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deu58

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Hello Cliff

Cliff2 said:
The trillions this guy was talking about was right over the top.

The 20 million is again your figures.

No that is not my figures, That is the govt figure, And only from a few hospitals,

It was a token case in an attempt for the govt to show that they really care about our tax dollars, Now multiply by all the SDA hospitals and the unreprted fraud that has been going on for many years and that trillions of dollars does not sound so far fetched after all does it??

yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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Cliff2

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Look at his record, who is going to take any notice of such claims?

He takes a school to court because his son does not make the team. You would have to have serious doubts about a person who would do that.

Restraining orders have been taken out against him in the past for his misbehaviour.

Why should anyone believe him now.

It seems he makes money from these type of class actions.


Man gets two years in prison for harassing phone calls

[font=helvetica, arial][size=-2]By ERIC HARTLEY and ELIZABETH LEIS Staff Writers[/size][/font]


William M. Lovern has aggravated a lot of people over the years, but yesterday he finally ran into someone who could do something about it. A county judge sentenced the 52-year-old Arnold man to two years in prison for making dozens of harassing telephone calls to finance companies.

Mr. Lovern, who runs a firm called Trial Management Associates that he says litigates "extreme class action" and investigates fraud, has been a thorn in the side of many public officials and businesses for years.

In 1998, when he was living in Richmond, Va., he sued the school system because his son didn't make a high school basketball team and Mr. Lovern was banned from school grounds for pestering the coach and principal.

A federal judge tossed out his lawsuit, saying Mr. Lovern was trying to "intimidate everybody to force them to do his bidding."

In 2002, a prosecutor said, he was convicted in federal court in Virginia of harassing an IRS agent. Also that year, an Anne Arundel County judge issued a restraining order barring him from calling an Illinois company that said he had falsely accused it of insurance fraud.

Late last year, he started calling Western Union's parent company, complaining that he'd been required to give his Social Security number when picking up money from a wire transfer, which he said was a violation of federal law.

He made dozens of calls and wrote letters, telling the company he was going to sue if it didn't stop collecting Social Security numbers. Finally a company official filed criminal telephone harassment charges.

But in court yesterday, even as he was facing prison time, Mr. Lovern insisted he's done nothing wrong and is rightfully investigating fraud cases as an attorney.

"I am working with the FBI on this case," Mr. Lovern said.

"I am the established attorney general in 50 states and D.C.," he added, explaining that a private citizen has the same rights as the attorney general to sue in fraud cases.

In fact, a state bar official said this morning, Mr. Lovern is not a licensed attorney in Maryland.

Circuit Court Judge Pamela L. North told Mr. Lovern she believed he has a mental disorder. She ordered him to get treatment and sentenced him to the maximum three years in prison, suspending a year of the term.

"Either you're an incredible liar or you really believe what you're saying," the judge said, adding that it seemed Mr. Lovern has a "superhero" complex.

Assistant State's Attorney Stacey B. Green called Mr. Lovern a "bully," saying he has continued to make harassing telephone calls since a jury convicted him June 16.

Mr. Lovern has called 20 people at a Rockville firm since the end of June and accused them of "Medicaid fraud," Ms. Green said. She said she's gotten 15 phone calls from other victims since Mr. Lovern's conviction.

Having a judge arrested

Ms. Green said Mr. Lovern has a pattern: He calls, says he has a complaint about a legal issue, then becomes belligerent and threatening when people don't give in to his demands immediately.

In 2003, he threatened to sue an Australian bank for $15 billion for supposedly illegal practices, according to charging documents.

Judge North said Mr. Lovern is "clearly a dangerous person" since the people he harassed believed he was going to go after them physically.

While his criminal case was pending, he called Circuit Court Administrative Judge Joseph P. Manck, telling his law clerk, "I just wanted to talk to him before I call the U.S. Marshals Office and have him arrested," Ms. Green said.

He also promised in court yesterday to file a disciplinary complaint against Ms. Green, who he accused of improperly prosecuting him.

Mr. Lovern said the telephone calls were made in the course of his business investigating fraud under the Federal False Claims Act. He said he's a private lawyer who runs two law firms and has been investigating Medicaid, Medicare and child support fraud for two years.

"I want to put on the record that 90 percent of what (Ms. Green) said is not just disingenuous, it's a flat-out lie," he said in his slight Southern twang.

'I'm already packed'

In 2002, according to a lawsuit against him, Mr. Lovern accused a finance company of misconduct and warned a vice president, "Get a good attorney."

That's advice Mr. Lovern didn't take himself. He represented himself at his trial and sentencing - something Judge North called a mistake.

"All of this stuff that you're doing is against the law and you have to come to grips with that," she told him. "I'm really sorry you didn't get a lawyer. I sort of begged you to get a lawyer."

Mr. Lovern told Judge North putting him prison would be a "back-door" attempt to silence him and would violate the Constitution. He said he's being targeted for exposing misconduct.

"There is not one person who has complained who is not in trouble," he said. "The conviction was for annoying someone on the phone. To incarcerate someone for that would be outrageous."

Mr. Lovern begged the judge to let him go home, saying he was ready to move on again - he's lived in Texas, Virginia and Maryland.

"I can go to another state. I'm already packed," he said.

That argument didn't sway Judge North, who told him, "You'd probably go to South Dakota or something and do the same thing."
 
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deu58

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Hello cliff

Cliff2 said:
Look at his record, who is going to take any notice of such claims?

"

You seem to think one persons guilt excuses anothers theft of public funds,

We do not know all the particulars in the case, But we do know that your church has already been tried and convicted of the very same fraud charges that this man is trying to sue it for,

Now lets see something here, Man makes threating phone calls against institutions that are stealing money from tax payers,vs SDA church steals 20 million dollars,= Evil man persecuting the true remnant church of God unjustly

It seems that at least in your mind this equals poor persecuted church thank God the Evil man who is seeking Justice against same church is locked up and is no longer a threat to society,

Now the good church can continue stealing money with out any pesky outsiders getting in the way,

yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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Cliff2

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deu58 said:
Hello cliff



You seem to think one persons guilt excuses anothers theft of public funds,

We do not know all the particulars in the case, But we do know that your church has already been tried and convicted of the very same fraud charges that this man is trying to sue it for,

Now lets see something here, Man makes threating phone calls against institutions that are stealing money from tax payers,vs SDA church steals 20 million dollars,= Evil man persecuting the true remnant church of God unjustly

It seems that at least in your mind this equals poor persecuted church thank God the Evil man who is seeking Justice against same church is locked up and is no longer a threat to society,

Now the good church can continue stealing money with out any pesky outsiders getting in the way,

yours in Christ
deu 58

You are getting your morning exercise again, jumping to conclusions, the wrong conclusions.

You can't tell me that every hospital system in the USA is doing it wrong and has been doing it all wrong for the last 30 years.

It is not just the SDA Hospitals, it is the RCC, Methodist and George Bush's brother in Floida. Yet all you do is hone in on the SDA's.

This is where your problem lies, take the glasses off.

Do you relly think the Government over there would allow fraud to go on for over 30 years and do nothing about it?

He is in goal now and they all might get a bit of peace.
 
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Airdude

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Now lets see something here, Man makes threating phone calls against institutions that are stealing money from tax payers,vs SDA church steals 20 million dollars,= Evil man persecuting the true remnant church of God unjustly

You have already been shown in another thread that these claims are fraudulent. By continuing with this you are taking part in that fraud. Give it up.
If there were any part of this story that was credible it would have made a big splash in the mainstream media. As of yet it has not.:sleep:
 
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Cliff2

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deu58 said:
Hello cliff



You seem to think one persons guilt excuses anothers theft of public funds,

We do not know all the particulars in the case, But we do know that your church has already been tried and convicted of the very same fraud charges that this man is trying to sue it for,

Now lets see something here, Man makes threating phone calls against institutions that are stealing money from tax payers,vs SDA church steals 20 million dollars,= Evil man persecuting the true remnant church of God unjustly

It seems that at least in your mind this equals poor persecuted church thank God the Evil man who is seeking Justice against same church is locked up and is no longer a threat to society,

Now the good church can continue stealing money with out any pesky outsiders getting in the way,

yours in Christ
deu 58

The Church is not stealing money. The guy is making false cliams.
 
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statrei

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Cliff2 said:
The Church is not stealing money. The guy is making false cliams.
Don't interrupt deu58 when he is making a point. It will only encourage him to start all over again. Whatever it is that he things the Adventist church has done to him is very serious in his eyes. He is on a campaign. Let him ride.
 
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Cliff2

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statrei said:
Don't interrupt deu58 when he is making a point. It will only encourage him to start all over again. Whatever it is that he things the Adventist church has done to him is very serious in his eyes. He is on a campaign. Let him ride.

I can assure you that no one can interrupt deu58. If he wants to try and make a point , he will, regardless of what I write.
 
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Cliff2

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statrei said:
Happy Sabbath, Cliff.

Thanks mate.

Click here to go to the SDA Forum here at CF.

All SDA"s are welcome to come over and fellowship with like minded people.

Questions from non-SDA's are welcome and will be answered as best as we can and hopefully to your satisfaction.
 
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deu58

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Hello Stateri
statrei said:
You still have not told me whether He was raised before or after midnight on Saturday night. Why do you avoid this essential fact?

Well, I believe that God knows all things, So I have no problem accepting that God knows how to count to three,;)
 
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statrei

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deu58 said:
Hello Stateri


Well, I believe that God knows all things, So I have no problem accepting that God knows how to count to three,;)
That's not the issue. You make the claim that you are celebrating the Resurrection. How can you when you don't know when He was raised?
 
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deu58

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Hello Stateri
statrei said:
That's not the issue. You make the claim that you are celebrating the Resurrection. How can you when you don't know when He was raised?

Well, You are supposed to be the "Theologian" Here so you tell me something. According to bible and Gods way of keeping time, Not mans, When does the Seventh day start and when does it end??;)

yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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