Scriptural Poll: Do We Have Free Will?

[ChristianT]

Yes, No, Maybe, I'm Not Sure, Other.

Definitions and Rules:

• "Free Will" as in the ability to choose between a set of choices, and the ability to choose something because of their nature (I'm naturally extroverted, therefore I will choose to be with friends more).
  
• Even if we do have free will, some things we may want cannot happen. I.e. I really want to fly and teleport, but without technology: Aint gonna happen.
• PLEASE use scripture to justify your answer: ("We have limited 'free' will: Book Chapter# : Verse#'s").
• ABSOLUTELY NO FIGHTING / FLAMING ("ad hominems")!
• You may debate, but please only argue conflicting ideas based on scripture interpretations; don't judge the other person's salvation, mental capacity, or personal beliefs.

Thank you for posting/ and or polling. My goal is to understand Free Will as described in the Bible.

 

[ChristianT]

I'll start:
Romans 8:28-30 "We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose. For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified."

It seems like since God chose [us,] the elect, we are able to love God.

However, it seems like we have the ability to "choose" to conform to God's will for our life. Basically, what is free will? My understanding is:

"God planned out the course of history (which we are in the middle of) before He created everything. He chose out of all the people, those whom He would display His grace - mercy undeserved - towards. We can choose to cooperate with God's will for our lives, however if we don't take our responsibility as God's elect, He may/will convict you by His Holy Spirit and as His elect, we will choose to once again obey Him and conform to Him."

However, if God made a plan for everyone's lives, how can we possibly disobey that plan? Does God grant us the ability to stray from His plan, or is His plan for some to stray so that He may come to us and guide us back as a shepherd would?

 

[apocolypticremedy999]

Sigh, this is something I discuss all the time at the thread I started entitled: "Does God Choose us or do we Choose God?" found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7626505/

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I believe that in a way it's a little bit of both, for God chooses us, but based on his foreknowledge of us, foreknowing and foreseeing what kind of choices we will make, esp the choice of all choices; to accept Jesus as Lord. For instance, Christ may have chosen and called his disciples though they did not choose him, but only because he knew that they would willingly heed his call.

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. -Romans 8:29

It is our choice to believe or not, but God already knows whether or not you will believe just as he already knows every other choice you will make, therefore he hand-picks those who he knows will accept his Son.

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. -Romans 10:10

We aren't programmed robots. If we were, what kinda worship would be ours towards God? It would be insincere and forced. Why would God ever want that, esp when he calls us to worship him in spirit and in truth? Without free-will, we are only play toy action figures being played with in the hands of a child, which would be God in this case. Free-will is essenital in our faith, just as much as understanding it is, because it explains our worship to God from our hearts, why God tests us, how well we trust in God, etc. etc.

 

[stan1953]

We are made in God's image.
God has freewill.
We have freewill.

 

[ebia]

Yes, No, Maybe, I'm Not Sure, Other.

Definitions and Rules:

[*]"Free Will" as in the ability to choose between a set of choices, and the ability to choose something because of their nature (I'm naturally extroverted, therefore I will choose to be with friends more).

[*]Even if we do have free will, some things we may want cannot happen. I.e. I really want to fly and teleport, but without technology: Aint gonna happen.
[*]PLEASE use scripture to justify your answer: ("We have limited 'free' will: Book Chapter# : Verse#'s").
[*]ABSOLUTELY NO FIGHTING / FLAMING ("ad hominems")!
[*]You may debate, but please only argue conflicting ideas based on scripture interpretations; don't judge the other person's salvation, mental capacity, or personal beliefs.


Thank you for posting/ and or polling. My goal is to understand Free Will as described in the Bible.

Yes, but I don't think it's a question sets out to answer to answer - its more of a Greek question than a Hebrew one. . Rather I think its narrative simply takes it for granted.

 

[sniperelite7]

I'll play the devils advocate.

We don't have free will. Any choice we make is a product of our cultural upbringing, values, and a million other influences upon us up until that point. We never choose, merely react based upon what our influences tell us.

In either case free will or none, only a cruel God would create beings knowing full well they would damn themselves then instigate eternal torture/destruction; that or an incompetent one. Kind of like trying to conceive a baby in a concentration camp. Down right irresponsible of the parents.

*Whoops, I didn't see this was a scriptural discussion, my bad.

 

[strelok0017]

I will try to answer this in a different way and most of you probably won't agree with me.

It is evident that due to sin man is condemned. That means we have a full responsibility for our actions. I think that once we understand saving faith apart from works better we will gain a clearer perspective. My opinion is that we do have free will but it is definitely something that is pre determined. I said that the Cross of Jesus is crucial because sometimes things like predestination can drive people crazy with its complexity. God has most certainly predestined everything to take place but taking into account that our works are His works through us and apart from Him we would only sin I think that we do have free will in some sense but that free will is always bound to something.

We are free to sin but that is not freedom. In Jesus we are free but then again He is our master but this is, of course, true freedom. This subject is really hard. I don't know too much about it but we definitely have free will but is it any good? Then we would have to define this term "free" which is very ambiguous.

 

[ptomwebster]

Some have free will others don't have free will, it depends on what they did in the first Heaven and earth age.

 

[Foghorn]

I do not see scripture teaching man has free will to choose salvation.

 

[Foghorn]

We are made in God's image.
God has freewill.
We have freewill.

Just that simple?

So why does it stop there then?

What about omnipotent, omnipresent, why don't we know the beginning to the end? etc...etc...

 

[stan1953]

Just that simple?

So why does it stop there then?

What about omnipotent, omnipresent, why don't we know the beginning to the end? etc...etc...

The word is IMAGE. God is tripartite, and so are we. The Word doesn't say that He cloned Himself. We are Mind, Body and Soul, and God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Pretty basic stuff.

 

[stan1953]

I do not see scripture teaching man has free will to choose salvation.

Well then I suggest you read more and stop using your beliefs to find truth in scripture.

 

[Foghorn]

The word is IMAGE. God is tripartite, and so are we. The Word doesn't say that He cloned Himself. We are Mind, Body and Soul, and God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Pretty basic stuff.

So, how do you get free will out of image? Curious.

 

[Foghorn]

Well then I suggest you read more and stop using your beliefs to find truth in scripture.

I can say the same to you stan.

 

[stan1953]

So, how do you get free will out of image? Curious.

Because the image he personally created, used it to disobey Him.

 

[stan1953]

I can say the same to you stan.

Of course you would.

 

[Lindas Place]

Yes, No, Maybe, I'm Not Sure, Other.




Definitions and Rules:

• "Free Will" as in the ability to choose between a set of choices, and the ability to choose something because of their nature (I'm naturally extroverted, therefore I will choose to be with friends more).
  
• Even if we do have free will, some things we may want cannot happen. I.e. I really want to fly and teleport, but without technology: Aint gonna happen.
• PLEASE use scripture to justify your answer: ("We have limited 'free' will: Book Chapter# : Verse#'s").
• ABSOLUTELY NO FIGHTING / FLAMING ("ad hominems")!
• You may debate, but please only argue conflicting ideas based on scripture interpretations; don't judge the other person's salvation, mental capacity, or personal beliefs.

Thank you for posting/ and or polling. My goal is to understand Free Will as described in the Bible.

We have free will to accept or reject Christ… If we accept Christ, Jonah is a good example of a believers free will… notice God did not ask Jonahs permission to discipline him… God did it in spite of Jonahs free will… All God’s children are disciplined whether we want it or not…


Jonah Flees From the LORD
"Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me."
But Jonah ran away from the LORD he found a ship bound for that Tarshish
Then the LORD sent a great wind on the sea
The saliors knew he was running away from the LORD,
because he had already told them so.
Jonah said, Pick me up and throw me into the sea,
But the LORD provided a great fish to swallow Jonah
And the LORD commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.
Then the word of the LORD came to Jonah a second time:
2 "Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you."
Jonah obeyed
God had compassion and did not bring upon Nineveh the destruction he had threatened
But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry.
I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live
But the LORD replied, "Have you any right to be angry?"
Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered.
When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah's head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, "It would be better for me to die than to live."
But God said to Jonah, "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?"
"I do," he said. "I am angry enough to die."
But the LORD said, "You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight.
But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?"

 

[Foghorn]

stan, would you please show me "in scripture," where it is taught that man, created in God's image possesses free will, as this is one of the attributes a human creature has? Could you also show me "in scripture," and show me what we did to that image at the fall? What we lost and what we kept?

I'm really curious of your understanding here. Thanks.

 

[Foghorn]

Of course you would.

Well, I'm asking you to use scripture and show me this teaching, thanks.

 

[Foghorn]

We have free will to accept or reject Christ… If we accept Christ, Jonah is a good example of a believers free will… notice God did not ask Jonahs permission to discipline him… God did it in spite of Jonahs free will… All God’s children are disciplined whether we want it or not…


Jonah Flees From the LORD
"Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me."
But Jonah ran away from the LORD he found a ship bound for that Tarshish
Then the LORD sent a great wind on the sea
The saliors knew he was running away from the LORD,
because he had already told them so.
Jonah said, Pick me up and throw me into the sea,
But the LORD provided a great fish to swallow Jonah
And the LORD commanded the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.
Then the word of the LORD came to Jonah a second time:
2 "Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you."
Jonah obeyed
God had compassion and did not bring upon Nineveh the destruction he had threatened
But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry.
I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live
But the LORD replied, "Have you any right to be angry?"
Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered.
When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah's head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, "It would be better for me to die than to live."
But God said to Jonah, "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?"
"I do," he said. "I am angry enough to die."
But the LORD said, "You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight.
But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?"

I don't get it. How does Jonah prove free will as far as Choosing Christ for salvation goes?

Also, how far did Jonah's free will get him? It got him exactly where God wanted him.