SDA

[BobRyan]

You are correct in that the SDA is not the only denomination to get the covenants confused. Taking God's name in vain is a sin under the new covenant because Jesus told us to love God

In Matthew 19 Jesus said "if you want eternal life - keep the commandments" --
Jesus is then asked "which ones".
Instead of avoiding the TEN in Matthew 22 - Jesus specifically quotes from the Ten -- the commands that deal with "Love your neighbor" as He instructed in Leviticus 19.

your idea that all those Christian denominations are confused - is your POV. You can have any view you want.

 

[BobRyan]

Greetings Natsumi Lam,
What I find unusual or difficult concerning the SDA teachings, is that they believe that when Jesus returns the earth will be burnt for the 1000 years and be without inhabitant. This seems to go against most of the OT prophecies that speak of Jesus sitting upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem

SDA teaching is that Jesus does come to Earth in Rev 21 as does the New Jerusalem and Jesus rules on Earth from there for all eternity.

 

[BobRyan]

I can assure you, the sda members I met all believed heaven hinges on obeying the ten commandments. More than one sda member on the internet plainly stated: We all know our justification is obeying the ten commandments. It may not doctrinally be spelt out like that, but that is the reality of what members believe

I have met one or two who actually are SDA in real life and the fact that they reject OSAS as a teaching that does not pass the sola-scriptura test ... does not mean they also reject Eph 2 "saved by grace through faith". They accept Romans 2 AND Ephesians 2.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Christianity Today wrote an article in Jan 22 of 2015 stating that the SDA church is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world and one of the fastest growing if not the fastest growing.

Your statement that "cult is determined by size of group" sounds like creative writing - did you make that up or is that "Websters"??

The Christian church itself started "small" is it your claim that the Christian church itself used to be a cult??

To some people, Jesus and Christianity prob was a cult.

 

[BobRyan]

At the request of a friend, I went to an sda church for a while with an open mind. The only thing I knew about them was they went to church on a Saturday, ...
In my view, endlessly stating ''The Ten Commandments'' is very old covenant. The law God desires you to follow is within you, it is written in your mind and placed on your heart under the core terms of the New Covenant.

Exegesis 'is a thing' as it turns out... a "good thing".

Jeremiah 31:31-33 states the New Covenant and it is found again in Hebrews 8:6-12 unchanged from its OT form. Exegesis is a good thing and part of it states that we take the meaning of the text as the Author intended it. No Bible scholar in any denomination today would argue that Jeremiah was not aware that the moral law of God included the Ten Commandments when he writes to his readers that God said "I will write My LAW on their heart".

This is not the part that would in any way be unique to SDAs - as the statement below demonstrates

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[bekkilyn]

In Matthew 19 Jesus said "if you want eternal life - keep the commandments" --
Jesus is then asked "which ones".
Instead of avoiding the TEN in Matthew 22 - Jesus specifically quotes from the Ten -- the commands that deal with "Love your neighbor" as He instructed in Leviticus 19.

your idea that all those Christian denominations are confused - is your POV. You can have any view you want.

What's interesting are the commandments Jesus leaves out of that passage.

Also, his message in that passage isn't really about following commandments, but being willing to put Jesus first in your life before all other things. Using this passage to try to "prove" that Jesus told us to follow the ten commandments, or any other part of old covenant law, is misusing it because that's not what he's saying at all.

 

[BobRyan]

To some people, Jesus and Christianity prob was a cult.

Question for you - how did you make your connection with Seventh-day Adventists? a friend or family member?

 

[stephen pollard]

I have met one or two who actually are SDA in real life and the fact that they reject OSAS as a teaching that does not pass the sola-scriptura test ... does not mean they also reject Eph 2 "saved by grace through faith". They accept Romans 2 AND Ephesians 2.

Have you not met any sda members who believe heaven hinges on obeying the Ten Commandments/your justificati0on hinges on that? I have

 

[stephen pollard]

I have met one or two who actually are SDA in real life and the fact that they reject OSAS as a teaching that does not pass the sola-scriptura test ... does not mean they also reject Eph 2 "saved by grace through faith". They accept Romans 2 AND Ephesians 2.

I know sda members believe they are initially saved by grace through faith. It is what comes after that

 

[BobRyan]

You are correct in that the SDA is not the only denomination to get the covenants confused. Taking God's name in vain is a sin under the new covenant because Jesus told us to love God

In Matthew 19 Jesus said "if you want eternal life - keep the commandments" --
Jesus is then asked "which ones".
Instead of avoiding the TEN in Matthew 22 - Jesus specifically quotes from the Ten -- the commands that deal with "Love your neighbor" as He instructed in Leviticus 19.

your idea that all those Christian denominations are confused - is your POV. You can have any view you want.

What's interesting are the commandments Jesus leaves out of that passage.

Agreed.

Note that He is not including any commandments related to "Love God with all your heart"

He does not list "do not take God's name in vain"
He does not list "Love God with all your heart"
He does not list "Do not worship false gods"
etc.

In that list He only includes things related to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

But he does quote outright - verbatim commandments from the TEN commandments

Such that Paul can say in Eph 6:2 that the 5th commandment in that still-binding unit of Ten is the "First commandment with a promise"

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Question for you - how did you make your connection with Seventh-day Adventists? a friend or family member?

Neither ....curious minds just want to know.

 

[stephen pollard]

Exegesis 'is a thing' as it turns out... a "good thing".

Jeremiah 31:31-33 states the New Covenant and it is found again in Hebrews 8:6-12 unchanged from its OT form. Exegesis is a good thing and part of it states that we take the meaning of the text as the Author intended it. No Bible scholar in any denomination today would argue that Jeremiah was not aware that the moral law of God included the Ten Commandments when he writes to his readers that God said "I will write My LAW on their heart".

This is not the part that would in any way be unique to SDAs - as the statement below demonstrates

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course as:
Sin is the transgression of the law
And
Through the law we become conscious of sin
A believer must have heartfelt conviction they sin if the transgress the law on their heart, as I am sure you would agree

 

[BobRyan]

Have you not met any sda members who believe heaven hinges on obeying the Ten Commandments/your justificati0on hinges on that? I have

I have met many who reject OSAS.
All the ones I met believe in Eph 2 - "Saved by grace through faith"
They all believe 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
They all believe Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
They all believe 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
They all believe that works will never get us into heaven ... only grace and the blood of Christ covering our sins - and the New Heart - new creation walking by faith - and in the Spirit.

They all know Matt 7 Jesus said "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father" and they believe Jesus

They all know Romans 2:13-16 "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

 

[BobRyan]

And of course as:
Sin is the transgression of the law
And
Through the law we become conscious of sin
A believer must have heartfelt conviction they sin if the transgress the law on their heart, as I am sure you would agree

The question is "what Law" did Jeremiah mean when he wrote Jeremiah 31:31-33. And exegesis dictates that we accept the fact that Jeremiah would have known that the Ten Commandments were included in the moral law of God so when God said "I will write my LAW on their heart and mind" as part of the definition of the New Covenant - it included that part of the moral law Jeremiah knew and so also his readers would have known it.

Which as I keep pointing out in that list of denominations - is not a Bible truth that only SDAs know about.

you say that each individual has his own convictions and I agree that is true - but we also have an actual Bible and can see what it is saying ... and as we (humans/mankind/humanity) read it we may find that some of our most cherished traditions and preferences are not lining up .

 

[stephen pollard]

Sorry---overheating had to get ice on the computer! This really stinks!! I was told it could go anytime. Sometimes it just shuts down when it overheats.

I was trying to say, God has His own time frame. He works on different areas with different people. He is patient. `One pastor had talked to a big name pastor--he interestingly had all the EGW books and my pastor asked him about it. He said he had read then all and believed them, pastor asked him why he didn't `switch over---he said he had been called to do what he was doing and had not ben called to anything else. He had been called to bring people to Christ, not to the Sabbath so he stayed where he was---I can't fault him for that if that is how he felt. That is between God and him. We are all to live up to what light has been given--if you don't feel you have been called to keep the Sabbath, it is not up to me to judge you for that--we just present what we feel the scriptures say.

I would like to who what someone said yesterday. Though we obviously disagree on issues, it is a pleasure to chat to an sda member who is not bringing forth programmed responses.
However, if a Saturday sabbath is as important as sda members believe it is, I am not how sda members would believe, in view of this the Holy Spirit would allow people to continually sin in ignorance of it, before, he eventually decided to convict them it was sin. I would agree, there are always derivitives as it were of love your neighbour we are being shown, and enlightened concerning. But we should discern,the Holy Spirit would not leave believers in the dark about murder, theft, adultery for example being se are speaking of the Ten Commandments here, and the importance sda put on the fourth one

 

[stephen pollard]

I have met many who reject OSAS.
All the ones I met believe in Eph 2 - "Saved by grace through faith"
They all believe 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the commandments of God"
They all believe Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
They all believe 1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
They all believe that works will never get us into heaven ... only grace and the blood of Christ covering our sins - and the New Heart - new creation walking by faith - and in the Spirit.

They all know Matt 7 Jesus said "not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father" and they believe Jesus

They all know Romans 2:13-16 "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED.. on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge"

I know many non sda members who do not believe in osas either, but they do not believe your justification is obeying the ten commandments

 

[BobRyan]

I know many non sda members who do not believe in osas either, but they do not believe your justification is obeying the ten commandments

I never say "your justification is obeying the Ten Commandments" but I do affirm the texts I gave earlier as "the Word of God" and -- Truth.

 

[stephen pollard]

The question is "what Law" did Jeremiah mean when he wrote Jeremiah 31:31-33. And exegesis dictates that we accept the fact that Jeremiah would have known that the Ten Commandments were included in the moral law of God so when God said "I will write my LAW on their heart and mind" as part of the definition of the New Covenant - it included that part of the moral law Jeremiah knew and so also his readers would have known it.

Which as I keep pointing out in that list of denominations - is not a Bible truth that only SDAs know about.

you say that each individual has his own convictions and I agree that is true - but we also have an actual Bible and can see what it is saying ... and as we (humans/mankind/humanity) read it we may find that some of our most cherished traditions and preferences are not lining up .

Yes, it is in my heart and mind not to steal, covet, murder, commit adultery. It was their before I read OT law, or understood OT law in places, absolutely. never had any conviction I sinned by not following a set Saturday sabbath though, so that law as written is not in my heart or mind. Am I unsaved?

 

[BobRyan]

However, if a Saturday sabbath is as important as sda members believe it is, I am not how sda members would believe, in view of this the Holy Spirit would allow people to continually sin in ignorance of it

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, it is in my heart and mind not to steal, covet, murder, commit adultery. It was their before I read OT law, or understood OT law in places, absolutely. never had any conviction I sinned by not following a set Saturday sabbath though, so that law as written is not in my heart or mind. Am I unsaved?

We also believe that praying to the dead and bowing down before images is wrong. But the fact that over a billion Christians engage in it - does not "make it right" it just means they have not been enlightened on that Bible truth. We don't claim they are "all unsaved" simply because they do not know about that.