :- bow
an this rider's bow
is a fake/cheap immitation...simple fabric, not expensive, not the best of the best...
according to what the word means
it is a bow of fabric

 

[walt2000]

Look at Promise no. 5 = prophesy Re,3/1 White clothing.All in line with Thunder 1 Seals Given White robes Re.6/9

It just seams to make sense that It could take a bow or( bolt of fabric)
I don't have the Dictionary in that language to prove it I'll have to trust You Guys For now B1inHim zeke37 .I can trust walt2000