Scripturally speaking

[mlqurgw]

If what you stated is true then God doesn't "require" and command us to repent as stated in His word.

Acts 17:31 - God overlooking the times of ignorance, now strictly commands all men everywhere to repent,

Does God accept you because you repent? No He doesn't. He accepts you for Christ's sake. Repentance isn't a cause of salvation but a fruit of it. Faith isn't the cause of our salvation either, Christ is. God saves for Christ's sake. Faith is the conduit through which we receive the grace of God in Christ. Just as a glass receives the water passively we receive the gift of grace in Christ passively. Only then can we actively take Christ for ourselves. We actively take Christ because He has already taken the throne of our heart. He is in there before we even know it.
Yes God commands all men to repent and believe. It is insanity not to and is also to call God a liar because it is to not believe the record God gave of His Son. 1John 5:10

 

[KEK]

Repentance isn't a cause of salvation. Faith isn't the cause of our salvation either

Is it possible to for a person to be saved without repenting and believing?

Just as a glass receives the water passively we receive the gift of grace in Christ passively. Only then can we actively take Christ for ourselves. We actively take Christ because He has already taken the throne of our heart. He is in there before we even know it.

If we actively do something, then it's a contradiction to state that our activity is passive. Passivity would exclude any activity on our part.

 

[UMP]

If we actively do something, then it's a contradiction to state that our activity is passive. Passivity would exclude any activity on our part.

So What.

Romans 11:
[33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

I really don't understand what you're trying to prove. You can nitpick all day long about passivity and the like till you dig a hole to China and back. As for me and my house, we like to keep it simple. We like to shout as Jonah did after God spewed him out of the fishes belly, "SALVATION IS OF THE LORD" !!.....From start to finish.

However, I'm certain this will not be sufficient for you, so keep going. While you're grinding away, I'll be thanking God for his DAILY grace and mercy till HE is finished with me:

Phil 1:6
[6] Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


I'm just a branch. As to whether I'm technically active or passive as I beg God to give me fruit to bear, I don't care, for one day I pray I'll be throwing ALL my crowns at the feet of Jesus.

Sorry for the interruption, you may continue digging to China.

 

[mlqurgw]

Is it possible to for a person to be saved without repenting and believing?



If we actively do something, then it's a contradiction to state that our activity is passive. Passivity would exclude any activity on our part.

Apparently you missed my point. The part you bolded is missing the forest for looking at the trees. Yes we are active but not synergistically. We are active under the power of God. Our activity is a result of His work.
This is becoming a pointless debate. It has turned into the kind of arguing over how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

 

[KEK]

I'm just a branch. As to whether I'm technically active or passive as I beg God to give me fruit to bear, I don't care,

The fact that you have to beg rules out the possibility of passivity. If it were passive, begging wouldn't be necessary.

 

[KEK]

Yes we are active but not synergistically. We are active under the power of God. Our activity is a result of His work.

Your words "we are active" and "our work" omit the possibility of both monergism as well as passivity. It appears that your understanding of the definitions of monergism and passivity may be incorrect.

"belief is not a matter of passive opinion, but decisive and obedient action." - J. Carl Laney ThD- Professor of Biblical Literature at Western Conservative Baptist Seminary commenting on John 3:36

Lastly I didn't receive an answer to the previous comment you made as yet.

Repentance isn't a cause of salvation. Faith isn't the cause of our salvation either

The question was:
Is it possible to for a person to be saved without repenting and believing?

 

[UMP]

The fact that you have to beg rules out the possibility of passivity. If it were passive, begging wouldn't be necessary.

I'm sorry you missed my point.

You might want to invest in a bigger shovel.

Bye.

 

[bradfordl]

The question was:
Is it possible to for a person to be saved without repenting and believing?

No. Because:

Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[mlqurgw]

Your words "we are active" and "our work" omit the possibility of both monergism as well as passivity. It appears that your understanding of the definitions of monergism and passivity may be incorrect.

I know what monergism is. I also know that you seem to be very intent on giving man some part in his salvation. Anything you add to the already finished work of Christ is to defile it with sin. It doesn't matter how small that thing may be. Again you strain at words to no avail. I struggle with how to make it plain to you that we are active as a result of already being saved not in order to be saved. Rather than responding to my points you are grasping at words. I get the impression that instead of considering what I am saying you are simply looking at how you can debate them. Frankly I am not interested in a debate. I will help you to understand better if I can.

"belief is not a matter of passive opinion, but decisive and obedient action."

- J. Carl Laney ThD- Professor of Biblical Literature at Western Conservative Baptist Seminary commenting on John 3:36

And that is supposed to mean what to me? I think that, though I don't have the reference, the context would probably indicate that he is speaking about the difference between head faith and heart faith. I do not think he intends that statement as a definition of faith. Correct me if I am wrong.

Lastly I didn't receive an answer to the previous comment you made as yet.



The question was:
Is it possible to for a person to be saved without repenting and believing?

No. I will leave it at that and once again ask you are you saved because you repent or believe?

 

[KEK]

No. Because:

I don't find anything in Phillipians 1:6 which is at odds with anything I have stated thus far.

God's work in us began in a monergistic fashion, and continues onward in synergistic fashion. There are a lot of events which take place in the process of salvation which begins at the time of regeneration, and consumates upon glorification, which Phil 1:6 doesn't specifically deal with in this single passage which wasn't posted in it's context. Therefore we have to take into account everything else Phillipians says, and next what else Paul says, and finally what Scripture says to get the complete picture. We can't take a single verse out of context, and then assume it trumps everything else written in Scripture.

Will perfect it (epitelesei). Future active indicative of epiteleō, will fully (epi) finish. God began and God will consummate it (see note on 2Co_8:6 and note on Gal_3:3 where both words occur together as here), but not without their cooperation and partnership. - Robertson

 

[KEK]

....................................

 

[KEK]

No. I will leave it at that and once again ask you are you saved because you repent or believe?

Once again there is nothing in Scripture to support the concept of an unrepentant and unbelieving saved person. I have been giving you Scripture to support my statements. You will need to show me a Biblical example, where it specifically says someone was saved without repenting and believing.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, unless ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.

 

[mlqurgw]

Once again there is nothing in Scripture to support the concept of an unrepentant and unbelieving saved person. I have been giving you Scripture to support my statements. You will need to show me a Biblical example, where it specifically says someone was saved without repenting and believing.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, unless ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.

May I ask if you are even reading my posts? I never said anything that could lead you to make such a statement in response to what I have written. Your tunnel vision is frustrating. If you wish to continue this discussion deal with what I actually say. Otherwise I am done. I am not interested in arguing pointless intricacies of theology. I didn't elaborate on my answer because I suspected you would do exactly as you did and focus on a few words and miss the whole point. Rather than trying to paint me into a corner, which I will not allow, show me why you think my points are wrong. I am willing to learn if you are.

 

[KEK]

show me why you think my points are wrong. I am willing to learn if you are.

I tried. I have given you Scripture as support for what I have stated. I thought that would have been sufficient.

 

[heymikey80]

Once again there is nothing in Scripture to support the concept of an unrepentant and unbelieving saved person. I have been giving you Scripture to support my statements. You will need to show me a Biblical example, where it specifically says someone was saved without repenting and believing.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, unless ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.

But there are dramatic statements in Scripture that support the concept of someone who's not doing the right things, and yet is saved.

So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. Rom 7:21-25
​

The question is where repentance leaves off to action.

Repentance is a broad term. Turning can occur within the mind or will without a testable result in our actions. And Greek is perfectly capable (and often works this way) of saying "repentance" and meaning "what results outwardly from repentance". Greek actually does this, as a language (English does too, but less so).

mlqurgw has described it before -- the Reformed view generally puts repentance not as a rejection of action, but as different from action; as its cause. It's not opposed to action, but it sees action as a result, not a merged combination, with repentance.

 

[KEK]

But there are dramatic statements in Scripture that support the concept of someone who's not doing the right things, and yet is saved.

So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. Rom 7:21-25​

The difficulty I have with the use of the above Scripture to make a valid point on the subject of this thread, is the fact that there probably is not another passage of the Scripture where we find so many theologians and Christian's on both sides of the tables who can't determine beyond a doubt whether or not Romans chapter 7 is referring to regenerate or un-regenerate man. This is one of the most highly debated passages found in Scripture.

 

[heymikey80]

The passage of Romans 7 is in the first person. It would baffle me why anyone would think that last sentence is anything but Paul, saved:

Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Controversy as to the whole passage? Yes, certainly. But controversy as to this last sentence? How else would it be understood?

In case you were wondering if that were the only thing where Christians weren't doing the right thing, though ...

There's also 1 Corinthians.

And if Christians would already be doing what Ephesians 3-5 are talking about, there wouldn't be a good reason why Paul would instruct them to be doing it.

It's a pretty clear point that doing works of repentance at the very least requires someone to instruct people what works are appropriate. And that being said it would be paradoxical to assert that a person who had not learned of the acts of repentance was not yet a believer. It would actually take a believer to heed the instruction in doing acts of repentance.