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BobRyan

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Did you not read my post, Jesus stated ONLY the Father is the one true God

Jesus never says "I am not God" or "I am a false God - the Father is the true God".

Thus in the Bible Jesus is "our great God and Savior" Titus 2:13

You keep trying to "delete one text with another" in the scripture-slicing "either-or" model you have chosen. That is a flawed theory.

That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

Is that how you imagined you could delete Titus 2:13?

Stop using the "either-or so I deleted that text" idea.

Keep up with your deflection
That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

All squares are rectanges... not all rectangles are squares.

You are taking one true statement about the ONE God of the Bible - which is the Father and also the Son and the Holy Spirit -- showing that the Father is the ONE God ... but not showing that the Son and the Holy Spirit are not also in that term as the Bible uses it... YHWH. In fact YHWH is applied to Christ as well.
 
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BobRyan

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I could answer that easily, but what is the point? Here is a hint, the answer is in John17:3

Hint read more Bible --

John 17
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was

Isaiah 42:8
8 I am the LORD (YHWH), that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.
 
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Karola

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I think I will leave you to it. As allways, you will write anything, and I do mean anything to defend your errant doctrines
 
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Karola

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That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent John17:3

Has the penny dropped yet?????
 
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BobRyan

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I could answer that easily, but what is the point? Here is a hint, the answer is in John17:3

Hint read more Bible --

John 17
5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was

Isaiah 42:8
8 I am the LORD (YHWH), that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.

I think I will leave you to it.
As allways, you will write anything, and I do mean anything to defend your errant doctrines

In real life - I am the one admitting to the Bible detail about the Triune Godhead "Father , Son and Holy Spirit" and in real life - I am the one admitting that God's Ten commandments are included in what is called the "moral law of God" that is... the Law that defines what sin is 1John 3:4.

This is the same thing almost every major Christian denomination on planet Earth admits is in the Bible.

If your argument is that you-alone have truth and all Christendom is in error on these doctrines - well.. you have free will go on down that road if you wish.
 
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Karola

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Bye Bob, this is hardly stimulating discussion
 
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Karola

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One wonders what reply you would get, if you pointed out Jesus referred to the Father as ''My God'' whilst on earth and once he had returned to Heaven. And then asked the question:
Who is the God of the one true omnipotent God?
 
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YeshuaFan

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The Christian is under the Lord's day of rest unto us now unde rthe new Covenant.
 
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YeshuaFan

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I like what nearly all prefcaes to transaltions state, that their biggest desire would be to have the scriptures directly one to Jesus, the One to whom they point towards!
 
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YeshuaFan

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The creation day sabbtah was designed into the creation itrself, the one day in 7, as we under the NC have that Day set aside as being Sunday. The LBCF 1689 that I support tels us that Sunday is the Lord's day, and our Sabbath!
 
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BibleloverBill

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The Prayer of Jabez for a Church Member to Use


(compiled by Bill Stevenson-- May 31, 2001 & updated on October 8, 2017)



Note: Quotations are from the book “The Prayer of Jabez” by Bruce Wilkinson.


1. “Oh, that You would bless me indeed”-- Oh compassionate, generous God please bless the church I attend with Your wonderful, unlimited goodness that only You have the power to know about or give to it. Of course it is up to You to decide what the blessing will be, and where, when, and how my church will receive. I trust You completely, wanting nothing more and nothing less than what You want to give it. I seek Your blessings as the ultimate value in life because I just want to say and do what You want. I am so thankful for all of the past blessings from You. My life is Your’s and I want it to bring more glory to You on Earth.

2. “and enlarge my territory”-- God Almighty, enlarge my life so that I can make a greater impact for You. “O God and King, please expand my opportunities and my impact in such a way that I touch more lives for Your glory. Let me do more for You!” I want to live out my faith much much more for others, especially the people I attend church with. I want You to give me “divine appointments” for doing the good works that You already have planned for me to do, ministering to those in need of spiritual encouragement, counsel, or/and exhortation. I trust in the Holy Spirit’s guidance and Your divine strength and wisdom. With Your love, eliminate all fears that come into my mind in these new experiences and give me Your courage. I will praise You for the miracles that happen during and after my ministry opportunities.

3. “that Your hand would be with me”-- God, I need You so much in order to live for You more and more. Please release Your power to accomplish Your will, so that You will be glorified through seeming impossibilities of future ministries for me to do. Sustain and continue the great things that You have begun in my life. “Father, please do this in me because I can’t do it alone. It’s too big for me!” I will step out in faith with supernatural enthusiasm, boldness, and power to do and say whatever the Holy Spirit tells me. I want to depend completely on You, Abba Father.

4. “and that You would keep me from evil.”-- God, the great Protector, I ask for safe-keeping from evil for me and the other church members. Because I easily trust others, especially those who seem friendly and respectful, I am easily taken advantage of or mislead. I only want to say and do what pleases You and learn/remember only eternal truths. Adam and Eve and many other believers in You in the Bible were deceived about eternal truths and I have been too many times, so help me via the Holy Spirit, the Bible, true Christian friends, and Your angels if necessary to keep me on the narrow road of righteousness to Heaven. “Lord, keep me from making the mistakes I’m most prone to when temptation comes. I confess that what I think is necessary, smart, or personally beneficial is so often only the beautiful wrapping on sin. So please, keep evil far from me!” “Lord, keep me safe from the pain and grief that sin brings. For the dangers that I can’t see, or the ones that I think I can risk because of my experience (pride and carelessness), put up a supernatural barrier. Protect me, Father, by Your power!” “Lord, keep me safe from temptations that pull at my emotions and my physical needs, that call out to my sense of what I deserve, what I have the ‘right’ to feel and enjoy. Because You are the true source of all that is really life, direct my steps away from all that is not of You.” Finally, God, I know that You can’t protect me and the other church members completely from the wiles of the spiritual and human enemies, so please help me put on the Ephesians 6:10-18 spiritual armor by reminding me via the Holy Spirit of Your Truth, Righteousness, the Gospel, Faith, Salvation, and Your other promises. Thank You for future blessings and Great Commission assignments.
 
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bekkilyn

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I like what nearly all prefcaes to transaltions state, that their biggest desire would be to have the scriptures directly one to Jesus, the One to whom they point towards!

It baffles me how it's so obvious that all the scriptures, covenants, prophecies, etc. all point to Jesus and yet people still don't think Jesus is enough. It really couldn't be more clear once you really start looking at the whole of all of it and reasons why God did what he did at various points in time.
 
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bekkilyn

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I am glad you understand the definition here.

Never using one scripture to "delete" another.

That's what cherry-picking tends to do, even if unintentionally.

and so ignoring entire section of the Bible because they do not agree with "feelings" is not even remotely "exegesis". Rather it is "eisegesis".

I'm not sure where you keep getting all these "feelings" from you keep complaining about, unless you are upset by the idea that written scripture is only one of many ways that God communicates his messages to us. Other ways have been through prophets and directly through the Holy Spirit, as just two examples.

In the case of the Bible Sabbath it is very clear - beyond all question,

Which is apparently why there are so many questions and disagreements over it, obvously.

1. It was made for mankind Mark 2:27

Yes, the ritual weekly sabbath was made specifically for the Israelites at Sinai and *their* descendants (and *not* with their ancestors, i.e. Moses, Abraham, etc.) The true sabbath, embodied by Jesus Christ himself, and who the weekly ritual sabbath was pointing to came to earth for humankind. The ritual sabbath was *created* for a specific purpose, and Jesus Christ, who is our rest if only we receive him, is the *begotten* Son of God, who is, was, and ever shall be.

2. It is one of the TEN commandments - Ex 20:8-11 and is the seventh day

No disagreement here. It is one of the commandments in a covenant that was rendered obsolete by Jesus, who fulfilled it.

3. It is still in force for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth for all mankind Is 66:23

The ritual weekly sabbath was only temporary. Until Jesus came to fulfill it's purpose. Old heaven and earth (which represents Jerusalem) passed away. Both the Temple (as Jesus predicted) and Jerusalem were destroyed in 70AD.

Now the *true* sabbath, being Jesus Christ, who was pointed to in earlier scriptures is of course eternal, and we rest in him when we receive him into our hearts.

4. Gentiles are specifically singled out even in the OT for Sabbath keeping - Isaiah 56:6-8

First, Christ hadn't come yet when Isaiah was written, so the Sinai covenant was still active. Second, these are not Gentile converts to *Christianity*. These are people who have either decided to convert to Judaism or follow Jewish traditions. Gentiles who converted from *paganism* directly to Christianity were never under the old covenant and were not to be Judaized, according to Paul in Galatians.

Remember the central message in Christian scriptures is *Jesus Christ* who is our good news (gospel) and our faith concerns the real *event* of his resurrection.
 
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BobRyan

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The creation day Sabbtah was designed into the creation itrself, the one day in 7, as we under the NC have that Day set aside as being Sunday. The LBCF 1689 that I support tels us that Sunday is the Lord's day, and our Sabbath!

And so they teach that the Sabbath is still binding on all mankind - and still part of the Ten Commandments - the Law of God written on the heart.

But tell me truthfully - wouldn't it "also be nice" to have that statement of yours above - in the actual Bible??
 
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BobRyan

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However, you do need to take the whole of scripture into account when interpreting the parts of it,

Indeed - exegesis requires that we take the intent of the author, the context of his statement - the obvious meaning to his primary audience, what he has said on the same subject in other parts of the Bible and also what other Bible writers say on the same subject.

Never using one scripture to "delete" another.



and so ignoring entire section of the Bible because they do not agree with "feelings" is not even remotely "exegesis". Rather it is "eisegesis".

In the case of the Bible Sabbath it is very clear - beyond all question,

1. It was made for mankind Mark 2:27
2. It is one of the TEN commandments - Ex 20:8-11 and is the seventh day
3. It is still in force for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth for all mankind Is 66:23
4. Gentiles are specifically singled out even in the OT for Sabbath keeping - Isaiah 56:6-8

The entire compilation of scripture as we know it has a central message, and if your interpretation conflicts with that message, then something is very awry with it.

I am glad you understand the definition here.

It is good to find some sliver of agreement - no matter how thin.

The ritual weekly sabbath was only temporary.

Ahhh yes - your "creative writing skills"... I keep forgetting about that.
 
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BobRyan

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In the case of the Bible Sabbath it is very clear - beyond all question,

1. It was made for mankind Mark 2:27
2. It is one of the TEN commandments - Ex 20:8-11 and is the seventh day
3. It is still in force for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth for all mankind Is 66:23
4. Gentiles are specifically singled out even in the OT for Sabbath keeping - Isaiah 56:6-8

First, Christ hadn't come yet when Isaiah was written, so the Sinai covenant was still active.

"Active" -- for "gentiles"??

Creative writing is starting to strain your argument.
 
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bekkilyn

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Ahhh yes - your "creative writing skills"... I keep forgetting about that.

Scripture can be pretty creative, I agree. In fact, God himself is pretty creative too, considering that he created everything.

"Active" -- for "gentiles"??

Creative writing is starting to strain your argument.

The old covenant is active for the descendants of the Israelites at Sinai, and Gentile *converts* to *Judaism* would be included as if they were Jewish by birth. None of this has anything to do with Christians.

If you think this is "creative writing" then point out where all the Christians are in these Isaiah verses you quoted and we can discuss them specifically. Maybe a few of Jesus' apostles found a "Way Back" machine after Jesus' resurrection and traveled back in time or something like that. Now that would be a very creative tale indeed!
 
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BobRyan

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Scripture can be pretty creative

Not if you just accept what it says instead of inserting preference and spin into it.

God himself is pretty creative too, so then we accurately convey what He has creatively written in scripture - instead of quoting-self, making stuff up, engaging in creative writing instead of accurate reading.

etc.



If you think this is "creative writing" then point out where all the Christians are in these Isaiah verses you quoted !

1 Cor 10:4
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

1 Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow

Heb 4:1-2 "WE have had the gospel preached to us just as THEY also"
 
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mmksparbud

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Computer going kaput---out trying to get fixed for almost a week--no can do. Have to get new one soon---



Last I was commenting on was that people seem to think that the Holy Spirit has informed no one of the Sabbath except through "ink"----I posted this and wonder why no one commented on it.
God has His Spirit everywhere:

God prepares Northwest Alaska

In 1867, God was working within the hearts of Inupiat people while the United States negotiated the purchase of Alaska from Russia. Although that contract was ridiculed and called Steward’s Folly because Secretary of State Steward bargained for what was termed a worthless frozen wilderness, God was instructing an Inupiat native (popularly called Eskimos) named Maniilaq in changes that would forever affect these people. God esteems them more precious than minerals and petroleum an industrialized society coveted.
This prophet Maniilaq knew God was speaking and although he was belittled and scorned, a time would come when his contemporaries understood unseen forces loved them. These Eskimos would soon learn how modern conveniences could lessen their everyday cares and about a cosmic conflict where choices have eternal consequences.

A day to keep sacred

One day in seven, later known to be Saturday, the Sabbath, Maniilaq’s beating drum echoed in the hostile wilderness calling his people to a place where he foretold of unimagined changes. Like the children of Israel elevating a serpentine pole in the wilderness, Maniilaq elevated a staff with a dead animal’s skin attached indicating Saturday was a sacred day. It was also time for Eskimo people to hear of God’s plans. It was God’s Son whose body was also elevated upon what was called the death on a tree. His sacrificial death became the substitutional cloak for humankind’s unworthiness.

Some revelations are still future

Maniilaq’s revelations were and are for everyone. When associated with Bible prophecies, they reveal God’s providential care for His entire creation. This allows humanity to prepare for coming food shortages, higher ocean levels after glacial ice melts, and an apocalyptic climax to scriptures that none can escape.

Lifestyle, social and religious change

In the mid 1800s these Eskimos knew nothing of the government to the south that purchased their homeland. Never hearing of a white man, the Ten-Commandments, or Jesus, yet similar to John the Baptist’s mission to Israel, the prophet Maniilaq prepared Eskimos for important lifestyle and social changes. Terror had gripped natives of other Inupiat tribes who first saw white-faced men yet those who heard Maniilaq were composed.
In a wooing manner, God spoke softly to Maniilaq, telling of the Father and Son above who are the Source of intelligence and thought. Then God revealed to him even greater truths.

Natives elsewhere hear of God

Maniilaq’s story reminds us of other visionaries in isolated locations where God similarly prepared natives to receive His Sabbath truth and learn of Christ’s great sacrifice for humanity.

God prepares South America

Perhaps the most famous such case among Sabbath-keeping Christians is the tribe of Davis Indians in South America. Nearly a century ago, Chief Auka was told by a divine being to hang a rope with seven knots, resting weekly on the day of the last knot—this being Saturday. This shining angel introduced them to the seventh-day Sabbath long before Sabbath-keeping Pastor Davis worked with these natives.
They were vegetarians and looked for a white man carrying a book telling about God. So much of Chief Auka’s tribe were already aware of Bible truths. They kept telling Pastor Davis, “We already know this, teach us something new.” This remote tribe is quite civilized today and speaks English fluently.

God prepares African natives

The Bushman Sekuba, an African of the mid 1900s, is another native prophet. A glowing being told him to travel eastward to find the Sabbath-keeping pastor Moyo who had a black book explaining about God. After hiking more than one hundred miles, a cloud appeared in the distance and led him another hundred miles to an Adventist missionary compound. There Sekuba received a Bible (that he could miraculously read). Those at the compound kept a Saturday-Sabbath and possessed the Ellen White, “Testimonies”, as the angel had instructed.

Maniilaq revered God’s Sabbath

Most biographies about Maniilaq are written by Sunday-keepers. These chronicles report he observed one-day-in-seven, thinking it was Sunday. Quakers were the first to evangelize the Inupiat; sometime afterward they changed to Sunday observance.

Inupiat elders hold Maniilaq in the highest regard as a true prophet of God. To preserve his history for future generations, in 1978 Eskimos who knew of Maniilaq were invited to speak at The Nana Elders Conference. This meeting was transcribed and is similar to our Bible that preserves ancient history of God’s dealings with humanity.
In this document, an Eskimo named Aqsivaabruk is quoted as remembering earlier years when they kept Saturday sacred because Maniilaq rested every seventh-day.
Initially the Inupiat were confused on Maniilaq resting. Accusing him of being lazy, he responded by saying he kept the commandments of his heavenly Grandfather. Then Aqsivaabruk recalls how his people later followed the teachings of those who changed their Sabbath to Sunday.
How easy it is to adopt the teachings of authority figures in the church who, like the priests of Jesus’ day, “nail jots and tittles” of God’s law to the cross (Matthew 5:18). It is imperative we do not follow the traditions of men but obey Christ who said: “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:9).
 
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