Scripture as my measure

[BrendanMark]

The idea that the Scriptures were written by the Holy Spirit through appointed men is a tradition of men - specifically, the Church around the time of Nicea.

Scripture is from the Church as the Body of Christ.

 

[Standing Up]

The idea that the Scriptures were written by the Holy Spirit through appointed men is a tradition of men - specifically, the Church around the time of Nicea.

Scripture is from the Church as the Body of Christ.

To what do you refer? No canon of Nicea talks about scripture.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Couple of problems.

1) The definition of "from the Father" changed a few hundred years later to "Father and the Son". And then exploded in 1054.

2) The definition of Trinity has been changed also (can't develop that yet in clear terms).

3) Nicea excommunicated and declared heretical the rule of faith as regards the days/dates of the death, burial, resurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ that the church once observed. The church being at earlier times Jesus, Peter, Paul, Mary, and the others.

So, no, Nicea doesn't "work" for at least 1/2 the church (RC) or the saints who came before Nicea.

PS. The idea of infallible ECs is as accurate a concept as infallible Pope

PPS. As to GT using Nicea, I'd guess it's pretty loose since RCers are still allowed to post, but maybe it was changed. Not sure.

Well let me rephrase that. I was referring to the creed established at this council, which was refined at the 2nd council. Of course, the RC's added the filioque later, but that is of minor difference compared to differing canon's of scripture. So as I said, all organized christian bodies agreed on these councils as they were, so why not start from there and move outwards? Also, by determing the people who were at the council we can see how they interpreted the words therein to gain the proper context.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Also by using the creed as a rule, since it clearly defines the Trinity doctrine, we can easily rule out those who do not accept the Trinity doctrine, as the scriptures do not explicitly define it as such (and non-trinitarians can use scripture to support their views, while they cannot use the creed to do the same).

 

[laconicstudent]

Seeing as the Scriptures were written by the Holy Spirit through appointed men, I believe that it should be the measuring stick. It's the only thing I know to be true. It is from God. So, if someone claiming that they are giving a revelation from God, then I am going to measure it by the one thing I know that is from God and is true.

Besides, if what man are claiming to be from God, then they should have no problem of someone measuring their statements from what we know of to be from God.

You are right, lets measure all Christian doctrine against the Gospel of Judas.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

You are right, lets measure all Christian doctrine against the Gospel of Judas.

a very interesting book, to say the least

 

[sunlover1]

I think it is also worth mentioning that the 1st council creed is used as a 'rule' here in the GT forums, I wonder why they didn't just say 'those who use Christian scriptures" intead...

Me too... I really do though lol.

Seeing as the Scriptures were written by the Holy Spirit through appointed men, I believe that it should be the measuring stick. It's the only thing I know to be true. It is from God. So, if someone claiming that they are giving a revelation from God, then I am going to measure it by the one thing I know that is from God and is true.

Besides, if what man are claiming to be from God, then they should have no problem of someone measuring their statements from what we know of to be from God.

thanks for posting daydreamer!

The idea that the Scriptures were written by the Holy Spirit through appointed men is a tradition of men - specifically, the Church around the time of Nicea.

Scripture is from the Church as the Body of Christ.

So you do or don't feel that checking Scripture to make
sure that your beliefs line up ,.. is a good plan?

 

[laconicstudent]

a very interesting book, to say the least

Since we are only supposed to use Scripture, and no tradition, I wouldn't know which books to use. I better just use them all. I hear God also talked to this guy named Muhammad.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Since we are only supposed to use Scripture, and no tradition, I wouldn't know which books to use. I better just use them all. I hear God also talked to this guy named Muhammad.

Well, I've always been a fan of the book of mormon myself. Makes for great bedtime stories!

 

[laconicstudent]

Well, I've always been a fan of the book of mormon myself. Makes for great bedtime stories!

True, and it makes an excellent rule for doctrine!

And don't forget Doctrines and Covenants!!!

8But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom to burn within you shall ; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

The true measure of Truth, according to Sola Scriptura, is bosom burning!

 

[sunlover1]

Since we are only supposed to use Scripture, and no tradition, I wouldn't know which books to use. I better just use them all. I hear God also talked to this guy named Muhammad.

Who says you are "only supposed to use Scripture"?

I said that was how I roll.
You do what you want.

And if you can't tell the difference between Jehovah and "allah"
then reading material is the least of your worries.

Seriously.

 

[laconicstudent]

Who says you are "only supposed to use Scripture"?

I said that was how I roll.
You do what you want.

And if you can't tell the difference between Jehovah and "allah"
then reading material is the least of your worries.

Seriously.

Allah is just an Arabic word for "God", Sunlover. What are you talking about? Christians have been praying to "Allah" in the Divine Liturgy for thousands of years.

 

[Standing Up]

Allah is just an Arabic word for "God", Sunlover. What are you talking about? Christians have been praying to "Allah" in the Divine Liturgy for thousands of years.

Really? EO and RC pray to Allah?

 

[Standing Up]

Well let me rephrase that. I was referring to the creed established at this council, which was refined at the 2nd council. Of course, the RC's added the filioque later, but that is of minor difference compared to differing canon's of scripture. So as I said, all organized christian bodies agreed on these councils as they were, so why not start from there and move outwards? Also, by determing the people who were at the council we can see how they interpreted the words therein to gain the proper context.

Minor difference? So, you don't have a problem with groups changing doctrine, but have a problem with the unchanging words of scripture?

Besides, RC doesn't view ECs like EOs do. RC has the Pope, EO has the EC. P has scripture.

 

[laconicstudent]

Really? EO and RC pray to Allah?

YouTube - The Trisagion (Thrice-Holy) Hymn - Palm Sunday 2010

Yes, they belt out "Allah" at about 0:35-0:37. So, yeah, Arabic speaking Christians pray to God. What of it?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

So why not use the 1st council of Nicea as a starting point for your rule? .

Why do you think that the Council of Nicea is MORE inspired directly by God, MORE inerrant, MORE reliable, MORE ecumenically embraced by all parties (virtually all 50,000 denominations) and MORE historically (say to 1400 BC) than is Scripture?




.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Allah is just an Arabic word for "God", Sunlover. What are you talking about? Christians have been praying to "Allah" in the Divine Liturgy for thousands of years.

Not to mention that Jehovah is nowhere to be found in either Greek nor Hebrew manuscripts. YHWH yes, Jehovah no.

Can we stick to the bible, Sunlover?

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Why do you think that the Council of Nicea is MORE inspired directly by God, MORE inerrant, MORE reliable, MORE ecumenically embraced by all parties (virtually all 50,000 denominations) and MORE historically (say to 1400 BC) than is Scripture?




.

Are you aware that Arius and his group used SCRIPTURE ONLY to make their argument?
Do you know who Arius was, and why there is a Symbol of Faith aka Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed?

Do you believe that all "truth" is created equal? IOW, Arianism is JUST as valid, if not moreso, than Trinitarianism, if you invoke scripture and only scripture for "norming."

I suspect I will not get a straight answer on this game-ending question.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

YouTube - The Trisagion (Thrice-Holy) Hymn - Palm Sunday 2010

Yes, they belt out "Allah" at about 0:35-0:37. So, yeah, Arabic speaking Christians pray to God. What of it?

If it wasn't for the "priestly class," we wouldn't be led astray in this manner.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Minor difference? So, you don't have a problem with groups changing doctrine, but have a problem with the unchanging words of scripture?

Besides, RC doesn't view ECs like EOs do. RC has the Pope, EO has the EC. P has scripture.

Wrong. The majority of Protestants embrace much if not all of the canon of the first 4 councils