Scripturally speaking

[KEK]

Is salvation entirely monergistic in nature?
or
Is salvation partially monergistic, and partially synergistic in nature?

Please support your answer with Scripture

 

[GodsElect]

Completly monergistic

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

And I don't think any man can add to or co-operate with the finished work of Christ Jesus 2000 years ago.

I hope that wasn't a loaded question?

 

[KEK]

Completly monergistic

John 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

I agree that the verse you posted displays the monergistic side of salvation, but how would you label the following verses.

Acts 16:30 Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.

It appears the command given to the jailer is believe. To believe is to obey, correct. So isn't the act of believing synergistic in nature?

 

[GodsElect]

Actually that statement is not a chronological order statement. It is a declaration that is a true one, those who believe, will be saved.

Not, well first you have to believe, then you will be saved.

Because the Lord changes hearts so enable belief, otherwise they would be taking a blind LEAP of faith wouldn't they.

And where's the synergism in the action of the Lord giving new hearts?

you must have a new heart before you accept the things of God. correct?

 

[KEK]

those who believe, will be saved.

Ok, so does the man believe, or does God believe for the man?

Not, well first you have to believe, then you will be saved.

Can a person be saved who does not believe

the Lord changes hearts so enable belief

True the Lord must change the heart, and enable the person to believe, but who does the actual believing?

And where's the synergism in the action of the Lord giving new hearts?

There is only monergism in God's act of giving a new heart, the synergism is when the man who has been given the new heart exercises faith unto belief, since the man is personally responsible for believing, because God doesn't believe for him.

you must have a new heart before you accept the things of God. correct?

In your own words I find a synergistic act. One which you call "accept"

 

[GodsElect]

Ok, so does the man believe, or does God believe for the man?

No, but God grants faith to each one of His children. (Monergistic)

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

Can a person be saved who does not believe

No, but those who do not believe, that God may one day change their heart, WILL believe. (Monergistic)

Jesus says,

John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

True the Lord must change the heart, and enable the person to believe, but who does the actual believing?

Man does, but belief would have not even been an option if God had not changed the heart FIRST. Belief was the gift, and what kind of wonderful free gift do you not accept? And you wouldn't know it was a wonderful free gift to accept, if the Lord had not shown you this by enabling you to SEE IT first.

So if God does all these things, like, gives a new heart, gives the measure of faith, and grants salvation to sinners, who gets the credit? God ALONE.

There is only monergism in God's act of giving a new heart, the synergism is when the man who has been given the new heart exercises faith unto belief, since the man is personally responsible for believing, because God doesn't believe for him.

I agree man must believe, but God grants belief and salvation, so that no one can boast. It's all of the grace of God! amen!

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

In your own words I find a synergistic act. One which you call "accept"

But God gives the new heart and makes you alive so that you can believe which is a monergisic act.

God grants new hearts, grants you faith in Christ Jesus so then you DO believe, then rewards you with having the faith that He gave you! Now that's a loving awesome God!

 

[GodsElect]

you must have a new heart before you accept the things of God. correct?
This is how I should have put it...
you must have a new heart before you CAN EVEN or EVER accept the things of God.

Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

It says that He will put His spirit within you and CAUSE YOU to walk in His stautes. ie. repent, believe, keep His commandments, glorify God in thought, word and deed. Which is also a mono act that you will take no credit for yourself.

 

[GodsElect]

And also....
Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake. (Monergistic)

Where's the synergism in something GRANTED to you by God?

 

[KEK]

I agree man must believe, but God grants belief and salvation, so that no one can boast. It's all of the grace of God! amen!

I don't boast because I responded in faith and believed. In fact if God didn't first give me a new heart, I would be unable to have responded in faith and believe. God gets all the glory.
I believe you are seeing the monergistic side of salvation, but are either unwilling or unable to see there is also a synergistic side to salvation as well.

I assume you believe that unless a man repents, he cannot be saved. And it is stated in Scripture that God commands man to repent.
Acts 17:30 - God now commands all people everywhere to repent
God cannot do our repenting for us. God has commanded all men to repent. It is a work which only they can do. It is morally impossible for one person to repent for another. Even Christ could not do this. He could die for us, but He cannot do our repenting for us.
God in His mercy may incline us to repent (the goodness of God leads us to repentance Rom 2:4) and by His inworking Spirit assist us to repent; but before we can be saved we must personally and individually repent toward God and believe in Jesus Christ if salvation is to be the result.
Therefore, even repenting which is in command form must necessarily be synergistic in nature. There is no such thing as monergistic commands. Commands cannot possibly be monergistic. That would go against the definition of monergistic.
Another thing God commands men to do is to believe.
1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ
Once again if man is commanded by God to personally do something, then both repentance and belief being in command form eliminates the possibilty of those acts being monergistic.
Something that is monergistic in nature is given in the following manner: God says: "I will give you a new heart." (There is no command or response required from man in that statement, thats true monergism)
Once again those things that God commands men to do cannot possibly be monergistic in nature. A command demands obedience, and it requires a synergistic act from man to obey. Its the same as when I command my son to go pick up his room. He is required to go do something. Picking up his room in obedience to what I commanded makes it a synergistic act. I didn't monergistically do it for him. It's no different when God commands men to repent and believe.

It may be interesting to get responses on this from other members in this forum as well.

 

[UMP]

I assume you believe that unless a man repents, he cannot be saved. And it is stated in Scripture that God commands man to repent.
Acts 17:30 - God now commands all people everywhere to repent
God cannot do our repenting for us.

Yes, but God "grants" repentance.
It is a gift.

2 Timothy 2:
[25] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

True, God does not believe for us, God does not repent for us, etc. However, the work is all monergistic in the sense that God gets ALL the credit, for God is the cause, from start to finish.

Phil 1:
6] Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[bradfordl]

Acts 17:30 - God now commands all people everywhere to repent

Right. And:

2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

So you say:

God has commanded all men to repent. It is a work which only they can do.

But evidently they cannot do it unless He gives it to them to do so. So regeneration is monergistic, and sanctification (the behaviour that follows and is induced by the Spirit) is synergistic. I believe you are confusing the two. The Word says:

Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[KEK]

Right. And:


So you say:
But evidently they cannot do it unless He gives it to them to do so. So regeneration is monergistic, and sanctification (the behaviour that follows and is induced by the Spirit) is synergistic. I believe you are confusing the two.

True, regeneration is monergistic.

However regeneration precedes faith, and there are certain post-regenerational things which God commands men to do
1) Repent - Acts 17:30
2) Believe - 1 John 3:23

Commanding someone to do something is a monergistic act.
The person who does what the first person has commanded, he does so synergistically. To say otherwise is a departure from the meaning of synergism.
I believe you will need to demonstrate how it is possible when person B follows the command person A has given him, that it is monergistic in nature.
God gives commands monergistically. people meet the requirements of what God has commanded synergistically. I don't see how it can be otherwise.

Scripture gives us another example of both monergism and synergism within the framework of two verses concerning progressive sanctification.
Phi 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Phi 2:13 for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.

Synergism is presented in verse 12, and monergism is presented in verse 13.
Conclusion - Both monergism as well as synergism are compatable with Scripture.

 

[GodsElect]

So is it that you want to be a CO-redeemer then?
It sounds as if you are wanting something to be proud of or to say something like "But I did repent, but I did believe, but I did this and that, and I deserve salvation becuase I cooperated with God!
If this is not what you are trying to say, then please enlighten me.

 

[bradfordl]

Conclusion - Both monergism as well as synergism are compatable with Scripture.

Compatible with scripture, but not both component to salvation. Regeneration is salvation, the act of God saving us. Faith is secondary, a gift given by Him to those He regenerates. The ability to obey the commands to believe, to repent, to love, & etc., are subsequent regeneration. That's why I believe you are confusing salvation with sanctification. They are categorically different. Sanctification is a product of salvation, and will of a certainty follow it, but it is not the same thing. While it is true that you will never have one without the other, because that is what God promises and the first is what makes the Christian's heart able and willing to cooperate in the second, they are not the same.

SDG,

Brad

 

[KEK]

So is it that you want to be a CO-redeemer then right?
It sounds as if you are wanting something to be proud of or to say something like "But I did repent, but I did believe, but I did this and that, and I deserve salvation becuase I cooperated with God!
If this is not what you are trying to say, then please enlighten me.

I am just asking for someone to address how following a command given by another person could possibly be monergistic., since more than one person is involved. Are you able to demonstrate how that is possible?

I probably should have asked this before. How do you define monergism, and how do you define synergism?

Previously, when I asked you whether or not God believes for you, you said no. Then you stated; "you must have a new heart before you accept the things of God"

So if God doesn't believe for you, and if you must accept the things of God, how is that monergism? "Believe" and "accept" are both verbs denoting action on an individual level.

Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:

Please notice that the above verse says; "if thou shalt confess, and if thou shalt believe" It doesn't say if God shall believe for you.

Believe and confess are directed at man, therefore believe and confess are the responsibility of the man God has already regenerated. The unregenerate are unable to confess and believe.

 

[KEK]

Regeneration is salvation,

Two questions, if you don't mind.

Does regeneration precede faith?

Are we saved through faith?

BTW - I understand the difference between salvation and sanctification. I never said they were the same.

 

[bradfordl]

Two questions, if you don't mind.

Does regeneration precede faith?

Are we saved through faith?

BTW - I understand the difference between salvation and sanctification. I never said they were the same.

1. Yes

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So before we are able to do anything to please God, such as believe His Gospel, we must have a work of the Spirit upon us, a heart of flesh for our heart of stone, which is given us at regeneration. Then we are able to synergistically participate in our sanctification, i.e., believe, repent, allow ourselves to be baptised, etc..

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2. By grace through faith, which is a gift of God.

SDG,

Brad

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I am just asking for someone to address how following a command given by another person could possibly be monergistic., since more than one person is involved. Are you able to demonstrate how that is possible?

I probably should have asked this before. How do you define monergism, and how do you define synergism?

Previously, when I asked you whether or not God believes for you, you said no. Then you stated; "you must have a new heart before you accept the things of God"

So if God doesn't believe for you, and if you must accept the things of God, how is that monergism? "Believe" and "accept" are both verbs denoting action on an individual level.

Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:

Please notice that the above verse says; "if thou shalt confess, and if thou shalt believe" It doesn't say if God shall believe for you.

Believe and confess are directed at man, therefore believe and confess are the responsibility of the man God has already regenerated. The unregenerate are unable to confess and believe.

I suppose you might be right...if it were possible for a regenerate person to actually refuse to follow the commands. But that does not happen. Refusal to follow is evidence of non-regeration.

 

[KEK]

1. Yes
So before we are able to do anything to please God, such as believe His Gospel, we must have a work of the Spirit upon us, a heart of flesh for our heart of stone, which is given us at regeneration. Then we are able to synergistically participate in our sanctification, i.e., believe, repent, allow ourselves to be baptised, etc..
2. By grace through faith, which is a gift of God.

SDG,

Brad

I high-lighted part of what you stated in bold, to show where you are indicating that there is something we do, but not before God works upon our heart. And I agree. At the same time I see you referring to acts that we do after God works upon our heart.
In your comments you are referring to the monergistic act of God alone by His Spirit working upon hearts. The key word in your comment is "before" Then you list things we are able to do after, but not before God first does His work on hearts. The things you mention that we are able to do after God works on our heart include 1. Believe 2. Repent 3. participate in the sanctification process, etc.
So basically your referring to both monergism and synergism, in so many words, without actually admitting that both of them have a place and time in the Ordus Salutis. One last remark. If regeneration precedes faith, and we cannot be saved without faith, then it's is not totally correct to state that "regeneration is salvation" since it precedes faith, belief, and repentance.

 

[KEK]

Refusal to follow is evidence of non-regeration.

Can you please give me a Scripture which specifically says that?