SDA & Messianic study of the Feasts

[RND]

Yep. I think that about sums it up.

You know Vis, our church enjoys the company of a Messianic Jew practically every sabbath. I really enjoy talking with him because I have learned an awful lot about the Jewish culture and many of the intricacies of the ceremonies and there significance. It's been a real blessing to have him in our church.

 

[visionary]

You know Vis, our church enjoys the company of a Messianic Jew practically every sabbath. I really enjoy talking with him because I have learned an awful lot about the Jewish culture and many of the intricacies of the ceremonies and there significance. It's been a real blessing to have him in our church.

Yes, the cross over into our synagogue from yours is common.. Yeah.. even your prophet said similar things..

"All the ceremonies of the Jewish law were prophetic, typical of mysteries in the plan of redemption." Volume 6, Bible Commentary, p. 1095. E.G. White

Speaking of the feast days which occurred in the spring relating to the first advent, Passover, Unleavened Bread, Wave Sheaf, and Pentecost, Ellen White writes,

"These types were fulfilled, not only as to the event, but as to the time....." Then continuing she writes, "In like manner the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service." Great Controversy, p. 399, 400. E.G. White

 

[RND]

Yes, the cross over into our synagogue from yours is common.. Yeah.. even your prophet said similar things..

"All the ceremonies of the Jewish law were prophetic, typical of mysteries in the plan of redemption." Volume 6, Bible Commentary, p. 1095. E.G. White

Speaking of the feast days which occurred in the spring relating to the first advent, Passover, Unleavened Bread, Wave Sheaf, and Pentecost, Ellen White writes,

"These types were fulfilled, not only as to the event, but as to the time....." Then continuing she writes, "In like manner the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service." Great Controversy, p. 399, 400. E.G. White

You know Vis the amazing thing is how these ceremonies still "translate" into our current time setting and how they translate into the overall time setting of the plan of salvation. The day Jesus returns will coincide (in my view) exactly with the Day of Atonement and the 1000 year millennium will match perfectly with the 10 days of the Feast of Tabernacles.

Yesterday our service involved a discussion as to why, as Adventist's, we should pay much closer attention, even observe, of these ceremonies.

 

[visionary]

You know Vis the amazing thing is how these ceremonies still "translate" into our current time setting and how they translate into the overall time setting of the plan of salvation. The day Jesus returns will coincide (in my view) exactly with the Day of Atonement and the 1000 year millennium will match perfectly with the 10 days of the Feast of Tabernacles.

Yesterday our service involved a discussion as to why, as Adventist's, we should pay much closer attention, even observe, of these ceremonies.

hey...We need to create another thread in which we can discuss this in more depth.

 

[RND]

hey...We need to create another thread in which we can discuss this in more depth.

Let me know where you start it at! Messianic forum, SDA forum or open forum?

Actually, I think it would be great if Messianic's and SDA's got together more and learned from each other. I mean we really do have more in common that any two other faith groups. BTW Vis you blew me away with your EGW quotes. I mean I had no idea you had knowledge of her. And boy, you picked some great quotes too!

 

[RND]

One of the best lessons I ever learned from my Messianic friend "David" at my local church was how a gentile, once he partook in the Passover lamb, became just like a "homeborn" member of the Nation of Israel.

I the same sense, we as gentiles become members of the Nation of Israel (Jesus Christ) when we partake in accepting the Passover lamb. One of the most interesting and intriguing sections of the Bible to me is Exodus 12 which describes in detail the very plan of salvation and adoption into the seed of Abraham that Jesus represents.

Salvation is only for members of the Nation of Israel whether it be by birth or adoption.

 

[visionary]

You know Vis the amazing thing is how these ceremonies still "translate" into our current time setting and how they translate into the overall time setting of the plan of salvation. The day Jesus returns will coincide (in my view) exactly with the Day of Atonement and the 1000 year millennium will match perfectly with the 10 days of the Feast of Tabernacles.

Yesterday our service involved a discussion as to why, as Adventist's, we should pay much closer attention, even observe, of these ceremonies.

I would like to know where you came to understand that YEshua would come on the day of atonement. THat is one of the reasons for starting this thread... so that we could discuss this whole thing in more detail.

 

[RND]

I would like to know where you came to understand that YEshua would come on the day of atonement. THat is one of the reasons for starting this thread... so that we could discuss this whole thing in more detail.

On the Day of Atonement a trumpet was to be blown to announce and herald that the Day had arrived.

Lev 25:9 Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land.

When Jesus returns it will be announced and heralded with a trumpet as well.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

It's my belief that when Jesus returns a trumpet will blow throughout all the land to announce and herald His second coming! I think that will be on or about Yom Kippur. This exert is taken from the book: GOD’S FESTIVALS IN SCRIPTURE AND HISTORY VOLUME II: THE FALL FESTIVALS by Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi, Ph. D., of Andrews University:

"The three Fall Feasts of Trumpets, Atonement, and Tabernacles typify the three steps leading to the consummation of Christ’s redemptive ministry: repentance, cleansing, and rejoicing for the final restoration. The Feast of Trumpets, as we have seen in chapters 2 and 3, represents God’s last call to repentance while the destiny of God’s people is being reviewed by the heavenly court during the antitypical ten days preceding the Day of Atonement. We refer to this period as the "Pre-Advent Judgment."

The Day of Atonement typifies Christ’s final act of cleansing that will be accomplished at His coming when He will cleanse His people of their sins and will place all accountability on Satan (Azazel). The cleansing accomplished by Christ at His Return makes it possible to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles which foreshadows the rejoicing of the saints at the inauguration of a new life in the new earth."

 

[Henaynei]

Yom Teruah - Day of the Blowing - aka Rosh HaShanah = "Awake Sleeper" for your Judgment draws nigh

Yom Kippur - Day of Final decree of Judgement - weighed in the balance and final fate determined

Yom Sukkot - Day(s) of Abiding in Booths - the final ingathering into the Bridal Chamber

 

[visionary]

I am going to use your prophet's quotes for the basis of why I think the way I do...thought it would be a good starting point.

In this age, just prior to the second coming of Christ in the clouds of heaven, such a work as that of John [the Baptist] is to be done. God calls for men who will prepare a people to stand in the great day of the Lord. . . . In order to give such a message as John gave, we must have a spiritual experience like his. The same work must be wrought in us. We must behold God, and in beholding Him lose sight of self.--Testimonies for the Church, vol. 8, pp. 332, 333 (1904).

Just as it was with the first coming.. you have the spirit of Elijah herald the coming. Only this time you will have two witnesses giving the message [Rev 11] and the message will be [Rev 10] what was in the scroll. .. the messages must be given again... and we all know that it begins at Jerusalem..

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

Another interesting aspect about the two witnesses is that it takes two witnesses to announce the start of the Feast of Trumpets...

 

[visionary]

I have come to believe that prophecies can be fulfilled more than once. I can understand where you get the impression that the second coming is tied to the judgement but I put to you that the court case in heaven must be over before the judgement occurs...

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. 2 Tim. 4:1.

I think we agree that the bowls of wrath are the judgments without mercy after the day of atonement is over... and based upon that.. that means that the Lord has not yet come for His people.

The judgment scene will take place in the presence of all the worlds; for in this judgment the government of God will be vindicated, and His law will stand forth as "holy, and just, and good." Then every case will be decided, and sentence will be passed upon all. Sin will not then appear attractive, but will be seen in all its hideous magnitude. I see this occuring...

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail

THink about what all is suppose to happen during Yom Kippur. Sins are removed from the sanctuary.. it is the only time that the High Priest enters into the Most Holy... there are two goats [identical before the congregation] and one is chosen to be sacrificed for God and the other is the scapegoat... and we all ready know that these are "shadows of things to come" [col 2:17] so what prophecy/event could it be describing.... I believe it is the time when we will have the great imitation of Jesus Christ appearing and convincing the world that he is god and should be worshipped...

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

And based on that... that means that the day of atonement must be ruled out as the time of the Lord's coming...

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[RND]

I have come to believe that prophecies can be fulfilled more than once. I can understand where you get the impression that the second coming is tied to the judgement but I put to you that the court case in heaven must be over before the judgement occurs...

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. 2 Tim. 4:1.

I think we agree that the bowls of wrath are the judgments without mercy after the day of atonement is over... and based upon that.. that means that the Lord has not yet come for His people.

Yeah, I kinda see your point but since there are seven vials, bowls and trumpets I kinda think these are tied into the Feast of Trumpets myself. BTW, you seem to have brought up the Investigative Judgment when talking about the trial in Heaven. You know, I believe in the IJ but I actually believe God is on trial at the moment and that once He's acquitted then the second phrase of the trial can begin. Don't quite know if we're there yet.

The judgment scene will take place in the presence of all the worlds; for in this judgment the government of God will be vindicated, and His law will stand forth as "holy, and just, and good." Then every case will be decided, and sentence will be passed upon all. Sin will not then appear attractive, but will be seen in all its hideous magnitude. I see this occuring...

Wow, that's indeed the IJ to a "T."

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail

THink about what all is suppose to happen during Yom Kippur. Sins are removed from the sanctuary.. it is the only time that the High Priest enters into the Most Holy... there are two goats [identical before the congregation] and one is chosen to be sacrificed for God and the other is the scapegoat... and we all ready know that these are "shadows of things to come" [col 2:17] so what prophecy/event could it be describing.... I believe it is the time when we will have the great imitation of Jesus Christ appearing and convincing the world that he is god and should be worshipped...

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

And based on that... that means that the day of atonement must be ruled out as the time of the Lord's coming...

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Personally, I think the man sin revealed sits in the "spiritual" temple that the body of believers are part of.

Eph 2:20-21 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The church/state relationship, in my mind, seems to be what is spoken of in Daniel and Revelation. That seems to be the "antichrist" system and false prophet rolled together perfectly.

Surprising though is how much your beliefs seem so in line with a number of Adventist teaching and doctrine. So tell me Vis, how many EGW books do you have!?

 

[visionary]

Yeah, I kinda see your point but since there are seven vials, bowls and trumpets I kinda think these are tied into the Feast of Trumpets myself. BTW, you seem to have brought up the Investigative Judgment when talking about the trial in Heaven. You know, I believe in the IJ but I actually believe God is on trial at the moment and that once He's acquitted then the second phrase of the trial can begin. Don't quite know if we're there yet.



Wow, that's indeed the IJ to a "T."



Personally, I think the man sin revealed sits in the "spiritual" temple that the body of believers are part of.

Eph 2:20-21 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

The church/state relationship, in my mind, seems to be what is spoken of in Daniel and Revelation. That seems to be the "antichrist" system and false prophet rolled together perfectly.

Surprising though is how much your beliefs seem so in line with a number of Adventist teaching and doctrine. So tell me Vis, how many EGW books do you have!?

Ok... let's blend our two understandings and go through the fall feasts and see if we can gets some order here.. after all scripture does give us all the clues the Lord said we need... precept upon precept.. line upon line.

FIrst

The feasts of trumpets.

Lev 23:23 The LORD said to Moses, 24 "Say to the Israelites: 'On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts. 25 Do no regular work, but present an offering made to the LORD by fire.

Feast of Trumpets is the First day of the seventh month and start of the civil year.(Leviticus 23.23-25) Hebrew name is Rosh HaShanah which literally means head of the year on the Jewish Calendar it falls around September or October depending on the year. It is Tishri 1 of the Jewish month and first day of the year on the Jewish civil calendar.

The Jews have two calendars, one which they call the sacred calendar and the other that they call the civil. They believe that since God never abrogated the old calendar when He gave them the new calendar they are to have two calendars.

This is why Joel says that Christ will come in the first month, both for the first coming and for the second, both in the spring and in the fall. But.. as a 3 1/2 year ministry before the Lord fulfilled the spring time feasts happened. so also I believe that this is the "like manner" that EGW was speaking of.. in that the fall feasts will also have a 3 1/2 year ministry before the Lord fulfills the fall feasts. Remember also that Pentecost was not Yeshua in person but the Holy Spirit fulfillment... so also I believe we will have the Holy Spirit fulfill the Feast of Trumpets with the "latter rain".

 

[visionary]

Interesting that you find seven trumpets in Revelation and not many people have made any connection with the Feast of Trumpets. It would take understanding of the Feast of Trumpets throughout scripture and prophecy of old and new testament prophets to glean concepts and understand the significance of the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets are about remembrances, a memorial, but the Bible does not tell us what we are supposed to remember!

When you take a look at just the seals and the trumpets, you find mercy mixed with samples of judgment. 1/3 is a portion.

Neither the name of the festival or the meaning of the festival are made explicitly clear in the Bible. The symbolism of this festival is something of a mystery, a sort of Bible riddle begging to be solved. The Bible grants us only two sparse verses to explain the festival:

Leviticus 23:23,24 In the seventh month, on first day of the month, it will be for you a sabbath, a trumpet blast memorial, a sacred assembly. 24 All regular work you shall not do, and you shall cause to be brought near to the LORD an offering made by fire.

 

[visionary]

This memorial is yet to have an event to memorialize it. We have yet to fulfill this event. By faith we are to keep it. By faith, we are to understand it.

So let us begin with the offering made by fire. To be tried in the fires, the cleansing spoken of, is to have a purification effect which will be total and complete just as it is in Yeshua. We are the offering, the sacrificing of our sins in the flesh, that we may live the spiritual life with Yeshua. The sacred assembly will be those who are looking forward to the fulfillment of the Feasts of Trumpets.

Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Yeshua, the Jewish Mesiah:

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

[visionary]

The place of His sanctuary, which is our minds, will be cast down, polluted and need serious cleansing. Good thing that Yeshua cleansed the temple at the start of His ministry and then again at the end of His earthly ministry for us. During the Feast of Trumpets come all the last warnings that this world will receive before the plagues fall.

Before a harvest, you need rain, and in the same way, just before the earthly harvest of mankind, the Lord must give us the latter rain, to bring us to the point where He can truly harvest the crop of people ready to live all eternity with Him.

Ez 12:27 Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off. 28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.

Now you are wondering where does that verse fit in... think about the ministry of the two witnesses who start their ministry in Jerusalem... the reason they are called witnesses rather than prophets is because they say and it happens.. no waiting...as with the words of a prophet who foretells what is to come and in some prophecies we are still waiting.

 

[visionary]

To start the Feast of Trumpets you must have two witnesses spot the new moon.

Now the two trumpets of silver can be paralleled to the two witnesses who are calling people to the last call of redemption. The two witnesses will call for the ingathering of the believers and for the journeying that will need to be done spiritually to be in the place in the wilderness, where God can again speak to us as it was at Mount Sinai.

Numbers 10:1-2 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.

Remember brass represents judgment, gold is divine nature, and silver is redemption. There is no silver in the new heaven and earth reign of Christ, indicating that redemption has ceased for there is not more need for it in a new world of saints in whom is no guile, and who are perfect in Christ.

Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Yeshua, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

Now that will be the time when the book is opened and it tastes sweet, but when the full impact of what this means, to the wicked and those in rebellion to the Word of God will cause the stomach to churn.

Revelation 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

When the two witnesses come, they will come in the power from on High. They will be able to command plagues like Moses and conviction will be with their words, for Yeshua will be with them like a voice out of the cloud. The clouded mind that each and every one of us has is confusion on one point or another, lost and not knowing where to turn, will be cleared by the messages of the two witnesses of Revelation. It will ring true and will be like the voice of God to our hearts and minds. It will bring us convictions, repentance, and salvation in the mysteries of God that have for so long been covered by traditions and our own sinful lives. They will cause the mystery of God to be finished. The hidden things of God will no longer be hidden, the truth will shine in all its glory.

 

[visionary]

The two witnesses message and the son of perdition I believe come at the same time. That appears to confuse the masses brings about tribulation such as never before witnessed upon the earth. Tribulation of the mind and turmoil with the conflicts of information given. As tribulation is in everyone’s mind, so also will the outwards signs of turmoil be among the people, as the rulers look to control the masses, and leaders look to lead the crowd. Everyone will be taking a position, everyone holding and protesting even if it takes forcing their beliefs or position upon others until there is nothing left to be said because everyone is willing to die for the position they will then hold. All the world will then be judged accordingly, and the plaques will fall afflicting each and everyone justly in righteous judgement.

Rev. 13:5 And there was given unto him [the sea beast] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

In that three and one half time period, during this turmoil, those who are witnessing for Christ will find it getting extremely difficult to the point that they will wear out. They will be exausted from warning and wooing on the hardness of the hearts of men to change while there is still an opportunity.

Daniel 7:25 And he [the horn that came up] shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

During the Feast of Trumpets, you will have watchmen who will give out the trumpet warning, the heralding of the news, the announcements of what is soon to come to pass. These watchmen on the wall of Zion are the two witnesses of Revelation.

Numbers 11:24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle. 25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease. 26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.

So it will be when the two witnesses, in Revelation, prophesy to the world, they will open the eyes of the world as to what is going on in God’s world. They will also show what is going on and going to happen in our world as we near the end of earth’s history

 

[visionary]

This ram's horn that was blown on the tenth day of the seventh month was also blown during a jubilee year. Jubilee points to the future perfect freedom. This Jubilee coming up will be the Jubilee of Jubilees or better known as the Millennium.

1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Yeshua, the Jewish Messiah, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The Bible commands us to blow the trumpets on the Feast of Trumpets as a memorial, ten days to remember but what? It does not tell us why the trumpets need to be blown. Nothing, no explanation, no meanings divulged or even hinted at. Various attempts have been made to explain the festival. By searching through the Scriptures for references to trumpets blasts we find they were used for a variety of purposes. Each purpose gives us a different reason to remember and highlights a unique aspect of the festival. Each remembrance is a key facet to this feast.

Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

God wants the people who seek after him daily and are delighted to know the way that God wants them to live and the way that things should be. These people who are willing to approach Him for all the truth will not forsake anything that is of God. They have found delight, truth, righteousness, justification, and sanctification in all of God’s ordained ministries and services.

Isaiah 58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

 

[visionary]

There is also the aspect of the coming of the Day of Atonement and the need for repentance. Feast of Trumpets marks the beginning of a ten day countdown to the Day of Atonement. Because the Day of Atonement is judgment day, the trumpet is sounded as a reminder that judgment is very near and the time for repentance is short.

Ezekiel 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Joel 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.