Scriptural Poll: Do We Have Free Will?

[stan1953]

Consider all your highlights, which are facts not examples of free will in action, and consider this passage: John 1:
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

They are factual examples of freewill. I believed in Jesus' name, and I was not born AGAIN of blood, or flesh, or HUSBANDS, of man. I was born again because of my belief and the fact that I received His redemption. Both of these are acts of our freewill. You see what you want to see in scripture and again NOT what it says. John 1 does NOT imply no freewill of man to accept Christ. It states clearly a physical connotation. Or do you think when it says NOT OF BLOOD, that Jesus shedding His blood for us is NOT what redeemed us? Please stop with the eisegesis.

 

[Foghorn]

yes and as I have demonstrated repeatedly, you are wrong.



and again I am saying you are wrong,

Is that how you demonstrate I am wrong? By saying I am wrong?

Ok,

 

[Foghorn]

Now maybe you would be kind enough to commit yourself by answering my questions instead of asking more.

Stan, I would be happy to answer our questions. I should have time tomorrow, since it is late now and I have to wake early for work. Ttyl.

 

[stan1953]

Is that how you demonstrate I am wrong? By saying I am wrong?

Ok,

I feel no need to continually give you the same answers if you are going to ignore them.

 

[Foghorn]

So if there is a so-called 'fall' that is OBVIOUS, where is it depicted?
I deny what you say happened.

Read for yourself. Genesis 3.

I deny what you say happened. Christ came to reconcile us back to God. Christ is not called the second Adam, nor is He. The fact is, He existed before Adam, so how could he be the second? You may want to read 1 Cor 15 to get your facts straight.
God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, created Adam/adam.

It's obvious you don't want to consider what I say, so........Read for yourself. 1 Cor 15:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

I believe in the first sin that Eve committed. I don't believe we are BORN spiritually dead.

The unregenerrate are spiritually dead.

God told Adam that if he ate the forbidden fruit, that very day he would most certainly die, Gen 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

In Romans 5:12 and following Paul says that because of Adam’s sin spiritual death spread to the whole human race. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

In Ephesians the apostle says that everyone (except Christians who have been born again or made [spiritually] alive by God) is dead. Eph 2:1-5 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, Col 2:13.

I don't know who Pelagious is.

Pelagius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now maybe you would be kind enough to commit yourself by answering my questions instead of asking more.

will you be kind enough to consider them now?

 

[Foghorn]

Bump to stan.

 

[stan1953]

Read for yourself. Genesis 3.

I have done so many, many times. All I see in Gen 3 is Eve and Adam sinning and the consequences thereof.

It's obvious you don't want to consider what I say, so........Read for yourself. 1 Cor 15:45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

I consider everything, much of which I have heard time and time again. So Paul says the last man became a life giving spirit. Who is the 'last man'? What is your point here?

The unregenerate are spiritually dead.

I don't agree. There is no spiritual death. Death is for the physical realm.

God told Adam that if he ate the forbidden fruit, that very day he would most certainly die, Gen 2:16-17

and did he die that very day?

In Romans 5:12 and following Paul says that because of Adam’s sin spiritual death spread to the whole human race.

That's NOT what Paul writes or says. What Paul wrote was, Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned —13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
Clearly Paul says here that SIN entered, then death through sin. Just like it did with Eve & Adam. Yes we ALL eventually sin, but we don't inherit it. We inherit death. The last part of verse 13 takes into account people who die when there is no law in their life to know.
Ezekiel 13:20, "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

In Ephesians the apostle says that everyone (except Christians who have been born again or made [spiritually] alive by God) is dead. Eph 2:1-5 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, Col 2:13.

Yes dead in the same sense Adam and Eve were. No hope of eternal life. Being in a position that warranted eventual physical death, obviously. They weren't walking corpses.
BTW, I don't agree with Pelagius.

will you be kind enough to consider them now?

What would you like me to consider?

 

[Foghorn]

I have done so many, many times. All I see in Gen 3 is Eve and Adam sinning and the consequences thereof.


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I consider everything, much of which I have heard time and time again. So Paul says the last man became a life giving spirit. Who is the 'last man'? What is your point here?





I don't agree. There is no spiritual death. Death is for the physical realm.


[/color]

and did he die that very day?




That's NOT what Paul writes or says. What Paul wrote was, Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned —13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
Clearly Paul says here that SIN entered, then death through sin. Just like it did with Eve & Adam. Yes we ALL eventually sin, but we don't inherit it. We inherit death. The last part of verse 13 takes into account people who die when there is no law in their life to know.
Ezekiel 13:20, "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."





Yes dead in the same sense Adam and Eve were. No hope of eternal life. Being in a position that warranted eventual physical death, obviously. They weren't walking corpses.
BTW, I don't agree with Pelagius.





What would you like me to consider?

Ok stan, thanks for taking a look. Nice talking with you.