SDA

mmksparbud · Oct 11, 2018

"People cannot be sanctified except on Sunday, that Christ transferred Sabbath sacredness to Sunday, that only those who keep Sunday belong to Christ, that only on Sunday does the risen Lord makes himself present among his followers, that only these worship God properly, and that may Sunday regain all its importance." (Letter of Pope Benedict XVI to Card. Francis Arinze on the Occasion of the Study Day in Honour of the 43rd Anniversary of the Promulgation of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, From the Vatican, November 27, 2006.)

"Sunday is a day of rest for all workers." (Address of Pope Benedict XVI to the Italian Christian Workers' Associations (A.C.L.I.), Clementine Hall, Friday, January 27, 2006.)

"Saturday is no longer the worship day of God, only on Sunday can we become part of the body of Christ in the world, only by worshiping on Sunday can we avoid egoistic isolation and instead be united in a great community...a universal community becoming related to everyone in the world." (Meeting with Diocesan Clergy of Aosta, Address of Pope Benedict XVI, Parish Church at Introd (Aosta Valley), Monday, July 25, 2005.)

"Every Sunday is to be dedicated and given to God." (Mass on the Solemnity of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Homily of Pope Benedict XVI, given in Parish Church of Castel Gandolfo, Monday, August 15, 2005.)

"Only on Sunday can we experience a personal encounter with Christ." (Apostolic Journey of Pope Benedict XVI to Brazil on the Occasion of the Fifth General Conference of the Bishops of Latin America and the Carribbean, Inaugural Session, Address of Pope Benedict XVI, Conference Hall, Shrine of Aparecida, Sunday, May 13, 2007.)

Now two countries of the European Union have declared “Sunday” as the national day of rest.Croatia passed it as law effective January 1, 2009 after a long campaign by the Catholic Church. Germany reconfirmed it as law beginning of 2010, although it has been on the books for many decades. Their reasoning is that it is the proper day of rest and gathering for Christians to worship.

New Italian Government plans to put Ban on Sunday shopping (September 2018)

"The new Italian government will introduce a ban on Sunday shopping in large commercial centres before the end of the year as it seeks to defend family traditions, Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio said on Sunday. In a bid to spur economic growth, the then Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti liberalised Sunday trading in 2012, despite pressure from the Roman Catholic Church and unions who said the country needed to keep its traditional day of rest ... Earlier this year, Poland restricted Sunday shopping as the conservative government in Warsaw pushed ahead with what it said was a return to Roman Catholic values."

Taking Sunday Seriously - Poland 'leads the way in providing an EXAMPLE TO AMERICA' (April 2018)

"Sunday has just become a little less busy in Poland, thanks to a new law banning most commercial shopping that took effect in March. And Poland's move, which bucks the prevailing trend in secularized countries toward an ever-more commercialized Sunday, could provide a constructive example for the United States, where the network of state 'blue laws' that once restricted Sunday business activities has been substantially reduced."

European Sunday Alliance calls on all its supporters to take action against Sunday Work (March 2018)

"The European Sunday Alliance is convinced that working on Sundays endangers the health and safety of workers as well as the social cohesion in our societies ... Only a well-protected common work-free day per week enables citizens to enjoy full participation in cultural, sports, social and religious life and allows for reconciliation. That is why the European Sunday Alliance commits itself to safeguarding a work-free Sunday."

New Jersey Mayor says Protecting Sunday Blue Laws "will always be his number one priority" (January 2018)

"Responding to a recent opinion article by NorthJersey.com correspondent Jackie Goldschneider, the mayor said that protecting the blue laws, which prohibit shoppers from purchasing certain items on Sundays, 'has always been and will continue to be my number one priority ... As long as I am in office, the protection of our beloved blue walls will always be priority number one."

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

It is not what we believe--never has been. We are justified by grace when we accept Jesus. Period. The work of sanctification is a lifelong process. We, out of love for God, uphold His commandments which He wrote with His own hand through the power of Jesus dwelling in us.
With Him in you--you can not sin for He alone can help you do His will in all things. It is a journey to have our characters resemble that of Jesus--sometimes we stumble--but Jesus will pick us up and forgive us and we keep on going on our journey. There is a difference between stumbling and falling down and staying down. Repentance means turning away from sin, so stumbling is not the same as having a sinful lifestyle. It is not how many times one has stumbled, but are you still climbing upwards in building your character to resemble that of Christ.
1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

When He writes His law in your heart, it is engraved into it. And the Holy Spirit fills you with the knowledge of the implications of His law. Jesus expounded on the commandments, He did not diminish them. From the spirit it is seen that adultery is not a matter of the act itself but of the spirit of the law-- --the condition of the heart--beyond the letter of the law--
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
1Jn_1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We do believe that the bible is the final authority on doctrine. All of it, not just a certain portion or verse--all of it. which means you do not take 1or 2 verses and build up a doctrine out that but out of all that is written.

He has 10 commandments --and they are all spiritually expounded upon as was adultery--not just the letter of the law, but the spirit. As such we do hold that the 4th is still one of the 10 and to be honored by upholding it for it was made holy--and sanctified by Jesus Himself as the creator of all and was made holy only through that act of God and He alone can make something holy and no man has the right to make of non-effect what God has ordained holy from creation itself.

Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

This again is not true. We teach what Christ taught---the spirit of the law which Jesus expounded on as stated above. It is not us that keep His law, that obey His will in our lives--but Jesus dwelling in us. It is through Him that we overcome.

Act_5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Gal_3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

What God asks you to do, He will empower you to do. It is through faith in Jesus.

Even to keep repeating ''You must obey the Ten Commandments'' shows a religion dominated by the letter, not the Holy Spirit. The law is within you, it is part of who you are. No Christian needs to be told what the law is, or that they need to obey it, for it is in their heart.
And I am sorry, but to insist you must follow a seventh day sabbath, simply shows a life not filled with the Holy Spirit but one following after the letter. I feel for you, but as you are not willing or desiring to change, what can I say?
The letter will always kill, unless you are someone who can harden your heart, numb it against what the law within shows you.

mmksparbud · Oct 11, 2018

Karola said:
Even to keep repeating ''You must obey the Ten Commandments'' shows a religion dominated by the letter, not the Holy Spirit. The law is within you, it is part of who you are. No Christian needs to be told what the law is, or that they need to obey it, for it is in their heart.
And I am sorry, but to insist you must follow a seventh day sabbath, simply shows a life not filled with the Holy Spirit but one following after the letter. I feel for you, but as you are not willing or desiring to change, what can I say?
The letter will always kill, unless you are someone who can harden your heart, numb it against what the law within shows you.

You are entitled to your opinions. A life that is filled with the Spirit will be manifested by their fruits--
Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Eph_5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

Refusing the promptings of the Holy Spirit will always lead to a grieving away of the Holy Spirit. Lack of the Holy Spirit will lead to spiritual death. As with most things---time will tell.

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

mmksparbud said:
You are entitled to your opinions. A life that is filled with the Spirit will be manifested by their fruits--
Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

That is true. Quote the next verse:
Against such things there is no law.

Why are sinfull passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it? Rom7:5

Why, could sin take occasion of the commandment Thou shalt not covet to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul the Pharisee?

Why is the power of sin the law? 1Cor15:56

You cannot answer the above questions either can you? You see, it is one thing to endlessly quote the letter, quite another to being able to discern the message in it.
There was a time I endlessly quoted the letter off pat too, but then I could not have answered those questions either.
Am I smarter than you? I am sure I am not, only got an average IQ But there is following after the Holy Spirit and following after the written code. You cannot do both at the same time

bekkilyn · Oct 11, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Again--if the Holy Spirit convicts you of something and you do not do it--then it is sin. No one but God can read the heart.

If not observing a seventh day Sabbath is a universal sin, then why would the Holy Spirit not be convicting all Christians everywhere to observe it? Why would the new testament not mention it even once as a commandment? (And I don't mean mentioning it in a parable or in the context of a pre-new-covenant Jewish scenario...I mean as an actual CLEAR commandment that no one could dispute because it is so clearly stated.)

At the time of the beast then it comes down to whom you will obey--God or man.

Well sure, but it seems very unlikely that God is going to condemn people who are genuinely worshiping him, regardless of what day they choose to worship him on.

God says this is my sign of my creative power.,

I agree it is a sign, but it is the sign of the specific covenant he made with the Israelites at Sinai so that they would live long in the land that he provided to them. It's not a sign of any covenant he made with Gentiles or with the ancestors of the Israelites at Sinai.

He declared it at creation--this is My day created this day in celebration of my power and for the benefit of man.

The creation stories do not state that he commanded anyone to observe a sabbath day previous to the temporary covenant he made with the Israelites at Sinai.

It is He that makes anything Holy. No man can decide what is Holy--God makes that decision. Moses had to remove his shoes when in the presence of God for His presence made the place Holy--Moses couldn't declare it Holy--only God.

God didn't beat around the bush (haha) in directly informing Moses what he wanted him to do. If he had wanted us to observe a sabbath day, he would tell us. Jesus would tell us. All the apostles would tell us. The book of Acts would focus on it. If there was something so crucial that we need to know, it would be shouted from the rooftops and the gospels would surely mention it in something other than a roundabout way. Jesus would have taught about it in his Sermon on the Mount. The fact that observing a sabbath day is very obviously missing from all of these things seems very suspicious.

At the time of the beast it is the beast that sets his mark and God sets His and it is up to us to decide whom we will follow. The mark of the beast is on our forehead---the seat of the mind---or the hand---
the hand indicative of action---in other words--no one will be able to say, I will just pretend to follow the beast but in my heart I won't be--`You can not feign allegiance--it is either to God or man.
Luk_11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

No problem with this statement in general, though I know we disagree about what the mark is.

We do not define the seal of God--He does.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Except for Jesus has defined the seal for Christians and it is not the sabbath, which is the sign of the specific covenant God made with the Israelites at Sinai. The seal of the new covenant is the Holy Spirit.

*Quotes from a bunch of Catholic stuff deleted for brevity*

Why would non-Catholics care about any of those things. Christians observe the first day of the week because it is a celebration of Christ's resurrection, and generally do not observe a sabbath day at all, or if they do, it need not be on any particular day of the week, Sunday included. Christ himself is our rest.

If the Catholic church believes they replaced the Saturday sabbath with something else, that's their view, but has little to nothing to do with what non-Catholics believe. Christians have been meeting on the first day of the week since the apostles as is described in the new testament. Practically every important event in the new testament also happened on the first day of the week.

Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.

So recognizing Jesus' birth and death and resurrection are all Catholic things? Nope, Christians were celebrating these events long before there were any Popes or Catholic churches even if they weren't always on the same days of the year.

As much as SDA want to believe that all "Sunday keepers" are under the authority of the Pope. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.

Written by a Catholic bishop, so not exactly free of bias. It's denominational narcissism.

You bring up all of this Catholic stuff, but it has absolutely no authority or meaning to anyone except perhaps to other Catholics. To define all of non-SDA Christianity by Catholicism isn't even close to accurate.

Natsumi Lam · Oct 11, 2018

Karola said:
Even to keep repeating ''You must obey the Ten Commandments'' shows a religion dominated by the letter, not the Holy Spirit. The law is within you, it is part of who you are. No Christian needs to be told what the law is, or that they need to obey it, for it is in their heart.
And I am sorry, but to insist you must follow a seventh day sabbath, simply shows a life not filled with the Holy Spirit but one following after the letter. I feel for you, but as you are not willing or desiring to change, what can I say?
The letter will always kill, unless you are someone who can harden your heart, numb it against what the law within shows you.

If the law is written on your heart as you say through the Holy Spirit He will also lead you to keep the Sabbath holy.

Though the old testiment speaks of the prohibitation of homosexuality our Holy Spirit still convicts the hesrt to obstain.

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
If the law is written on your heart as you say through the Holy Spirit He will also lead you to keep the Sabbath holy.

.

It is not what I say, it is what the bible states. The Spirit of the living God writes the law in your heart and mind God wants you to follow. It is not a law written in ink for the believer.
What about the other six days, can we be unholy then?

Natsumi Lam · Oct 11, 2018

Karola said:
It is not what I say, it is what the bible states. The Spirit of the living God writes the law in your heart and mind God wants you to follow. It is not a law written in ink for the believer.
What about the other six days, can we be unholy then?

To keep the sabbath holy does not give one allowance to sin like murder the rest of the week because that law of tho shalt not murder is another commandment written on our hearts.

To keep on thing holy has nothing to do with the permissability of sin the rest of the week.

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

Natsumi Lam said:
To keep the sabbath holy does not give one allowance to sin like murder the rest of the week because that law is another commandment written on our hearts.

Yep, not to murder is written on our hearts. So is having no other gods before our Father in heaven. What is a god? A statue like Baal? Or anything we might give first place to in our lives at times apart from our Father in Heaven?

mmksparbud · Oct 11, 2018

Karola said:
That is true. Quote the next verse:
Against such things there is no law.

Why are sinfull passions aroused in people by the law if they live under it? Rom7:5

Why, could sin take occasion of the commandment Thou shalt not covet to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul the Pharisee?

Why is the power of sin the law? 1Cor15:56

You cannot answer the above questions either can you? You see, it is one thing to endlessly quote the letter, quite another to being able to discern the message in it.
There was a time I endlessly quoted the letter off pat too, but then I could not have answered those questions either.
Am I smarter than you? I am sure I am not, only got an average IQ But there is following after the Holy Spirit and following after the written code. You cannot do both at the same time

Why are sinful passions aroused in people supposedly led by the Holy Spirit? Happens all the time. Many of those TV evangelists that fell from grace supposedly were led by the Spirit.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
is reminiscent of what Paul wrote in Romans 7:8-12: "But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

It is the law that shows sin--and to expound on it, through the Holy Spirit, it is even more powerful to show us how deep sin runs. It is not just the letter of the law, but the spirit as Jesus said. It is not the law that is the problem, it is man's sinful nature--which through the power of Jesus Christ we can overcome.

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Why are sinful passions aroused in people supposedly led by the Holy Spirit? Happens all the time. Many of those TV evangelists that fell from grace supposedly were led by the Spirit.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
is reminiscent of what Paul wrote in Romans 7:8-12: "But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

It is the law that shows sin--and to expound on it, through the Holy Spirit, it is even more powerful to show us how deep sin runs. It is not just the letter of the law, but the spirit as Jesus said. It is not the law that is the problem, it is man's sinful nature--which through the power of Jesus Christ we can overcome.

I asked you why sin could take occasion of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul(why)
So why are sinfull passions aroused in you by the law if you live under it?(rom7:5) Expanded on in verse8

When the law was given sin increased Rom5:20
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 Scripture complementing scripture, all telling us the same thing

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Why are sinful passions aroused in people supposedly led by the Holy Spirit? Happens all the time. Many of those TV evangelists that fell from grace supposedly were led by the Spirit.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
is reminiscent of what Paul wrote in Romans 7:8-12: "But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good."

It is the law that shows sin--and to expound on it, through the Holy Spirit, it is even more powerful to show us how deep sin runs. It is not just the letter of the law, but the spirit as Jesus said. It is not the law that is the problem, it is man's sinful nature--which through the power of Jesus Christ we can overcome.

You see, you are not like LGW and bobryan(I assume from what you write). They believe you are not under the condemnation of the law so long as you do not break it. You are not justified by the law but can only be in a justified state if you do not break the law. Your sins and lawless deeds will only be remembered no more providing you do not break the law.
So here is the thing, in the real world, outside of head theology, anyone who believes what they say will surely live their life under justification of obeying the law. Now I guess you cannot admit that, for you must try and be unified with their belief, as you are a member of their denomination, but it should not be hard to understand. You then give sin power over your life, according to what is written in the bible

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace romans6:14

Obviously the power of sin must have been removed from your life if you live under grace, for then sin shall not be your master. So what has gone? Has God abolished the fact he does not want you to, steal, lie, murder, take his name in vain etc? No, God will never abolish that, he put that law in your heart. So what has changed for the power of sin to be removed from your life?

This is what changed:

Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more

The true power of sin is the penalty attached to the law if you break it. Remove that, and you remove sins power from the individuals life, hence:

Do we then nullify the law by this faith(righteousness of faith in Christ not obeying the law) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom3:31

mmksparbud · Oct 11, 2018

bekkilyn said:
If not observing a seventh day Sabbath is a universal sin, then why would the Holy Spirit not be convicting all Christians everywhere to observe it? Why would the new testament not mention it even once as a commandment? (And I don't mean mentioning it in a parable or in the context of a pre-new-covenant Jewish scenario...I mean as an actual CLEAR commandment that no one could dispute because it is so clearly stated.)

God declared His day--as He told Adam and Eve--don't eat of that tree--it was plain enough--the 4th is plain enough--it is clearly stated.

bekkilyn said:
Well sure, but it seems very unlikely that God is going to condemn people who are genuinely worshiping him, regardless of what day they choose to worship him on.

Seems highly unlikely for God to get all riled up about a piece of fruit. He said don't do it--they did. He said worship me this day--enough said. Cain didn't think it was a big deal to worship God his own way either.

bekkilyn said:
I agree it is a sign, but it is the sign of the specific covenant he made with the Israelites at Sinai so that they would live long in the land that he provided to them. It's not a sign of any covenant he made with Gentiles or with the ancestors of the Israelites at Sinai.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There were no Jews in the Garden of Eden when He established it.

bekkilyn said:
The creation stories do not state that he commanded anyone to observe a sabbath day previous to the temporary covenant he made with the Israelites at Sinai.

And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: What do you think He meant by that seeing as the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath?
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

bekkilyn said:
God didn't beat around the bush (haha) in directly informing Moses what he wanted him to do. If he had wanted us to observe a sabbath day, he would tell us. Jesus would tell us. All the apostles would tell us. The book of Acts would focus on it. If there was something so crucial that we need to know, it would be shouted from the rooftops and the gospels would surely mention it in something other than a roundabout way. Jesus would have taught about it in his Sermon on the Mount. The fact that observing a sabbath day is very obviously missing from all of these things seems very suspicious.

He did--it's called the 4th commandment.
The apostles didn't have to shout it out--they lived it as did Jesus---They were Jews! There was almost a civil war when they said circumcision was no longer needed---had that been the case with the Sabbath, another very Sacred thing to all of them--WWW 1 would have erupted. But since nobody said such aa thing--why would it need to be mentioned?

bekkilyn said:
Except for Jesus has defined the seal for Christians and it is not the sabbath, which is the sign of the specific covenant God made with the Israelites at Sinai. The seal of the new covenant is the Holy Spirit.

The mark of the beast has to do with worship--obviously, since it says "and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
Since it is about worshiping what is obviously not God--which in itself is breaking another commandment--"thou shalt have no other gods before me" -- why would you think this has anything to do with covenant's?

bekkilyn said:
Why would non-Catholics care about any of those things. Christians observe the first day of the week because it is a celebration of Christ's resurrection, and generally do not observe a sabbath day at all, or if they do, it need not be on any particular day of the week, Sunday included. Christ himself is our rest.

If the Catholic church believes they replaced the Saturday sabbath with something else, that's their view, but has little to nothing to do with what non-Catholics believe. Christians have been meeting on the first day of the week since the apostles as is described in the new testament. Practically every important event in the new testament also happened on the first day of the week.

No, the apostles did not meet on the 1st day of the week to worship on Sunday. There is not one verse that states they worshiped on that day. The reason RCC can claim they changed the day is because they did. The disciples did not, nor did Jesus. Name one verse that states The first day if the week will now be the new Sabbath in honor of my resurrection? Anything that God made Holy, can only be made unholy by Him. He wrote it, Jesus would have clearly said He changed it. Never did.
As to why non-Catholics are wanting this--because they follow tradition instead of the plain it is written. Doesn't matter to them, t's a day off. I personally don't care what day of the week the Sabbath day is--could be Tuesday for all I care---who it does matter to, and who said it is this day only---is God--And Him I don't think I will argue with about it. He made it Holy--that is enough for me.

bekkilyn said:
Written by a Catholic bishop, so not exactly free of bias. It's denominational narcissism.

You bring up all of this Catholic stuff, but it has absolutely no authority or meaning to anyone except perhaps to other Catholics. To define all of non-SDA Christianity by Catholicism isn't even close to accurate.

It has all the legal authority of the governments of those countries. And by government decree---it affects every single citizen of those countries. It is the law of the land. It is not SDA that define Christianity--it is the RCC by law defining Christianity. Denominational narcissism---always has been.

bekkilyn said:
So recognizing Jesus' birth and death and resurrection are all Catholic things? Nope, Christians were celebrating these events long before there were any Popes or Catholic churches even if they weren't always on the same days of the year.

As much as SDA want to believe that all "Sunday keepers" are under the authority of the Pope. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yep--they just did not change the commandment of God.
It will be--it is their aim, always has been. There have been several Protestant churches that have gone back to the RCC-- also in the UK--it is what the ecumenical movement is all about--unity--but under the Pope.

mmksparbud · Oct 11, 2018

Karola said:
I asked you why sin could take occasion of the commandment to arouse all manner of concupiscence in Saul(why)
So why are sinfull passions aroused in you by the law if you live under it?(rom7:5) Expanded on in verse8

When the law was given sin increased Rom5:20
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 Scripture complementing scripture, all telling us the same thing

It means sin became more visible -- it was seen more fully as the Spirit expanded on the law. Again, why are sinful passions aroused in those who are led by the Spirit--because we have a sinful nature through Jesus Christ is the only way to overcome.

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

God told Moses the Israelites were a stiff necked people who would soon desert him once they reached the promised land. So often they sought almost mechanically to obey, but their hearts were far from God. Time after time they rebelled against him, got into a mess, and then cried out to him for his help, and he rescued them from their enemies

Under such circumstances, it is easy to understand why God set aside a particular day for them to contemplate on his goodness to them, and be grateful for it.

But under the new covenant our hearts have been softened, the Holy Spirit dwells in believers, and Father and Son through him. Believers will instinctively meditate on God every day of the week, for he lives in them through the Spirit. They will be grateful every day for what God has done in them through his son. The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment is upheld in born again believers seven days a week!

And so Paul states:

One man considers one day more sacred/holy that another, another man considers every day alike, each one should be fully convinced in his own mind Rom14:5

But those who follow after the letter of the law will never accept it, for they, by doing so cannot follow after the Holy Spirit, it really is one or the other(Rom7:5)

mmksparbud · Oct 11, 2018

Karola said:
You see, you are not like LGW and bobryan(I assume from what you write). They believe you are not under the condemnation of the law so long as you do not break it. You are not justified by the law but can only be in a justified state if you do not break the law. Your sins and lawless deeds will only be remembered no more providing you do not break the law.
So here is the thing, in the real world, outside of head theology, anyone who believes what they say will surely live their life under justification of obeying the law. Now I guess you cannot admit that, for you must try and be unified with their belief, as you are a member of their denomination, but it should not be hard to understand. You then give sin power over your life, according to what is written in the bible

I know one thing---LGW and bobryan do not believe what you think they do! They believe what I have stated, not what you think they said! With Jesus in you--you can not sin. But if you do--God is faithful to forgive. Sin has no power over the life of a Christian. Satan is a defeated foe--He was defeated at the cross. We have only our sinful nature to overcome--through Jesus.

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

The power of sin is the law(righteousness of obeying the law)
So God did an amazing thing. He transferred the law he wants you to follow from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3) Because he did that, he then removed the true power of sin from your life, righteousness of obeying the law)
The born again Christians heartfelt desire to obey(for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience(sin) was dealt a crushing blow by Christ dying to remove its true power from your life. So Paul states
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

mmksparbud said:
I know one thing---LGW and bobryan do not believe what you think they do!

Really, why not ask them, let's see if they obey the Ten Commandments when responding

Karola · Oct 11, 2018

mmksparbud said:
It means sin became more visible -- it was seen more fully as the Spirit expanded on the law. Again, why are sinful passions aroused in those who are led by the Spirit--because we have a sinful nature through Jesus Christ is the only way to overcome.

If I said to you, if you think of a pink elephant God will condemn you to hell, what is the first thought that will come into your head if you believed me?

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